Speaking of taking plays off

[frash.exe]

You're hoping we hire Gruden, right? He'd have just the kind of knee-jerk reactions you want to QB mistakes.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jcpagfieg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jcpagfieg[/ame]

lol that's not what I said at all.

I love that you say whatever he's done good in the past is no guarantee of the future, while the entire premise of your post is that his past mistakes will resurface

Uh, no, I'm just confused as to why people put up his wins in the 2005 and 2003 playoffs as more relevant that what he did just 3 months ago. Jake's winning percentage is very likely to dwindle the older and older he gets while his mistakes will be exacerbated just like 99% of the NFL QBs before him. It's a little something I like to call "age".

[panthers55]

can't wait till midseason this year when Jake has had a few more multiple turnover games under his belt and people are debating which ones were the receivers' fault and which ones were due to pocket pressure because the Oline didn't give him enough time to throw and arguing all the other players who lost games while proudly exclaiming all the games Jake "won" himself.

but that's the nature of this franchise. As long as Jake's starting QB he will always have fans to constantly make excuses for him, because in their own twisted illusion they believe it's their obligation to believe in him, and anyone who says otherwise is just a haterer.

I think KT said it right a while back, something along the lines of "Jake has become bigger than the team". He is bigger than the team. There's absolutely no repercussions for poor performance. There's no knee-jerk reaction in looking at options, rather there is a reverse knee jerk reaction that just solidifies his reputation here, which isn't any better. The worse Jake does seems to make people love him even more. He turns the ball over 6 times in a playoff game and our GM decides it's a good time to extend his contract.

Us "haterers" are just the canaries in the coal mine that are trying to alert the dumbass miners that the cave is filled with carbon monoxide.

once again, WHATEVER he did in the past does not guarantee he'll do as good in the future. Brett Favre has a winning record and historically has been a clutch QB. Does that mean he should start above anybody else in the league today?

What you have written is surely raging bull. You guys are not the warning bell or harbinger of bad tidings. You guys are the whiner and complainers that criticize the team, the ownership and players you don't like. Instead of supporting the team you tear it down in the name of competition or wanting a winner.

As Kurb said earlier, it is a no lose position. If Jake does well then you can say you were a supporter, if he fails you can say I told you so. You can just sit back and wait for opportunities to criticize. That takes no balls and is quite easy to do. What is much harder is to put your faith in something and support something publically that you know might blow up in your face.

Jake isn't bigger than the team nor are any players. Jake will move on one day and will be replaced. True fans will support the new quarterback just like the past ones. Whiners and complainers will find another scapegoat and someone else to belittle since in the end that is who they are. It isn't about what is wrong with jake but what is wrong with those that whine and complain. If it wasn't Jake it would be someone else.

[Brandon]

Us "haterers" are just the canaries in the coal mine that are trying to alert the dumbass miners that the cave is filled with carbon monoxide.

once again, WHATEVER he did in the past does not guarantee he'll do as good in the future. Brett Favre has a winning record and historically has been a clutch QB. Does that mean he should start above anybody else in the league today?

Seriously what do you want the Panthers to do? It's insanely easy to criticize the franchise and it's players because everything isn't just how you want it. But it's much harder and takes a lot more intelligence to realize there isn't much we can do about it because the opportunities haven't been there. Did you want us to give up a HUGE price for a whiny bitch like Cutler? How about we go back in time and magically draft Tom Brady? There is a severe shortage of truly good NFL QB's and we haven't had access to one yet. Jake is the best we can do for now so learn to accept it, and he's not nearly as bad as you and others make him out to be.

That being said we do need to replace Jake, but the options are very limited for now. If you want our franchise to act irrationally and spend a lot of money and draft picks on overrated QB's you're a fan of the wrong franchise. If you expect us to bench Jake every time he screws up, you're a fan of the wrong franchise.

[X-Clown]

can't wait till midseason this year when Jake has had a few more multiple turnover games

Translation: "I hope Jake screws up so I can brag about having the foresight to predict it on a message board." Why? Do you think Jerry Richardson is reading the board and is going to hire you to replace Marty Hurney?

[outlaw4]

:frown2:

I'm just going to take this post off...

[frash.exe]

What you have written is surely raging bull. You guys are not the warning bell or harbinger of bad tidings. You guys are the whiner and complainers that criticize the team, the ownership and players you don't like. Instead of supporting the team you tear it down in the name of competition or wanting a winner.

As Kurb said earlier, it is a no lose position. If Jake does well then you can say you were a supporter, if he fails you can say I told you so. You can just sit back and wait for opportunities to criticize. That takes no balls and is quite easy to do. What is much harder is to put your faith in something and support something publically that you know might blow up in your face.

Jake isn't bigger than the team nor are any players. Jake will move on one day and will be replaced. True fans will support the new quarterback just like the past ones. Whiners and complainers will find another scapegoat and someone else to belittle since in the end that is who they are. It isn't about what is wrong with jake but what is wrong with those that whine and complain. If it wasn't Jake it would be someone else.

Yes. I hate Jake. I hate him so much that during the bye week I created a thread talking about how much he deserved comeback player of the year and I still think he should've got it over Pennington. I hated him so much I was willing to forget the Oakland meltdown that the defense/running game bailed us out on and still pulled for him till the very end of the season. I hated him so much I argued with a Broncos fan that he was a better overall QB than Jay Cutler. I really don't think you remember a damn thing I wrote before January 10. You know why? Because I think it takes no balls to not take into account my opinion extended over a given amount of time slowly transformed about exactly how good of a QB we have, and instead claim I was waiting for him to fail this whole time, because it's convenient for you so you can look like a "stand up guy", like you constantly do, belittling people's opinions and trying to make yourself look like the hero of hope.

I don't "hate" on players. I don't wish for their demise. All I do is talk about what is very likely to happen and just because it's not filled with sunshine it pisses people off. When I say "DeAngelo is destined for a productive and fruitful NFL career" people applaud and throw up the thumbs up, and we move on. When I say "Delhomme got progressively worse as the season went on and at 34 years old it's more likely he'll get worse rather than get better" I've got the lynch mob coming after me with the pitchforks and torches.

All and all in the end you guys use your illusions, misconceptions and fantasies to keep your faith going unabated. I on the other hand think for myself, and I see some things about the team that are excellent and other things that need improvement. I've got the balls to say what's on my mind, and because I can still love my team and I check up on our status frequently, and I think it takes more balls to do that than front a borderline pro-propaganda outlook where the measure of a fan is how highly you can speak of every single facet of the team and if not, you're a whiner or a crier and blah blah blah. I love the team and I love to discuss what's good and what would make us better, and that will continue regardless of your efforts to enlighten everybody on your misguided sense of commitment as the only way to be a respectable fan.

In the current stance, yes, Jake is bigger than the team. He's the one player by which the rest of the team willfully lives and dies by. He gets hurt, our season is screwed. There is no viable backup plan, and that's why the QB carousel took place in 2007. Our fate for next year lies critically in the hope that he can bring it all together and if he can't, who do we have to take the reigns? Matt Moore? Josh McCown? Nope, and that's what will keep him entrenched as a starter. In my opinion that is a really half-assed attempt at a business plan.

Jake will move on and be replaced, but the question is, can he be replaced sufficiently? Knowing how stingy Fox is when it comes to QB investment?

[frash.exe]

Translation: "I hope Jake screws up so I can brag about having the foresight to predict it on a message board." Why? Do you think Jerry Richardson is reading the board and is going to hire you to replace Marty Hurney?

your translation failed miserably.

keep twisting quotes and put words in my mouth to satisfy your outlook.

[Fireball77]

In the current stance, yes, Jake is bigger than the team. He's the one player by which the rest of the team willfully lives and dies by. He gets hurt, our season is screwed. There is no viable backup plan, and that's why the QB carousel took place in 2007. Our fate for next year lies critically in the hope that he can bring it all together and if he can't, who do we have to take the reigns? Matt Moore? Josh McCown? Nope, and that's what will keep him entrenched as a starter. In my opinion that is a really half-assed attempt at a business plan.

Jake will move on and be replaced, but the question is, can he be replaced sufficiently? Knowing how stingy Fox is when it comes to QB investment?

Honestly RB, I don't think that is a Jake issue. I think it applies to most teams in the NFL. QB is a singular position, therefore, there is only one player who will get the majority of reps and prep for games. It's the nature of the beast really. What do you think the Colts would do if Manning were ever to get hurt? Do you think Sorgi would be able to run the offense even 90%? I do think Sorgi would be benefitted greatly by the fact they are built on offense and have nice skill position players, but to think they wouldn't have a dropoff is naive, IMO. What would NO do if Brees went down? Isn't his backup Brunell who hasn't started a game since about 2005? Most teams just don't devote a bunch of money (or practice time) to the backup position honestly.

I have no problem with looking for a future replacement because I don't think he will be playing much more than 2-3 more years so that would give an ideal length of time to get a new guy prepared, but I don't think this year is the time to do it due to the depth at the position in the draft, not having many picks to fix a subpar defense, and having Pep tied up for like 15% of the cap. And if something were to happen this year, I do think McCown would have a chance to do a decent job, or brigde to someone else they could draft in 2010. And I still like Moore too. I guess it's somewhat a matter of if you think they have decent backups how het up you get over the issue.

[panthers55]

Yes. I hate Jake. I hate him so much that during the bye week I created a thread talking about how much he deserved comeback player of the year and I still think he should've got it over Pennington. I hated him so much I was willing to forget the Oakland meltdown that the defense/running game bailed us out on and still pulled for him till the very end of the season. I hated him so much I argued with a Broncos fan that he was a better overall QB than Jay Cutler. I really don't think you remember a damn thing I wrote before January 10. You know why? Because I think it takes no balls to not take into account my opinion extended over a given amount of time slowly transformed about exactly how good of a QB we have, and instead claim I was waiting for him to fail this whole time, because it's convenient for you so you can look like a "stand up guy", like you constantly do, belittling people's opinions and trying to make yourself look like the hero of hope.

I don't "hate" on players. I don't wish for their demise. All I do is talk about what is very likely to happen and just because it's not filled with sunshine it pisses people off. When I say "DeAngelo is destined for a productive and fruitful NFL career" people applaud and throw up the thumbs up, and we move on. When I say "Delhomme got progressively worse as the season went on and at 34 years old it's more likely he'll get worse rather than get better" I've got the lynch mob coming after me with the pitchforks and torches.

All and all in the end you guys use your illusions, misconceptions and fantasies to keep your faith going unabated. I on the other hand think for myself, and I see some things about the team that are excellent and other things that need improvement. I've got the balls to say what's on my mind, and because I can still love my team and I check up on our status frequently, and I think it takes more balls to do that than front a borderline pro-propaganda outlook where the measure of a fan is how highly you can speak of every single facet of the team and if not, you're a whiner or a crier and blah blah blah. I love the team and I love to discuss what's good and what would make us better, and that will continue regardless of your efforts to enlighten everybody on your misguided sense of commitment as the only way to be a respectable fan.

In the current stance, yes, Jake is bigger than the team. He's the one player by which the rest of the team willfully lives and dies by. He gets hurt, our season is screwed. There is no viable backup plan, and that's why the QB carousel took place in 2007. Our fate for next year lies critically in the hope that he can bring it all together and if he can't, who do we have to take the reigns? Matt Moore? Josh McCown? Nope, and that's what will keep him entrenched as a starter. In my opinion that is a really half-assed attempt at a business plan.

Jake will move on and be replaced, but the question is, can he be replaced sufficiently? Knowing how stingy Fox is when it comes to QB investment?

Your a hater in sheeps clothing. When he does well you act positive because you have nothing to bitch about and would look foolish doing so. But as soon as there is any problem you go back to your regular bitching. You are a flipflopper which is worse than just a hater.

I am no hero of hope just a Panther fans who roots for the team and wishes positive things for my team. I am a realist but prefer to see the positives rather than the negatives. Try to change if you want but unforunately negative people typically stay that way. I read it is genetic. Try as you might you are going to be a bitcher and a whiner no matter what.

You don't have balls, you say what causes conflict and cause grief because you like to argue and cause controvrsy. Your avatar says it all. Raging bull. You wear like it like you are a force for what is right but in the end it is negative crap- you argue to argue and act like it is a virtue. Being combative doesn't take balls. It is a lifestyle and negative pattern of life. Some people are givers and other takers. Some people are builders and others are dismantlers.

You call people who have faith dreamers and illusionists. Of course you do. It isn't in your DNA to see the positives just like I tend to see the positives in things and avoid the negatives. Frankly I find negative people depressing and avoid all that negativity. Being negative isn't anymore realistic than being positive. Most situations can be seen in a negative or positive light just as easily.

I applaud your efforts to spin your negativity as a virtue. As least you can be positive about yourself if not about anyone else.There might be hope for you yet.

[stevesmith3428]

http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=914&size=550x550_mb&ptp_photo_id=7396069

"damn I picked a bad play to take off"

[frash.exe]

Your a hater in sheeps clothing. When he does well you act positive because you have nothing to bitch about and would look foolish doing so. But as soon as there is any problem you go back to your regular bitching. You are a flipflopper which is worse than just a hater.

I am no hero of hope just a Panther fans who roots for the team and wishes positive things for my team. I am a realist but prefer to see the positives rather than the negatives. Try to change if you want but unforunately negative people typically stay that way. I read it is genetic. Try as you might you are going to be a bitcher and a whiner no matter what.

You don't have balls, you say what causes conflict and cause grief because you like to argue and cause controvrsy. Your avatar says it all. Raging bull. You wear like it like you are a force for what is right but in the end it is negative crap- you argue to argue and act like it is a virtue. Being combative doesn't take balls. It is a lifestyle and negative pattern of life. Some people are givers and other takers. Some people are builders and others are dismantlers.

You call people who have faith dreamers and illusionists. Of course you do. It isn't in your DNA to see the positives just like I tend to see the positives in things and avoid the negatives. Frankly I find negative people depressing and avoid all that negativity. Being negative isn't anymore realistic than being positive. Most situations can be seen in a negative or positive light just as easily.

I applaud your efforts to spin your negativity as a virtue. As least you can be positive about yourself if not about anyone else.There might be hope for you yet.

Wow, so at first I was a whiner, a hater, a complainer, now you've pulled it slightly off angle and I'm a flipflopper?

You cannot justify all your psychological jargon and come to a conclusion about how I live my life because of how I conduct myself as a fan. You are not a medical evaluator. You are nothing but an apologist who will stop at nothing, who knows no bounds to try and strip down another poster in an effort to further your opinion as truth. I think what you just said was disgraceful and shows your opinion is uninhibited and your ego is out of control. Blind accusations and insults by you of all people surprised me a few months ago when you first posted it in my direction, but don't anymore.

Don't pull the wool over my eyes and tell me you aren't trying to make yourself look better because you do. You fuging do so stop the charade. You constantly take it to the next level and compare your lifestyle to my perceived lifestyle, my entire life based on my outlook on a fuging panthers QB, when you know nothing, you know absolutely nothing about me. I don't go about making conclusions about peoples' life outlook like you do, I only go as far as to make conclusions about their "fan" outlook, and it may sound petty but that's what it is.

You say "I am no hero of hope just a Panther fans who roots for the team and wishes positive things for my team" I'd believe it if that's all you did and didn't come after me with an agenda because you don't like what I said so you have to oppress your perspective as a fan and tell me all these pathetic shallow life lessons when all you can see is the tip of the iceberg and nothing else. All you had to judge me was a negative outlook on ONE aspect of the team to come to a conclusion about my life? You are one boastful mf'er my friend.

You talk about how you have balls. Yea, it's real convenient for you to come to your frivolous conclusions about me, personally, sitting in front of a keyboard.

You are nothing like what it says under your user name, it should actually read "ultimate voice of hogwash". And BTW, if you didn't get the movie reference in my name, you can click on it and on my profile is a picture of DeNiro playing Jake LaMotta.

[frash.exe]

Honestly RB, I don't think that is a Jake issue. I think it applies to most teams in the NFL. QB is a singular position, therefore, there is only one player who will get the majority of reps and prep for games. It's the nature of the beast really. What do you think the Colts would do if Manning were ever to get hurt? Do you think Sorgi would be able to run the offense even 90%? I do think Sorgi would be benefitted greatly by the fact they are built on offense and have nice skill position players, but to think they wouldn't have a dropoff is naive, IMO. What would NO do if Brees went down? Isn't his backup Brunell who hasn't started a game since about 2005? Most teams just don't devote a bunch of money (or practice time) to the backup position honestly.

I have no problem with looking for a future replacement because I don't think he will be playing much more than 2-3 more years so that would give an ideal length of time to get a new guy prepared, but I don't think this year is the time to do it due to the depth at the position in the draft, not having many picks to fix a subpar defense, and having Pep tied up for like 15% of the cap. And if something were to happen this year, I do think McCown would have a chance to do a decent job, or brigde to someone else they could draft in 2010. And I still like Moore too. I guess it's somewhat a matter of if you think they have decent backups how het up you get over the issue.

you make a compelling point.

however, I mean, we did see Matt Cassel wasn't such a bad contingency plan for the Pats just this past year. The Eagles have pretty much been able to keep their playoff hopes alive when McNabb has gone down, and it's happened plenty of times.

But as far as that's concerned, neither Brady nor Manning are as much a liability on the field as Delhomme is. They are both wayyy more consistent and have a hard-earned stronghold on their starting jobs. Delhomme had already been starter for over 3 years before he got banged up at the end of '06, and 4 by the time he got hurt in '07. Fox has had plenty of time to get a pretty good QB in but sometimes it's the system that plays a factor as well. Leftwich played very well as a backup to Roethlisberger, and when called upon he didn't screw up. Charlie Batch even, when he was in Pittsburgh in 2006 he helped keep the Steelers competitive. Our QB play was so pathetic when Delhomme got hurt in 06 the only game we won without Delhomme was one where the pass/run ratio was something like 7/52.

When you're comparing Sorgi to someone like Manning of course there's going to be a dropoff. But Delhomme hasn't exactly set as high a bar as Peyton.

[panthers55]

Wow, so at first I was a whiner, a hater, a complainer, now you've pulled it slightly off angle and I'm a flipflopper?

You cannot justify all your psychological jargon and come to a conclusion about how I live my life because of how I conduct myself as a fan. You are not a medical evaluator. You are nothing but an apologist who will stop at nothing, who knows no bounds to try and strip down another poster in an effort to further your opinion as truth. I think what you just said was disgraceful and shows your opinion is uninhibited and your ego is out of control. Blind accusations and insults by you of all people surprised me a few months ago when you first posted it in my direction, but don't anymore.

Don't pull the wool over my eyes and tell me you aren't trying to make yourself look better because you do. You fuging do so stop the charade. You constantly take it to the next level and compare your lifestyle to my perceived lifestyle, my entire life based on my outlook on a fuging panthers QB, when you know nothing, you know absolutely nothing about me. I don't go about making conclusions about peoples' life outlook like you do, I only go as far as to make conclusions about their "fan" outlook, and it may sound petty but that's what it is.

You say "I am no hero of hope just a Panther fans who roots for the team and wishes positive things for my team" I'd believe it if that's all you did and didn't come after me with an agenda because you don't like what I said so you have to oppress your perspective as a fan and tell me all these pathetic shallow life lessons when all you can see is the tip of the iceberg and nothing else. All you had to judge me was a negative outlook on ONE aspect of the team to come to a conclusion about my life? You are one boastful mf'er my friend.

You talk about how you have balls. Yea, it's real convenient for you to come to your frivolous conclusions about me, personally, sitting in front of a keyboard.

You are nothing like what it says under your user name, it should actually read "ultimate voice of hogwash". And BTW, if you didn't get the movie reference in my name, you can click on it and on my profile is a picture of DeNiro playing Jake LaMotta.

Actually I am a psychological expert who can tell alot about people by what they say and write. Not only that but I know things about you that you don't. Why? Because we go around telling things to others based on what we want them to know or more often we try to hide the things we don't want people to know about us. There is one fatal flaw with that though. The things that you think you are hiding so well, are readily apparent to anyone who even takes time to casually read things you write.

Sometimes if you want to learn about yourself listen to others. You are actually not nearly as good a judge of your character as you believe. None of us are. We see what we want to see not the way we appear to others. Ignore me if you like. I am just one opinion. But when you hear the same thing out of other's mouths as well it is a consensus.

As for your avatar, yeah, I saw the movie twice. Do you identify with a guy who developed brain damage from too many punches to the head as a descriptor of your communication skills. Or is the striking out at everyone with little provocation that you identify with??

[Brandon]

When you're comparing Sorgi to someone like Manning of course there's going to be a dropoff. But Delhomme hasn't exactly set as high a bar as Peyton.

Then who would you bring in to replace/back up Delhomme who is available right now?