Comparing QB Robert Griffin III to Cam Newton draws laughs from NFL talent evaluators

[footballisasport]

..and its not even close. Like someone else said, RG3 is more Brees than Cam.

Atleast with RG3, it may mean the end of "white QBs are smart, black QBs are athletic" hogwash we hear from commentators.

I'm predicting 45+ on the wonderlic. I think he could do better in Peyton Manning's offense than Andrew Luck, but I doubt Luck drops.

No it won't because it didn't with Josh Freeman nor Donovan McNabb. Sadly,there seem to be a certain natural comfort in the way in which the NFL media nonchalantly throws around black and white stereotypes and the fans willingness to eat it up.

I remember Magic Johnson speaking of the media's nonchalant stereotyping of the NBA players in his days as a player. The whites were automatically preceived as "the thinkers" and the blacks were the athletic ones on the court. I remember him saying how much it ticked off a lot of the players of both races because every time an Analyst would speak of a player and what they were doing on the court, depending on the color of their skin, they would either be good because of their "quick" thinking skills or of their athleticism. He said it would tick Larry Bird off so much because he wanted to be credited for his athleticism on the court also. And I guess that is why those in the NFL sport media have continued the race stereotyping but made sure to give the white QBs credit for their athleticism while still portraying them as much smarter than the blacks.

Ironically, you have both these prodominately black sports being reported through the eyes of a prodominately white media.

According to the Institute of Diversity and Ethics in Sports, whites account for 94 percent of sports editors, 89 percent of assistant sports editors, 88 percent of columnists, 87 percent of reporters and 89 percent of copy editors.

. Let's face it, REAL change only begins when attitudes and false perceptions changes and or challenged and that won't happen if there is no real outside the race perspective.

RG III and Cam should be compared to their peers, both black and white, in the NFL. The fact that NFL media has already built up Luck to the level of invincibility by proclaiming him to be better than all the other great QBs, who just happened to be all white, based on nothing more than the automatic belief that "since they said so, it must be true because he's white" mindset, is sad. Especially since no one is really saying what makes Luck better than RGIII except for the fact that Luck came from a pro ready offense. REALLY???

[lightsout]

Gonna attempt to respond to the whole thread...

RGIII/Cam comparisons are laughable. I see no resemblance, except they're both athletic. I think Cam has a slightly stronger arm. Outside of that, saying they're even close in any way is just asinine.

Auburn had plenty on the 2010 roster. Their OL was considered one of the best in the country. Dyer/McCalebb (as a duo) were one of the best tandems in the country. Dyer and Lattimore were touted as they years best, young RBs. Auburn's receivers weren't much to write home about. Overall, I can agree they were average. Lutz was a monster at TE. One of the best in the country, IMO. Defensively, Auburn had plenty of talent as well. I'd pin that unit as a whole as an above average group.

So, what's this about the 2010 Auburn team being "average at best"?

Just to meet the status quo, *insert witty quip here*

[mav1234]

The fact that NFL media has already built up Luck to the level of invincibility by proclaiming him to be better than all the other great QBs, who just happened to be all white, based on nothing more than the automatic belief that "since they said so, it must be true because he's white" mindset, is sad. Especially since no one is really saying what makes Luck better than RGIII except for the fact that Luck came from a pro ready offense. REALLY???

I don't think anyone is saying he's already better than great QB's, they're saying that coming out he looks like as good/a better prospect. There are some who think he is the next coming of jesus or w/e but most of the media just thinks he's the best prospect in a long time. For some reason, you seem to think that means he can retire and doesn't even need to play a game to be considered the best player ever.

Back to Luck vs RG3, it's not just the offense, but Luck's size and (and this is related to that) durability compared to RG3. But let's be real here: When people are saying RG3 could go 2nd overall, is that really some kind of huge knock? Luck had two years of great play, and he was the consensus #1 pick last year had he come out, too. Any other year, there is a very good chance RG3 goes first overall. The fact is these two ARE close this year, which is why so many people expect a team to trade up to #2 to grab Luck.

[Chimera]

Chris Leak is short, not particularly athletic, and didn't have a particularly great arm.

I don't think his wonderlic has all that much to do with his absence from the NFL.

Chris Leak was an accurate pocket passer in a spread offense. But yeah, I can see how they'd pass up those Tom Brady types, especially ones that are Joe Theismann's height.

:rolleyes:

[Chimera]

No it won't because it didn't with Josh Freeman nor Donovan McNabb. Sadly,there seem to be a certain natural comfort in the way in which the NFL media nonchalantly throws around black and white stereotypes and the fans willingness to eat it up.

McNabb scored a 14. Why would that end the bias among commentators? Freeman scored 27 and he's usually called a smart young player, or something to that effect.

I remember Magic Johnson speaking of the media's nonchalant stereotyping of the NBA players in his days as a player. The whites were automatically preceived as "the thinkers" and the blacks were the athletic ones on the court. I remember him saying how much it ticked off a lot of the players of both races because every time an Analyst would speak of a player and what they were doing on the court, depending on the color of their skin, they would either be good because of their "quick" thinking skills or of their athleticism. He said it would tick Larry Bird off so much because he wanted to be credited for his athleticism on the court also. And I guess that is why those in the NFL sport media have continued the race stereotyping but made sure to give the white QBs credit for their athleticism while still portraying them as much smarter than the blacks.

I think it gets on everyone's nerves. Only recently have commentators tried to get out of it.

I remember watching the Utah Jazz - Chicago Bulls finals for two years and those commentators were horrible about it with Stockton and Malone. That's when it started bothering me.

Ironically, you have both these prodominately black sports being reported through the eyes of a prodominately white media. . Let's face it, REAL change only begins when attitudes and false perceptions changes and or challenged and that won't happen if there is no real outside the race perspective.

RG III and Cam should be compared to their peers, both black and white, in the NFL. The fact that NFL media has already built up Luck to the level of invincibility by proclaiming him to be better than all the other great QBs, who just happened to be all white, based on nothing more than the automatic belief that "since they said so, it must be true because he's white" mindset, is sad. Especially since no one is really saying what makes Luck better than RGIII except for the fact that Luck came from a pro ready offense. REALLY???

I'm not sure that the media hypes him based on his race. The media worship of him started in 2010. RGIII's hype started a few months ago. Both deserve the hype so far. I think Luck has a higher potential for busting just for the reason that the expectations are so high he can't possibly live up to them. He will put too much pressure on himself.

[Chimera]

I don't think RGIII goes #2 overall unless St. Louis trades down. I'm not sure about Minnesota.

Cleveland will get the steal of the draft if he falls to #4.

[footballisasport]

For some reason, you seem to think that means he can retire and doesn't even need to play a game to be considered the best player ever.

I think you mean, I think the so call experts act like Luck can retire and doesn't have to play. I personally am tired of being dictated to as far as these QBs are concerned.

.

Luck has NOTHING OVER RGIII and your post simply proved it. You're looking and searching for anything to help make your argument that Andrew Luck deserves to be drafted number 1 and the best you can do is use a 15 lbs and 2 inches difference between the two as your defense? REALLY?

My question to you is, why are those so called experts afraid to size up and scrutinize Luck the way they are with RGIII? Everytime I hear them do their mock drafts it's the same ish... They have Luck firmly planted on top of the draft board with quotes like "Luck is the best prospect coming out of college" and that's that. There is no explanation why they feel that way. There is no scrutinizing this kid, nothing. It's simply, we picked him and you just have to believe what we say. RGIII on the other hand, you can tell they have seriously scrutinized this kid. Everytime they talk about him, they talk about his strengths and weaknesses, and why they feel he will do well/won't as a QB.

I guess the saying that "we're all equal but some are more equal than others" ring real true in the NFL.

[mav1234]

Luck has NOTHING OVER RGIII and your post simply proved it. You're looking and searching for anything to help make your argument that Andrew Luck deserves to be drafted number 1 and the best you can do is use a 15 lbs and 2 inches difference between the two as your defense? REALLY?

My question to you is, why are those so called experts afraid to size up and scrutinize Luck the way they are with RGIII? Everytime I hear them do their mock drafts it's the same ish... They have Luck firmly planted on top of the draft board with quotes like "Luck is the best prospect coming out of college" and that's that. There is no explanation why they feel that way. There is no scrutinizing this kid, nothing. It's simply, we picked him and you just have to believe what we say. RGIII on the other hand, you can tell they have seriously scrutinized this kid. Everytime they talk about him, they talk about his strengths and weaknesses, and why they feel he will do well/won't as a QB.

I guess the saying that "we're all equal but some are more equal than others" ring real true in the NFL.

uhh, what part of "size and durability" (outside of the offense they ran) do you not understand? They are very real issues that are involved when you are evaluating any NFL position. You said other than the offense they ran, and 2 inches and 15 lbs makes a pretty big difference when you're talking about durability of an athletic QB, which both of them are. But it's not just 2 inches and 15 lbs... though let's be real, that's the difference between quite a bit when it comes to other positions, why shouldn't it be for a QB? It's the difference between being below average height/weight for the position and above average. That's pretty big. Doesn't mean RG3 won't be succesful - have you even seen that said? - but it does mean Luck has the edge there. Since the offense they ran can account for a lot of the responsibilities they had on the field (adjustments made at line of scrimmage, reads they were asked to make, etc) I did not address then, as I assumed you actually knew something about why people think so highly of Luck.

Luck's considered the best prospect coming out of college in a long time because of his total package. But RG3 is also quite good. The difference between where Luck supposedly is and where RG3 supposedly is... it's not a huge divide, but it is one. When you start talking about the level of prospect that they both are, the small things are what separates them.

You make it sound like people are pooting on RG3 and maybe it's my lack of listening to NFL Network talking heads, but I don't see that at all. Just because people think Luck is a better pro prospect doesn't mean they are hating on RG3. Did you even know who RG3 was in 2010? I mean, the guy was injured the previous year and he was still really getting back into it in 2010. That plays into this... quite a bit, whether you like it or not. Luck has the momentum from last year going, despite losing his coach etc he still performed very well.

[footballisasport]

McNabb scored a 14. Why would that end the bias among commentators? Freeman scored 27 and he's usually called a smart young player, or something to that effect.

My point was, it felt like the same script was pulled out by these sports guys everytime a black QB enters the ring.

Not really... Someone on ESPN lost his job and other apologized for the comments against Jeremy Linn. Altought I don't believe the comment was directly racist and but I saw how it could be interpreted as such.

I'm not sure that the media hypes him based on his race. The media worship of him started in 2010. RGIII's hype started a few months ago. Both deserve the hype so far. I think Luck has a higher potential for busting just for the reason that the expectations are so high he can't possibly live up to them. He will put too much pressure on himself.

And the question is, why can't Cam and RG III be the next Peyton or Tom Brady? Why when some folks say that, many folks cring as if it's a taboo to make such comparisons? Folks simply feel more comfortable comparing Cam and RG III to every black QB and will to accept them having to "prove themselves more than the Luck's of the NFL and that is sad.

That is why I said the NFL still has a long way to go to catch up with the other sports where a position isn't determined by race but by talent. And the NFL media is to blame for that.

[footballisasport]

uhh, what part of "size and durability" (outside of the offense they ran) do you not understand? They are very real issues that are involved when you are evaluating any NFL position. You said other than the offense they ran, and 2 inches and 15 lbs makes a pretty big difference when you're talking about durability of an athletic QB, which both of them are. But it's not just 2 inches and 15 lbs... though let's be real, that's the difference between quite a bit when it comes to other positions, why shouldn't it be for a QB? It's the difference between being below average height/weight for the position and above average. That's pretty big. Doesn't mean RG3 won't be succesful - have you even seen that said? - but it does mean Luck has the edge there. Since the offense they ran can account for a lot of the responsibilities they had on the field (adjustments made at line of scrimmage, reads they were asked to make, etc) I did not address then, as I assumed you actually knew something about why people think so highly of Luck.

Luck's considered the best prospect coming out of college in a long time because of his total package. But RG3 is also quite good. The difference between where Luck supposedly is and where RG3 supposedly is... it's not a huge divide, but it is one. When you start talking about the level of prospect that they both are, the small things are what separates them.

You make it sound like people are pooting on RG3 and maybe it's my lack of listening to NFL Network talking heads, but I don't see that at all. Just because people think Luck is a better pro prospect doesn't mean they are hating on RG3. Did you even know who RG3 was in 2010? I mean, the guy was injured the previous year and he was still really getting back into it in 2010. That plays into this... quite a bit, whether you like it or not. Luck has the momentum from last year going, despite losing his coach etc he still performed very well.

REALLY???

You may not realize it, but you're helping to make the argument by some that people automatically will choose their own over others with every fiber of their being. Every time I defended Cam against the criticism of his game on this site by pointing out that more "chosen QBs" like Blaine, Sam and Matt, were no better, here you came with your defense of those guys.

When I said Blaine shouldn't have even been in the top draft nevermind being chosen over Cam, you came at me with all kinds of shallow defense of why Blaine was the media "chosen QB." But in your defense, I believed you said you didn't want Blaine nor Cam but you're judgement of Cam and Blaine was based solely on what the so called experts were saying about them.Just like you are with Luck and RG III.

All I will say is, IMO, RG III is better than Luck and if given a chance in the NFL will prove it. Luck is a glorified Jimmy Clausen. The Kobe Bryant of the NFL he will not be. I will state it now.

[Arnie]

RGIII needs to get back with Outkast and make another Album...........

So tired of hearing about him. I think he is gonna be a Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust.

[HeatCheck]

RGIII needs to get back with Outkast and make another Album...........

So tired of hearing about him. I think he is gonna be a Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust.

We need to start calling him RG III-thousand.

[mav1234]

I liked Blaine Gabbert because he went to Missouri, I don't give a poo what the media said about him. Go ahead, keep throwing out bullshit you're totally wrong about. I didn't even WANT to draft Gabbert, and I liked him as a player and still think he can be good some place but I never seriously wanted him to be a Panther. Doesn't that tell you something? Of course, you don't read my posts so you'd never remember that I said there was an alumni connection in my family to Missouri that made me follow them and made me like Gabbert. Nor would you even have any idea i vehemently opposed the idea of drafting a quarterback, even though I liked Gabbert.

Gabbert was NEVER some chosen one after the draft, from his first preseason game he's looked bad and he has taken tons of heat for it, yet you continue to harp on the bullshit about how he's some chosen one. He's not. Mayock liked him more, big deal... even Mayock liking him more didn't think we'd take him #1, nor did he think he was worth #1.

As to this other stuff about RG3 vs Luck, I think they're both going to be great players and I don't get why people in "one camp" or the other act like it's some "either or" thing. Just because Luck is considered the better prospect doesn't mean RG3 is bad.

[Arnie]

We need to start calling him RG III-thousand.

Love It!!

I'd give you Pie, but I cannot yet....................