Panthers surprise Cuts and Restructures?

[CRA]

I am telling you what has been said about why he did better the second half of the year. Some of it came from him or the coaches I think. The offense was still being installed throughout the year and it took Chud time to figure out how to use all his weapons. So to say that it was simply a matter of the o-line gelling is likely simplistic. It was surely a factor in the larger scheme of the offense coming together and everyone figuring out what needed to be done.

If you watch tape of him throughout the season you would note that he was tentative early but as the year progressed he would hit the hole with authority and run with more abandon. You can chalk it to whatever you want. Coming back from injury last year, not secure in the scheme, being used too much between the tackles, etc. Lots of reasons I am sure...

Williams still had those same type games late in the year......bottled up all game and made 1 run. That one run just went for a TD more often in the 2nd half of the season.

I don't think he was used ideally all year but that is b/c of the scheme/offense we were running. That ain't gonna change.

[NJPanthers89]

If you need 3 yards for a first down in a critical spot, bottom line is you would rather Stewart in than Deangelo..Atleast i would as he gains yardage more consistantly. Thats all im saying, not saying Deangelo is a bad running back, he's nto at all. He is just not exactly the bruising running back our system seems predicated on with all the up the middle running we do. And Stewart took just as many screens deep than Deangelo so recieving out of the backfield they are almost about even.

[Ivan The Awesome]

Thomas Davis 2009,2010,2011. Reg Season Games played, 9 out of 48. Paid $14,868,000 including signing bonuses, avg $4,956,000 per year, $1,652,000 per game played.

....won't get into Otah..

[CRA]

If you need 3 yards for a first down in a critical spot, bottom line is you would rather Stewart in than Deangelo..Atleast i would as he gains yardage more consistantly. Thats all im saying, not saying Deangelo is a bad running back, he's nto at all. He is just not exactly the bruising running back our system seems predicated on with all the up the middle running we do. And Stewart took just as many screens deep than Deangelo so recieving out of the backfield they are almost about even.

Could also argue Williams would be your 3rd running option in that scenario considering Cam converted more 3rd downs on the ground than any RB in the NFL.

[I am Hubby]

We would be up a creek if you jimps let DWill get away. Oh yeah, just draft a RB and plug him in. Happens all the time...um, no it doesn't.

DWill and Stew are NOT the same RB. Please stop comparing them as such. Stew has more power, and the better stiff-arm. DWill is quicker, and uses the cut back as well as anyone. With the read option we run they are a perfect fit. Stew gets the ball when the DE or LB don't crash. If they do crash it is Cam and DWill on the outside with only one LB and a couple of DBs. Both RBs excel in that scenario.

5.4 YPC is impressive. You do not let that productivity get away. Let alone force that divorce to actually happen. Jimps...

Without the other, neither one is going to be the same. They keep each other fresh. They push each other to improve. They root for each other. And most importantly. They prolong each others careers. The Panthers need two RBs, why is it so hard to fathom the fact we have two very good ones right here at home?

Just please stop with the "Let's get rid on one of our RBs. Cuz we do not need two quality RBs when one will do." poo.

You guys make my giddy hurt. And GOOOOO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[panthers55]

He did have a large number of runs 2 yards or less. They made up half his carries.

you can achieve a 5 yard per carry different ways......and our runners did that.

You have to break that down by where they were. Between the tackles he did struggle, but around the edges he didn't. Is it his fault that the OC didn't figure out he needed to get him in space until the second half of the year.

As for whether 1 explosive run and 15 2 or 3 yarders is better than 10 4 yarders and nothing over 15 yards depends on down and distance and whether you score or not.

[CRA]

You have to break that down by where they were. Between the tackles he did struggle, but around the edges he didn't. Is it his fault that the OC didn't figure out he needed to get him in space until the second half of the year.

As for whether 1 explosive run and 15 2 or 3 yarders is better than 10 4 yarders and nothing over 15 yards depends on down and distance and whether you score or not.

Yeah, but when you pay someone like they did DWill he has to be able to be the man in your offense. Not just be the 3rd runner that requires the OC to tweak things for.

Can't blame Hurney bc he can't see the future and predict it. Hindsight, Carolina should of moved on

[CRA]

We would be up a creek if you jimps let DWill get away. Oh yeah, just draft a RB and plug him in. Happens all the time...um, no it doesn't.

DWill and Stew are NOT the same RB. Please stop comparing them as such. Stew has more power, and the better stiff-arm. DWill is quicker, and uses the cut back as well as anyone. With the read option we run they are a perfect fit. Stew gets the ball when the DE or LB don't crash. If they do crash it is Cam and DWill on the outside with only one LB and a couple of DBs. Both RBs excel in that scenario.

5.4 YPC is impressive. You do not let that productivity get away. Let alone force that divorce to actually happen. Jimps...

Without the other, neither one is going to be the same. They keep each other fresh. They push each other to improve. They root for each other. And most importantly. They prolong each others careers. The Panthers need two RBs, why is it so hard to fathom the fact we have two very good ones right here at home?

Just please stop with the "Let's get rid on one of our RBs. Cuz we do not need two quality RBs when one will do." poo.

You guys make my giddy hurt. And GOOOOO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Um, Stewart was better in this offense.

Stewart ran most of the read option stuff. Williams only comes in when they get cute with it.

We have a triple headed running attack. They don't need each other. If anything it creates a scenario where Stewart won't get what he should going forward. Williams won't be prolonging Stewarts career he will be a declining RB taking away reps from a peaking RB. And don't forget Cam is gonba spell him and should while Cam is young......Cam will be a runner until after Williams retires.

Please stop with this we need 2 1st round draft picks at RB with Cam Newton nonsense. Too much invested into RB is going to hurt this team after next season if they keep Double Trouble together. Don't need a SUPER backfield taking up a lot of cash.

Newton plus Stewart is more than teams can handle. Giving both double trouble contracts means it is going to keep us from addressing bigger needs.

Replacing Goodson with Adrian Peterson would be cool as well........but it exaggerates how investing into one position like RB handicaps a team

We are stuck with this scenario.....but hindsight thus far shows giving Wiliams that cash was the wrong move. Again, don't spin that as me implying Williams sucks. His need just wasn't great here and we have tons of other needs.

[megadeth078]

We would be up a creek if you jimps let DWill get away. Oh yeah, just draft a RB and plug him in. Happens all the time...um, no it doesn't.

DWill and Stew are NOT the same RB. Please stop comparing them as such. Stew has more power, and the better stiff-arm. DWill is quicker, and uses the cut back as well as anyone. With the read option we run they are a perfect fit. Stew gets the ball when the DE or LB don't crash. If they do crash it is Cam and DWill on the outside with only one LB and a couple of DBs. Both RBs excel in that scenario.

5.4 YPC is impressive. You do not let that productivity get away. Let alone force that divorce to actually happen. Jimps...

Without the other, neither one is going to be the same. They keep each other fresh. They push each other to improve. They root for each other. And most importantly. They prolong each others careers. The Panthers need two RBs, why is it so hard to fathom the fact we have two very good ones right here at home?

Just please stop with the "Let's get rid on one of our RBs. Cuz we do not need two quality RBs when one will do." poo.

You guys make my giddy hurt. And GOOOOO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't have two quality RBs, we have three. Cam and Stew aren't going anywhere. Cam is Cam. If Stew goes, so does half of Chud's playbook. Who's the odd man out?

It may not happen this season, but it will happen.

[CRA]

We don't have two quality RBs, we have three. Cam and Stew aren't going anywhere. Cam is Cam. If Stew goes, so does half of Chud's playbook. Who's the odd man out?

It may not happen this season, but it will happen.

Depends on how Williams contract was done......after this year could make sense. Williams will be 30 going into that next season and Stew will need a new deal.

[panthers55]

Williams still had those same type games late in the year......bottled up all game and made 1 run. That one run just went for a TD more often in the 2nd half of the season.

I don't think he was used ideally all year but that is b/c of the scheme/offense we were running. That ain't gonna change.

How do you know the scheme and offense won't change given we were installing it still in November and Chud was learning as he went just like the players. Seems to me the offense changes significantly as we went along. I suspect with a full off season to install it, the offense will go through significant changes this year.

I don't know why anyone would think that year 1 in a new system would be the same as successive years. Makes no sense.

As for Williams running I took our last home game against Tampa- Stewart ran 7 times for 88 yards and caught 1 ball for 11 yards and a TD, Williams ran 7 times for 66 yards and 2 TDs and caught 3 passes for 18 yards.

On the first series: Stewart left end for 13 and around right end for 9 yards. Williams up the middle for 14 yards, over left guard for 2 yards and over left guard for 8 yards and a TD.

Second series: 2nd possession neither ran the ball

Third series: Stewart ran once over left tackle for 1 yard. LaFell had 91 yard TD.

Fourth series: Stewart over left end for 32 yards, Williams up the middle for no gain. Stewart over the left end for 24 yards. Williams catches pass in left flat for 10 yards. Williams over left tackle for 2 yards. Ends in field goal.

5th series: third quarter- Williams over left end for 22 yards and a TD.

6th series- 1 run Stewart over left end for 5 yards.

7th series: WIlliams over left end for 18 yards, Stewart right end for 4 yards, Stewart short pass to right for 11 yards and a TD.

8th series: no runs to either one.

9th series:

Williams over left end for no gain. Shockey score from 8 out.

Vaughn and Brockel play rest of game.

I also looked at the last game against New Orleans. Again I saw very few no gain or negative plays by either guy. The only one was ironically by Stewart for -4. I didn't want to take the time to do a series by series but it seems clear when they run to left and outside they do fine. Even to the right outside was generally good.

I would argue that the running by both backs was pretty good by the end of the year and suggests good things for this year. No evidence in the last 2 games of this pattern you suggest.

[panthers55]

Um, Stewart was better in this offense.

Stewart ran most of the read option stuff. Williams only comes in when they get cute with it.

We have a triple headed running attack. They don't need each other. If anything it creates a scenario where Stewart won't get what he should going forward. Williams won't be prolonging Stewarts career he will be a declining RB taking away reps from a peaking RB. And don't forget Cam is gonba spell him and should while Cam is young......Cam will be a runner until after Williams retires.

Please stop with this we need 2 1st round draft picks at RB with Cam Newton nonsense. Too much invested into RB is going to hurt this team after next season if they keep Double Trouble together. Don't need a SUPER backfield taking up a lot of cash.

Newton plus Stewart is more than teams can handle. Giving both double trouble contracts means it is going to keep us from addressing bigger needs.

Replacing Goodson with Adrian Peterson would be cool as well........but it exaggerates how investing into one position like RB handicaps a team

We are stuck with this scenario.....but hindsight thus far shows giving Wiliams that cash was the wrong move. Again, don't spin that as me implying Williams sucks. His need just wasn't great here and we have tons of other needs.

Seriously you don't have a leg to stand on. Go look at the play by play from our last 3 games for example. We used both backs very well and both were very effective. Your dislike for Williams contract blinds you from the reality that he ran very well the 2nd half of the season and had a good number of effective runs. At this point we have less than 15 million a year (counting Newton) invested in a running game that was third in the league and accounted for well over 2000 yards. Hindsight shows this was a good move and well worth the money. When Stewart gets paid next year (2013) we will still have less than 20 million invested between the 3 of them which is no more than Brees will get by himself. Saying the same thing 100 times doesn't make it true.

[ed bell]

Both had some terrible games...but again, makes you wonder if the game-plan/scheme needed time to evolve. By the end of the year both backs were turning in good performances. Some of their worst games were in the first four games.

[panthers55]

Yeah, but when you pay someone like they did DWill he has to be able to be the man in your offense. Not just be the 3rd runner that requires the OC to tweak things for.

Can't blame Hurney bc he can't see the future and predict it. Hindsight, Carolina should of moved on

Was he paid a premium? Yes. Fault Hurney for paying guys well partly as a reward for past service when Williams made very little. Did he have to do it? No. But it is a reason that most players not named Peppers are happy to play here. Hurney takes care of his players and pays them well. Some teams players want to play for them and other players hate being there and can't wait to leave. The difference is how they are treated and taken care of. Williams was paid for his potential and for past service. It is a fault of our front office. Things could definitely be worse.