Dont count out Ingram as the Panthers first pick

[jungleking]

That's the problem - Coples meets the eyeball test but there are still questions about his motor. If Coples had Ingram's motor, he'd be a slam dunk @ 8 or 9. Ingram's been very productive in what is considered the toughest football conference in the country. No reason to think he can't duplicate that success in the pros despite his physical limitations.

Captain Munnerlyn was a good starting corner in that same conference. In the NFL he can't start because he's too small. Ingram might be a good defensive end, but the value of a top pick is the fact that it eliminates a lot of that risk. You want to avoid the guys with the BUT in their description: good pass rusher, BUT doesn't have great size; great athlete and cover man, BUT will get pushed around; good defensive end, BUT doesn't have a motor. Why pick one of those guys if you can avoid it?

"Limitations"

Hmm...ehhh...

He's ten pounds lighter and three inches shorter than a prototypical end, and he's got arms that are three inches shorter than even a guy with his frame. What else would you call it?

[Varking]

Jadeveon Clowney - True Freshman

#7

6'6

254

37 tackles

18 solo tackles

1 pass defensed

8 sacks

Same team, much less playing time. 5 of his 8 sacks were against Ranked Teams.

Melvin Ingram - 3.5 sacks against ranked opponents.

[Cat'sGrowl]

He's ten pounds lighter and three inches shorter than a prototypical end, and he's got arms that are three inches shorter than even a guy with his frame. What else would you call it?

I'd call you misinformed. He's yet to take a snap in the NFL and he weighs more than Charles Johnson, Dwight Freeney, Jared Allen, John Abraham, Trent Cole, and so on and on and on and on. He's also faster than all those guys.

What? Did you look at a picture of him and decide he's too small based off of that?

[jarhead]

Captain Munnerlyn was a good starting corner in that same conference. In the NFL he can't start because he's too small. Ingram might be a good defensive end, but the value of a top pick is the fact that it eliminates a lot of that risk. You want to avoid the guys with the BUT in their description: good pass rusher, BUT doesn't have great size; great athlete and cover man, BUT will get pushed around; good defensive end, BUT doesn't have a motor. Why pick one of those guys if you can avoid it?

He's ten pounds lighter and three inches shorter than a prototypical end, and he's got arms that are three inches shorter than even a guy with his frame. What else would you call it?

I would agree only with the statement he is not a prototypical end.He can also play tackle and is fast enough to play olb.His speed,quickness,and strengh make him a very intersting prospect.Lets see how fast he is in the combine.As for sacks against ranked oppenents he was always double teamed which means he has someones respect.

[MadHatter]

I would agree only with the statement he is not a prototypical end.He can also play tackle and is fast enough to play olb.His speed,quickness,and strengh make him a very intersting prospect.Lets see how fast he is in the combine.As for sacks against ranked oppenents he was always double teamed which means he has someones respect.

He may have played some DT in college. But, at his size, there is no way that he can be an effective DT in the NFL.

He is absolutely a tweener....but at OLB and DE.

My issue with him is definitely the length of his arms. Short armed DE's have trouble in the NFL.

[jarhead]

He may have played some DT in college. But, at his size, there is no way that he can be an effective DT in the NFL.

He is absolutely a tweener....but at OLB and DE.

My issue with him is definitely the length of his arms. Short armed DE's have trouble in the NFL.

Many have said and I agree he can ply dt in passing situations and produce sacks with his speed.

[MadHatter]

Many have said and I agree he can ply dt in passing situations and produce sacks with his speed.

I am not saying that he is not a very good prospect. But, he has enough question marks that I would be nervous on taking him at 8/9.

Now trading down a little....OK.

[jarhead]

You do realize arm length is really important for a defensive end, right?

His arm length is 30.5". That's really short for a defensive end. I'd be surprised if he went in the first round and if we're going to go with a pass rusher, I'd take Branch and Perry over him without hesitation. Ingram is a third round prospect at best and probably no more than an Everette Brown clone.

I guess that is why he is projected by most scouts as a top ten prospect and Mayock has him just behind Couples.You have physcial specimens like Couples and quick strong fast guys like Ingram.Both can bust and both can be sucessiful ie Mathis and Freeney

[jarhead]

What no "There's nothing worse than a Gamecock Homer" type of statements? Where's Nicbsball2 when you need him? Hah.

I wouldn't mind this pick at all. He's probably a better version of Charles Johnson.

I am not a Gamecock homer ....I went to UNC and like Ingram over Couples as a pass rusher.Below is his film against Auburn,

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2011/10/4/2469297/play-by-play-of-melvin-ingrams-dominance-against-auburn

[jungleking]

I'd call you misinformed. He's yet to take a snap in the NFL and he weighs more than Charles Johnson, Dwight Freeney, Jared Allen, John Abraham, Trent Cole, and so on and on and on and on. He's also faster than all those guys.

What? Did you look at a picture of him and decide he's too small based off of that?

No, I looked at a 6'2" player with short arms and tried to imagine how he's going to control blockers and shed them to make sacks and tackle. He's fast, he's strong, and he's talented enough to make up for his lack of size. I just worry about his ability to consistently perform in run and pass defense when he will have trouble getting getting into his opponent. I don't see a reason to take anyone in the top ten who has issues that are already causing people concern--it's why I don't like Kirkpatrick either. If Carolina trades back, I wouldn't mind him as the pick. Just think there are better players.

[Kuech Da Sneak]

Jadeveon Clowney - True Freshman

#7

6'6

254

37 tackles

18 solo tackles

1 pass defensed

8 sacks

Same team, much less playing time. 5 of his 8 sacks were against Ranked Teams.

Melvin Ingram - 3.5 sacks against ranked opponents.

That's because Ingram was constantly soaking up double teams, and even triple teams, while Clowney had 1 on 1. It was basically a pick your poison situation.

You really can't compare them tbh. I've seen Clowney bull over 265 TEs, and jump over 220 RBs trying to block him low, and still get the sack.

Ingram is a freak in his own right, but there's a reason that recruiting services like Rivals rated Clowney as the best high school prospect ever.

[XClown1986]

That's because Ingram was constantly soaking up double teams, and even triple teams, while Clowney had 1 on 1. It was basically a pick your poison situation.

You really can't compare them tbh. I've seen Clowney bull over 265 TEs, and jump over 220 RBs trying to block him low, and still get the sack.

Ingram is a freak in his own right, but there's a reason that recruiting services like Rivals rated Clowney as the best high school prospect ever.

Just watched some clips of Melvin Ingram. I like the kid. He is very versatile and really doesn't ever get knocked out of a play. Plays very similar to Charles Johnson. Strong as an ox with decent quickness and good instincts. The comparisons to Everette Brown are ridiculous btw. Brown tried to play with finesse and really wasn't a fiery competitor. Ingram wants to sprint and bullrush anyone around him, and seems to have a killer instinct that you need to play defense.

Looks to be a stud on special teams too, which is a big bonus.

[jarhead]

Ingram looked pretty good here. I don't know if I'm the only one, but Jadeveon Clowney caught my eye as much as Ingram. If he bulks up that 6'6" frame and doesn't do anything stupid, he'll be a 2014 top 10 pick.

Clowney will be great but he is only a freshmen.Teams chose to double team Ingram which is telling .I completely understand the knock on his height and arm length but if this guy runs a 4.6 or 4.7 it will require some coaches to be creative on just how many ways can you use this guy.The thing I like about him is SC used him as a DE DT LB punt returner etc...he appears to be a freak of an athete and the guy will get after the qb.Though not as impressive when dropped into coverage he should be able to learn how to cover TEs or rbs if he is as fast as I think. BTW is no Everette Brown..not even close.

[Riverboat Ron]

Clowney will be great but he is only a freshmen.Teams chose to double team Ingram which is telling .I completely understand the knock on his height and arm length but if this guy runs a 4.6 or 4.7 it will require some coaches to be creative on just how many ways can you use this guy.The thing I like about him is SC used him as a DE DT LB punt returner etc...he appears to be a freak of an athete and the guy will get after the qb.Though not as impressive when dropped into coverage he should be able to learn how to cover TEs or rbs if he is as fast as I think. BTW is no Everette Brown..not even close.

I'm curious what Ingram runs at the combine, this coming from someone who doesn't value 40 times highly. Ingram's estimated 40 time on Nfl draft scout is 4.82, if he'd get somewhere closer to 4.7 or better I might have to consider Ingram if we drop back a few picks. Still a lot of time between now and the draft.