Tagging Julius Peppers

[carolinarolls]

As a pure business decision, simply letting him walk would have been an absolutely stupid move :nonod:

- we would have received no compensation whatsoever

- he could have freely signed with a division rival

- we'd never have known what kind of offer he might have fetched

- there's no comparable replacement available in free agency

- replacing him via draft, with no #1 pick, would be a lot to ask

Would we have had cap room? Sure, but can anyone name me somebody we would have had a realistic shot at signing that we're really all that poorer for not getting?

To call this year's free agent class mediocre would be a compliment. Where's the value in having a million bucks if your only shopping option is dumpster diving at K Mart?

Bottom line: If we get anything in return for him, even just a 7th rounder, it's better than nothing (and no, that's not a realistic option).

anything at this point maybe better than nothing. I'll trade anything less than a 1st round plus for the cash all spring. I'll take a run at haynesworth, Cutler, Leftwich, etc. just to drive up the price or muddy the deals if nothing more. And with my cash and my obvious need coming off 12-4 I'll see what flushes out.

It was stoopid to tag him. He owes us nothing and we trapped ourselves from opportunity. You DO NOT know what could have happened on the flipside of this had we had cashe and had a GM smart enough to focus on the players that want to be in Carolina instead of one that doesn't.

As I have already said. Anyone thinking he can fetch two 1sts needs their head examined.

[Kurb]

Win win for our resident hater brigade.

Tag him: "WTF! We need $ to sign overpriced free agents that will be come busts that I can complain about!"

Don't Tag him: WTF! Hurney dropped the ball again, we have a horrible front office! All these people we are signing are overpriced!!!"

It was stoopid to tag him. He owes us nothing and we trapped ourselves from opportunity. You DO NOT know what could have happened on the flipside of this had we had cashe and had a GM smart enough to focus on the players that want to be in Carolina instead of one that doesn't.

Nice bash Hurney twice and pep once in less than 4 sentences. Not bad!

[top dawg]

Win win for our resident hater brigade.

Tag him: "WTF! We need $ to sign overpriced free agents that will be come busts that I can complain about!"

Don't Tag him: WTF! Hurney dropped the ball again, we have a horrible front office! All these people we are signing are overpriced!!!"

Nice bash Hurney twice and pep once in less than 4 sentences. Not bad!

Kurb, that's the most enlightening post I've ever read of yours!

You're getting good!

[carolinarolls]

Win win for our resident hater brigade.

Tag him: "WTF! We need $ to sign overpriced free agents that will be come busts that I can complain about!"

Don't Tag him: WTF! Hurney dropped the ball again, we have a horrible front office! All these people we are signing are overpriced!!!"

Nice bash Hurney twice and pep once in less than 4 sentences. Not bad!

as usual kurb, your flair for the dramatic drowns out any possibilities of you making sense. Do you think you might be exaggerating a bit here?

[Kurb]

as usual kurb, your flair for the dramatic drowns out any possibilities of you making sense. Do you think you might be exaggerating a bit here?

I think you get a unhealthy amount of enjoyment in the failures of the team, and a unhealthy lack of pleasure out of their successes.

[mantal]

I think you get a unhealthy amount of enjoyment in the failures of the team, and a unhealthy lack of pleasure out of their successes.

By George, I think he's got it!...

He's not the only one...

[panthers55]

Anyone who thinks that we should have let peppers walk knows nothing about business. What a moronic idea. In the end by franchising him you have preserved your options and can still decide to let him go or keep him. We were not going to pay wildly for mediocre free agent talent just like we didn't last year either.

Franchising Peppers was the only response that is rational. Who in real life just gives away something that has value unless it is a donation and even then you get a tax writeoff.

If anyone of you "let him walk geniuses" have lots of stuff that have value you want to just give away for nothing, I will be glad to take them and sell them on ebay for what I can get. After all any compensation is better than none at all.

What makes Hurney so good is that he thinks things through with a clear business mind. He knows when to hold his water, when to take a gamble and when to compromise and work things out.

That is why he is a GM and we are all squabbling on a message board pretending to be so worldly and knowledgeable.

[bleys]

I dont see how we are all so quick to call his agent a moron.

Peppers and his agent are in a win/win situation.

The Panthers on the other hand are not.

If Peppers stays he will be getting more money over the mext two years then Haynsworth. Peppers either stays here and makes a ton of money or he leaves to another team that he wants to play for -also to make a lot of money.

It's easy. I thought I explained it fairly well in a much too long post, but here's the short of it...

I have a car (let's say a '67 Chevelle) that was recently wrecked, but I think I can fix it. You happen to be at the mechanic's that day and tell me you want to buy it. The car might cost a bit to keep, but it has been a valuable car and I still want to keep it.

The mechanic at first says it's totaled, but after careful consideration, says it can be fixed. **The mechanic was only looking on the outside and until he was inside, didn't realize how easy it was to fix**

how do you figure you have the upper hand on buying the car from me when I want to keep it?

Unless you find someone to give me the price of 2 1st round picks, I want to keep my car.

Car owner = Hurney

Guy wanting to buy the car = Carey (or in this instance, he is trying to get the car to another owner)

Mechanic = Pep, thinking the grass is greener. Based on recent updates, appears he is reconsidering and that it's not as big an issue as we have made it out to be.

If the analogy doesn't make sense, please let me know and I'll explain further. lol

And btw, Carey is an idiot because he tried to strong-arm Hurney (who has never had a history of just rolling over like Carey's actions seemed to imply. On top of the Carey has only and is only representing Peppers. It's almost like it's his night job and hasn't quit his day job for just that reason.)

Perhaps that's speculation, but Carey hasn't offered me any reason to think he has any idea what he's doing.

I think P55 ended this topic perfectly, but I had to come in here and screw that up. Sorry man. :cheers2:

[Nu Guns]

Thank you for your detailed analogy:D but....I still disagree .

His agent needs to do nothing, they are sitting pretty. The strong arm already worked, Peppers will be getting paid a lot of money with this tag. Like I said its a win-win for them either way this pans out.

I said before I agree with his Hurney's call to tag him , we cant just let him walk.

The flip side of that is, he is not worth the $ he will be paid if he stays here for the next two seasons. We do not have money like the Redskins, so this really cripples us. We already paid Gross a ton of money, so I can not truly believe Hurney then tagged Peppers to actually hold on to him. I believe it was for compensation purposes, and a good move.

If Hurney, can not get him out of here then the Gross/Peppers deals were failures for the organization.

Regarding your whole car analogy- Peppers is a gas guzzler and we can not afford the price at the pump, even if he is a bad ass Hummer.

Regardless, Cars do not tell their owners they do not want to be driven .Lets say Hurney really wants to keep Peppers, Peppers has already said he does not want to be here. This about how good Peppers is, its about whats best for the future of this team. If we can land a deal for Peppers to stay here, that’s great. But I do not think that will happen.

[panthers55]

Thank you for your detailed analogy:D but....I still disagree .

His agent needs to do nothing, they are sitting pretty. The strong arm already worked, Peppers will be getting paid a lot of money with this tag. Like I said its a win-win for them either way this pans out.

I said before I agree with his Hurney's call to tag him , we cant just let him walk.

The flip side of that is, he is not worth the $ he will be paid if he stays here for the next two seasons. We do not have money like the Redskins, so this really cripples us. We already paid Gross a ton of money, so I can not truly believe Hurney then tagged Peppers to actually hold on to him. I believe it was for compensation purposes, and a good move.

If Hurney, can not get him out of here then the Gross/Peppers deals were failures for the organization.

Regarding your whole car analogy- Peppers is a gas guzzler and we can not afford the price at the pump, even if he is a bad ass Hummer.

Regardless, Cars do not tell their owners they do not want to be driven .Lets say Hurney really wants to keep Peppers, Peppers has already said he does not want to be here. This about how good Peppers is, its about whats best for the future of this team. If we can land a deal for Peppers to stay here, that’s great. But I do not think that will happen.

Carey attempts to strong arm Hurney are laughable. We already offered to make him the top DE in the league last Fall and was planning to franchise him unless he took the deal. Which we did.

From a money point of view what Carey succeeded in doing was to go along with a plan which would have Peppers alienate his teammates and team, try to force us into letting him play for another team at a steep price discount, and make this drag on for months with a poor strategy of not signing his tender. We all know that any team wouldn't snap up Peppers at 17 million for one year without getting a long term contract. So effectively Peppers could have blocked any trade the Panthers would have proposed. Look at the facts. Lucas blocked a deal this year. Jenkins got a trade to the team he wanted. Hurney tries to find win/win situations because it is good business for the Panthers as well. Players respond better to a boss they feel care about their welfare as well as the team's welfare. So trying to make Pepper's happy benefits the Panthers since the other players are looking at how this plays out.

I blame Carey for encouraging Peppers to burn bridges that he may have to rebuild. I blame Carey for giving Peppers poor advice without researching the landscape and making sure that there was a huge market for Peppers before proposing the path they took. I suspect that Peppers told Carey what he wanted and Carey devised what appears to me to be a poor strategy. You don't limit your options in public since you may have to go back on them. If the four teams he wanted don't come calling it limits other folks from trying and limit his value to anyone else. None of the four teams Pepper's mentioned have expressed more than mild interest. And when the Patriots told Carey to have Peppers sign the tender in order to get a deal done, Carey ignores it. Stupid.

This is so bush league it is laughable.

[dpanthersman]

the best thing for pep to do is hire a new agent. if had a diff agent he prob would have been traded already. IMO carey is way over is head

[Nu Guns]

Carey attempts to strong arm Hurney are laughable. We already offered to make him the top DE in the league last Fall and was planning to franchise him unless he took the deal. Which we did.

From a money point of view what Carey succeeded in doing was to go along with a plan which would have Peppers alienate his teammates and team, try to force us into letting him play for another team at a steep price discount, and make this drag on for months with a poor strategy of not signing his tender. We all know that any team wouldn't snap up Peppers at 17 million for one year without getting a long term contract. So effectively Peppers could have blocked any trade the Panthers would have proposed. Look at the facts. Lucas blocked a deal this year. Jenkins got a trade to the team he wanted. Hurney tries to find win/win situations because it is good business for the Panthers as well. Players respond better to a boss they feel care about their welfare as well as the team's welfare. So trying to make Pepper's happy benefits the Panthers since the other players are looking at how this plays out.

I blame Carey for encouraging Peppers to burn bridges that he may have to rebuild. I blame Carey for giving Peppers poor advice without researching the landscape and making sure that there was a huge market for Peppers before proposing the path they took. I suspect that Peppers told Carey what he wanted and Carey devised what appears to me to be a poor strategy. You don't limit your options in public since you may have to go back on them. If the four teams he wanted don't come calling it limits other folks from trying and limit his value to anyone else. None of the four teams Pepper's mentioned have expressed more than mild interest. And when the Patriots told Carey to have Peppers sign the tender in order to get a deal done, Carey ignores it. Stupid.

This is so bush league it is laughable.

All that may be true, or it might not be. We dont know what Peppers told his agent and vise versa.

I dont see how making 30 something million in a two year span is a failure though.:confused:

[panthers55]

All that may be true, or it might not be. We dont know what Peppers told his agent and vise versa.

I dont see how making 30 something million in a two year span is a failure though.:confused:

If he had signed a long term contract with us he would have gotten 30 million up front as a signing bonus and another 50 or 60 million over the next five years. Compare that to making 17 million this year with nothing guaranteed in the future if he gets hurt for example, and it doesn't exactly seem like a victory either.

[Nu Guns]

Peppers didnt wont the deal...what can we say. He wanted to see how the year went, and it went well for him. I dont really understand why he wants to leave....but he does.

I am glad he didnt sign that deal though.... "50 or 60 million over the next five years"

He is not worth that