Brockers vs. Still vs. BPA

[Catalyst]

I know most of us want to find a real stud at DT and Michael Brockers represents that to many here, but the more clips I watch of this guy the less I like him. I've watched several videos on YouTube of just him and came away very underwhelmed.

He gets pushed around quite a bit and doesn't appear to get good penetration. Against Georgia, Cordy Glenn (who will be a 1st/2nd rounder and is a pretty good indicator of what Brockers will see from NFL OL's) basically dominated him. Even against lesser competition he didn't exactly stand out.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good prospect, but it seems to me he looks the part more than he plays like the part. I don't see any sort of technique with him; he seems like a bull-rush guy who, if he gets stoned there, is completely ineffective.

Now granted, maybe I'm watching his worst games. Maybe there are better games out there, but I fail to see why this guy is considered such a stud DT. I came away more impressed with Devon Still than Brockers, but TBH, neither really impressed me a ton.

If we pick Brockers or Still, I'll be on board as I trust Hurney to make the right pick in the 1st round. But still, right now after doing a fair amount of research I'm just not as excited as many of you seem to be about the prospect of either of these guys being a Panther.

I honestly feel the same way about Dre Kirkpatrick, too, TBH. He reminds me so much of Patrick Peterson, who was torched as a rookie and seems like his best fit is as a FS. Now, FS is also a need for us, but a FS in the top-10? Meh.

If there's one player that really has stood out to me defensively it's Janoris Jenkins. He's the type of CB I'd like us to take; a true COVER guy, not a physical freak who doesn't have the agility to stay with NFL receivers. I actually like Jenkins better than Claiborne, TBH, as a pure cover corner.

[jarhead]

Do you think that guys like Brokers and Couples get more looks because of their physcial attributes?

[section543]

I'm with you, I don't think these guys are NFL caliber studs, they look best in THIS DRAFT CLASS. I'm not sold either would make a huge impact next year.

A quality CB or Safety(rd2 unless we trade down and get Barron) could upgrade us right now. I also think Glenn would start somewhere for us on OL.

Trade down and get both Jenkins and Glenn.

[JawnyBlaze]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing, SCP. Rarely does Brockers get pushed back 1v1, and I certainly didn't see Glenn dominate him. I saw Brockers holding his point of attack vs double and sometimes triple teams, and sometimes getting washed down by double and triple teams. But more times than not he commanded the middle of the LoS. Different points of view see things differently, I guess.

[DaCityKats]

UGA game you didnt notice that Muarry was pushed off his spots in the pocket and had to rush his pass because of the push from the inside?not only that but i watched pretty much every LSU this past year and #90 just kept flashing and showing that potential.

im not on anybody's boat right not, but #90 is one of the guys who should be considered at were we are picking.

[MHS831]

I know most of us want to find a real stud at DT and Michael Brockers represents that to many here, but the more clips I watch of this guy the less I like him. I've watched several videos on YouTube of just him and came away very underwhelmed.

He gets pushed around quite a bit and doesn't appear to get good penetration. Against Georgia, Cordy Glenn (who will be a 1st/2nd rounder and is a pretty good indicator of what Brockers will see from NFL OL's) basically dominated him. Even against lesser competition he didn't exactly stand out.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good prospect, but it seems to me he looks the part more than he plays like the part. I don't see any sort of technique with him; he seems like a bull-rush guy who, if he gets stoned there, is completely ineffective.

Now granted, maybe I'm watching his worst games. Maybe there are better games out there, but I fail to see why this guy is considered such a stud DT. I came away more impressed with Devon Still than Brockers, but TBH, neither really impressed me a ton.

If we pick Brockers or Still, I'll be on board as I trust Hurney to make the right pick in the 1st round. But still, right now after doing a fair amount of research I'm just not as excited as many of you seem to be about the prospect of either of these guys being a Panther.

I honestly feel the same way about Dre Kirkpatrick, too, TBH. He reminds me so much of Patrick Peterson, who was torched as a rookie and seems like his best fit is as a FS. Now, FS is also a need for us, but a FS in the top-10? Meh.

If there's one player that really has stood out to me defensively it's Janoris Jenkins. He's the type of CB I'd like us to take; a true COVER guy, not a physical freak who doesn't have the agility to stay with NFL receivers. I actually like Jenkins better than Claiborne, TBH, as a pure cover corner.

Good post. This forum should be about in-depth discussions and sharing of ideas. I am also pleased that others respected your position or respectfully disagreed. WHen I read this, my thought was, "Here come all the aholes who have a different opinion to attack you." You handle the topic well, almost apologetically, so that the middle schoolers on here who feast on you tube highlight clips will not be provoked into a tantrum.

I forget who it was that mentioned Janoris Jenkins. I read the interview with Scott Wright and I think he was humbled. There is a site that I posted recently that featured the success rates of different positions drafted in the first round. DT was about 38%. DE was about 38%. WR and QB were below 50%. OL, LB, and CB were around 68%.

Another comment was about trusting Marty in the first round. Marty never drafts the high risk guys--DT, DE, WR, and QB (last year, he had no choice) in the first round. Of course, Jenkins' history makes him a high risk player, but talent wise, he is the only player I see worth the 9th overall pick, unless you go OT (Reiff).

[MHS831]

You have to remember that Brockers was a 250 pound LB 2 years ago. He is learning. If you take him, you are drafting his upside more than a polished player. However, he is better than anything we have now. I will be happy with Brockers, not happy with Still.

[mmmbeans]

i mean... can't we draft a project with no experience and just physical tools later in the draft?

i really don't like projects in the top 10.

[Guest Bwood15]

Brockers is not a top 10 pick, and neither is Still. Unfortunately there aren't any defensive tackles worth reaching for, and that just isn't something we do.

I really think we are going to try and find a starting corner back. Dre Kirkpatrick has all the intangibles to be great and I definitely think he is worth a top 10 pick.

Jenkins makes me a little more nervous to take top 10 especially with his character concerns and all, could just be the past though.

[Catalyst]

Kirkpatrick can't cover NFL WR's. You want a good example, take a look at Antrel Rolle. He was drafted to be a CB and was awful, so they moved him to FS. Now he's a good FS, but certainly not an elite safety. Worth a top-10 pick?

Kirkpatrick is a name, that's all. Biggest name at a position of need from a national championship team. I didn't like Patrick Peterson last year for all the same reasons I don't like Kirkpatrick as a cover corner and, based on early results, I was right about Peterson.

If we want a true cover corner, we'd better take Jenkins, otherwise just take Michael Floyd and at least get proper value for the pick.

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

I hope we can trade down, not sure that will be possible unless someone's stock falls (in which case we should probably draft them) or another team falls in love with the likes of Brockers, Still, Kirkpatrick, Reiff, Decastro.

We have many positions on this roster where someone could be challenged for a starting role. The Patriots seem like a viable option, and though it may not be their usual style come draft day, the window to win with Brady is closing fast and they need a difference maker.

That being said, I trust Hurney in the first round and will continue to do so and will support any player who is added to this roster.

[frash.exe]

Lol jesus christ

You guys look for one bad game and once you find one you're like "ahhhh worthless"

Lots of great players in the league today got owned in college in some games

[Guest Bwood15]

Kirkpatrick can't cover NFL WR's. You want a good example, take a look at Antrel Rolle. He was drafted to be a CB and was awful, so they moved him to FS. Now he's a good FS, but certainly not an elite safety. Worth a top-10 pick?

Kirkpatrick is a name, that's all. Biggest name at a position of need from a national championship team. I didn't like Patrick Peterson last year for all the same reasons I don't like Kirkpatrick as a cover corner and, based on early results, I was right about Peterson.

If we want a true cover corner, we'd better take Jenkins, otherwise just take Michael Floyd and at least get proper value for the pick.

Here's some stuff on Dre if you (and anyone else) care to do some studying on him..

On the field, he's a prized cover man with the angular frame and reach to quickly become a No. 1-type cornerback in the NFL. The second-team All-American, also second-team All-SEC, was surrounded by top-50 prospects on Alabama's defense and teams will want to gauge his ability to survive on an island before investing in his future.

Man Coverage: Possesses prototypical size and strength combination to lock down NFL receivers on the outside. Long arms and attitude give him a chance to be very good in press role. Plays with natural bend and fair foot quickness in his backpedal. Hips are fluid for his size, opens them up quickly out of pedal to keep inside position while running down the sideline. Recovery speed from double-moves and pick plays is more than adequate, does not give much ground trailing on crossing routes. Can be overaggressive landing his punch in press, giving up inside position, losing his balance, or even falling down.

Zone Coverage: Mainly used in man, but flashes playmaking ability in zones, as well. Uses his size and length to close and wrap effectively after the catch. Reads quarterback when playing off, baits him to make the underneath throw then closes to make the interception or a big hit to dislodge ball from receiver. Uses length to knock away touch passes behind him and in front of the safety.

Ball Skills: Strong enough to win jump balls down the sideline or 50-50 balls over the middle. Good hand-eye coordination to knock away passes in front of receivers with off hand. Does not find the ball quickly when receiver turns to look, overruns plays too regularly. Gambles on interceptions instead of securing the tackle.

Run Support: Very physical outside, pushes aside smaller wideouts easily and does not back down from confrontations with larger players. Willing to add himself to piles. Good hustle and chase downfield to help teammates. Typically keeps outside leverage but will get aggressive, leaving the sideline vulnerable. Needs to consistently break down and keep his feet outside or NFL backs will evade him.

Tackling: Flashes pure strength to stop receivers and running backs in their tracks on the outside, should get stronger over time. Likes to throw his shoulder into receivers to force them out of bounds. Resorts to duck-and-swipe when unnecessary, which may work against college ballcarriers but will cause problems at the next level. Used on corner blitzes due to size/speed combination, forces a lot of quick throws. Willing to go for the strip, especially if ballcarrier already engaged. Negates special teams gunners on punts, stays with them with effort, physicality and speed.

Intangibles: Well-liked teammate who got the nickname "Swag" for his quiet but confident demeanor; referred to Texas as not having "swagger" during his college announcement press conference. Likes to talk on the field to teammates and get the crowd involved when at home. Praised for his strong will and work ethic. Won the team's Bart Starr Most Improved Player Award in the spring of 2011.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Lol jesus christ

You guys look for one bad game and once you find one you're like "ahhhh worthless"

Lots of great players in the league today got owned in college in some games

And when you consider that with the exception of the first two minutes of the video or so that Brockers dominated that game, it tells you all you need to know about some players "evaluation" ability of YouTube highlight videos.