Total Meltdown Scenario... presented by WFNZ

[CRA]

why are you people obsessed with either of these players?

Moss can no longer separate and was basically cut from three teams his last year in the league.

Jeremy Shockey can no longer separate from anything and is a glorified 6th lineman. The Panthers could easily replace his production with a late round blocking tight end.

but noooo something something attitude goo goo ga ga

this board is going to flip their shiznit when Shockey isn't brought back.....he is old, washed up, and is still an injury prone player. Any TE would have been productive with Shockey's reps last year given the system......he is replaceable. It is also easy to find someone with a poo attitude.

[panthers55]

why are you people obsessed with either of these players?

Moss can no longer separate and was basically cut from three teams his last year in the league.

Jeremy Shockey can no longer separate from anything and is a glorified 6th lineman. The Panthers could easily replace his production with a late round blocking tight end.

but noooo something something attitude goo goo ga ga

Agree that Moss brings nothing and even with your assessment that Shockey can't seperate. But he is surely the best blocker we have and better than Olsen in success rate and catching balls thrown his way. With Barnidge being largely unknown it makes sense to consider bringing him back. Olsen is the TE that can seperate. Shockey is the guy who goes down 10-12 yards turns around and provides a great outlet for Newton if he gets in trouble.

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=TE

this board is going to flip their shiznit when Shockey isn't brought back.....he is old, washed up, and is still an injury prone player. Any TE would have been productive with Shockey's reps last year given the system......he is replaceable. It is also easy to find someone with a poo attitude.

Actually the numbers above show he was the 20th most productive TE in the league. Sure that isn't top 10 but certainly not old and washed up. He played 15 games last season which belies the injury prone label. The issue is not whether we want him back but at what price. If you argued that at 4 million dollars we could find a cheaper alternative or that Barnidge should be given a shot given how much cheaper he is at this point and he is already signed, you would have a valid argument.

[CRA]

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=TE

Actually the numbers above show he was the 20th most productive TE in the league. Sure that isn't top 10 but certainly not old and washed up. He played 15 games last season which belies the injury prone label. The issue is not whether we want him back but at what price. If you argued that at 4 million dollars we could find a cheaper alternative or that Barnidge should be given a shot given how much cheaper he is at this point and he is already signed, you would have a valid argument.

In a TE heavy scheme, an old and washed up player can be productive......Shockey was. Need to find a younger Shockey as Olsen is still more of a WR.

and Shockey is injury prone. Putting in a healthy year doesn't mean that tag gets removed. Not this late in his career. He has been banged up his entire career.

[SOJA]

why the fug does everyone want Randy Moss? The guy was horrible on his last two teams. He is a locker room cancer. I'd rather take my chances with a younger guy who fits the Randy Moss mold, lets say uhhhhh David Gettis

[OneBadassCat]

I guess Moss could be insurance for Gettis but Gettis could probably absolutely burn Randy Moss speed wise now.

[CarolinaNCSU]

How can people be hating on Shockey? He saved Hartsock's life!

You people don't love America.

[CRA]

How can people be hating on Shockey? He saved Hartsock's life!

You people don't love America.

I am not hating on Shockey as he was a good pickup. A vet TE was a great signing given what we were doing.

but Shockey isn't anything special at this point....and we could use a younger and better version.

[panthers55]

In a TE heavy scheme, an old and washed up player can be productive......Shockey was. Need to find a younger Shockey as Olsen is still more of a WR.

and Shockey is injury prone. Putting in a healthy year doesn't mean that tag gets removed. Not this late in his career. He has been banged up his entire career.

Again your characterization that he is old and washed up is far from accurate. His YPA is the second best in his career and better than Olsen who was helped by some long passes. He caught a higher percentage of passes thrown his way compared to Olsen. He played 15 games which is the same number Olsen played. Is Olsen injury prone?

In the last 3 years when he is supposedly old and more injury prone Shockey missed a total of 7 games out of a possible 48. Compare that to Jordan Gross who has missed 8 games over that time and is also 31. So is Gross old and washed up??

Again stick to value arguments for the price. If you don't consider the signing cost, then you bring him back. At 31 he is not that old for a TE who never had speed as his specialty.

[csx]

Jeremy Shockey can no longer separate from anything and is a glorified 6th lineman. The Panthers could easily replace his production with a late round blocking tight end.

Shockey isn't a world beater in any way, but that is retarded and I'm pretty sure you know that too

[CRA]

Again your characterization that he is old and washed up is far from accurate. His YPA is the second best in his career and better than Olsen who was helped by some long passes. He caught a higher percentage of passes thrown his way compared to Olsen. He played 15 games which is the same number Olsen played. Is Olsen injury prone?

In the last 3 years when he is supposedly old and more injury prone Shockey missed a total of 7 games out of a possible 48. Compare that to Jordan Gross who has missed 8 games over that time and is also 31. So is Gross old and washed up??

Again stick to value arguments for the price. If you don't consider the signing cost, then you bring him back. At 31 he is not that old for a TE who never had speed as his specialty.

Jeremy Shockey has been banged up his entire career.....again, putting in work last season doesn't suddenly erase the fact he gets banged up fairly easily. Also, looking at a stat sheet and simply looking at games played.......is a poor counter arguement that he isn't injury prone. He rarely was healthy in those season despite getting into games.

Sports Illustrated even put him on the All Injury team for his career as recent as when he was with NO.

Shockey at this point is nothing special. You don't have to agree with it. Any TE would have had good production in Shockey's role last year.

[panthers55]

Jeremy Shockey has been banged up his entire career.....again, putting in work last season doesn't suddenly erase the fact he gets banged up fairly easily. Also, looking at a stat sheet and simply looking at games played.......is a poor counter arguement that he isn't injury prone. He rarely was healthy in those season despite getting into games.

Sports Illustrated even put him on the All Injury team for his career as recent as when he was with NO.

Shockey at this point is nothing special. You don't have to agree with it. Any TE would have had good production in Shockey's role last year.

Looking at a stat sheet and game played beats the hell out of making generalizations with no fact basis at all to justify the remark. He isn't injury prone unless you think guys like Gross are injury prone as well.

As for production last year, Shockey as a function of balls thrown his way was more productive than Olsen. That is fact not speculaton.

As for Sports Illustrated, they need to stick to swim suit models, that is all I will say about them.

[CRA]

Looking at a stat sheet and game played beats the hell out of making generalizations with no fact basis at all to justify the remark. He isn't injury prone unless you think guys like Gross are injury prone as well.

As for production last year, Shockey as a function of balls thrown his way was more productive than Olsen. That is fact not speculaton.

As for Sports Illustrated, they need to stick to swim suit models, that is all I will say about them.

Watching guys play beats looking at stat sheets. I unfortunately have Giant fans in the family. If you have watched Shockey throughout his career......there is simply no arguing he has been injury prone throughout his career. If you haven't watched Shockey.....I guess you could look at game logs and argue it.

like I said, any TE in Shockey's role last year would have been productive. Whoever is in it next year will be as well.

[Ruff]

Shockey at this point is nothing special. You don't have to agree with it. Any TE would have had good production in Shockey's role last year.

They may be able to put up the same production as Shockey, but they don't bring what Shockey brings to the team. Rivera said during the season that Shockey became one of the leaders, one of the no-quit guys that Cam wants in the locker-room.

After Cam has stated publicly multiple times that he wants no-quit players with an attitude of wanting to win, you go an release Shockey, a guy who has been called a no-quit, I want to win player? Imagine how Cam will feel.

And don't give me any of that "it's a team game". From here on out, Cam is the most vital piece to our team. Keeping him happy is going to be the best thing that we can do until his next contract is up. As Cam goes, we go.

[CRA]

They may be able to put up the same production as Shockey, but they don't bring what Shockey brings to the team. Rivera said during the season that Shockey became one of the leaders, one of the no-quit guys that Cam wants in the locker-room.

After Cam has stated publicly multiple times that he wants no-quit players with an attitude of wanting to win, you go an release Shockey, a guy who has been called a no-quit, I want to win player? Imagine how Cam will feel.

And don't give me any of that "it's a team game". From here on out, Cam is the most vital piece to our team. Keeping him happy is going to be the best thing that we can do until his next contract is up. As Cam goes, we go.

I think Cam will be happy w/ a younger and more athletic TE. The type of everydown TE Chud has said from day 1 he wants to find and bring to Carolina.

I like Shockey's attitude.