Position by Position analysis

[rayzor]

you seriously just made a comparison of ron edwards to mario williams? :lol:

sorry...not going to continue that discussion.

So if we signed Mario Williams we should not count on him because he's an unknown commodity since he has never played for us? Thats very extreme I know but just wanted to solidify the point.

I can agree that it's hard to say what we have for sure at DT. I at least want to give the rookies a chance to prove themselves and same for Ron Edwards. We obviously thought highly of him since he was the biggest target form another team in last years free agency other than Mare.

I am not willing to write the rookies off yet either.. I did not keep track of who was guilty of it but many on here called Lafell; Lafail, baby hands, bla bla. Now look at everyone singing his praises. He was a 3rd round pick just like Fua and Mcclain. So thats an example of why I am in favor of giving them one more shot. If DT was the only position of concern on the team then I would think differently.

And yes Ron Edwards is 31, he can not play forever but I think the next/final 2 years of his contract are a reasonable expectation.

[CRA]

Sherrod has gotten progressively worst over the last 2 years. Everyone has given him a pass until the last few games of last year. The obvious stinker against New Orleans was the eye opener for most people. Godfrey has gotten better every year. People keep waiting on him to be Troy Polamalu are never going to be happy, but Godfrey is a good player. Martin is not.

Godfrey has the potential to be a good player.......however, he has never earned that title on the field.

he was one of the worst tacklers in the NFL at his position last year.

[Kurb]

Godfrey has the potential to be a good player.......however, he has never earned that title on the field.

he was one of the worst tacklers in the NFL at his position last year.

link?

[frash.exe]

Newsflash: our DTs suck as a unit right now

It's just about the only place we don't have anybody that was drafted before the third round

[frash.exe]

Like, seriously, i think both fua and mcclain have some upside, but i'd rather shave my balls with a shard of glass than see them start week one in 2012.

[jarhead]

Like, seriously, i think both fua and mcclain have some upside, but i'd rather shave my balls with a shard of glass than see them start week one in 2012.

I would hate to see that happen

[CRA]

link?

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/25/2011-tackling-the-safeties/

Godfrey had the 77th best tackling efficency in 2011 of NFL Safties.

[MadHatter]

he's a starter because he's getting starter money? sorry. bad reasoning. keep money out of the equation. size of contract does not equate to quality.

he is an unknown commodity here, despite what he did elsewhere.

DT is far from solid until proven otherwise. no way should they act as if this is a position that is settled.

Yet, you want to hang your hopes on a rookie who has never played a down in the NFL.

I don't see a Suh type dominant DT in this draft. I would rather sign a player like Garay in FA to completely solidify the DT position.....Garay and Edwards...with Fua and McClain given time to develop.

[rayzor]

Newsflash: our DTs suck as a unit right now

It's just about the only place we don't have anybody that was drafted before the third round

until proven otherwise...this is true.

Yet, you want to hang your hopes on a rookie who has never played a down in the NFL.

I don't see a Suh type dominant DT in this draft. I would rather sign a player like Garay in FA to completely solidify the DT position.....Garay and Edwards...with Fua and McClain given time to develop.

let's see....go with two north of 30 DTs who have less than spectacular history other than being solid (though that would be an upgrade for the immediate future) or going after someone young with potential and a future who could anchor the Dline for the next 10 years...sorry. i'm going to swing for the fences and take the long view here.

oh...

I don't see a Suh type dominant DT in this draft. I would rather sign a player like Garay in FA to completely solidify the DT position..

i remember seeing the same arguments against taking a QB last year.

and you don't see a dominant Suh type DT in this draft so we shouldn't take one? :lol: there would be probably one DT taken in the first round a decade if that was the qualifier.

meh....

[panther4life]

you seriously just made a comparison of ron edwards to mario williams? :lol:

sorry...not going to continue that discussion.

I clearly did not compare their skill set. You said Ron Edwards "is an unknown commodity here despite what he did elsewhere".

I made an analogy using a big name player so that you could better understand how silly your statement was. fyi-we signed him to the contract he got because of what he did elsewhere.

I know that you are obsessed with Brockers. This is making it impossible for you to have a rationale discussion with me since I stated I do not like the idea of taking Brockers in the first. Sucks becaus

the cost of your average player by position:

DE is 1.58/per year

DT is 1.22/per year(Ron Edwards got 2.75)

CB is 1.19/ per year

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/avera...-position.html

thats for average players and now here is franchise players(2012 Franchise tag cost):

DE-10.6/per year

CB-10.6/per year

DT-7.9/per year

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-board-in-2012

So across the NFL DE'S AND CB'S are paid more than DT'S.

We have 1 DT who can suffice as a solid starter for i'd say at least 2 more years.(Ron Edwards). We have 2 rookies that will likely get better as 2nd year players like Lafell did. Oh and that reminds me you said this in the draft forum

yeah, i guess we need to be content with having NO real quality starter in the middle of the Dline.

just throw any average 3rd rounder or 30 year old DT in there and we'll be fine.

Do you realize that Charles Johnson was a 3rd rounder, Steve Smith and over was a 3rd rounderand over 30, Lafell was a 3rd rounder, Godfrey was a 3rd rounder, James Anderson was a 3rd rounder and not a single of those defensive players were studs in their first year. They all struggled but now are part of the core of our D.

If you want to give up on someone lets start with Munnerlyn 3 year vet and then move on to Hardy 2 year vet. They have had more time and chances to prove they are worth starting spots.

Last year the front office telegraphed going into the season (before injuries)that they were not happy with going into the season with Hardy and Munnerlyn starting. They tried to get Alex Brown for DE, ended up settling for Applewhite in early October. They were rumored like hell to be going after Samuel and pounced on the opportunity to pick up Darius Butler when he was waived.

[CRA]

We have 1 DT who can suffice as a solid starter for i'd say at least 2 more years.(Ron Edwards). We have 2 rookies that will likely get better as 2nd year players like Lafell did. Oh and that reminds me you said this in the draft forum

.

it is very generous to pencil in Ron Edwards as someone who will be a solid starter for us for 2 seasons to come. He has never played a down here, is coming off an injury........and by the time he steps back on a football field he simply might not be good.

LaFell showed moments/flashes as a rookie......much more so than someone like Fua. I'd be surprised if both Fua/McClain are on our roster next season. They were given a a shot. Rivera seems very willing to do that. Rookie or no rookie.....neither showed much.

[rayzor]

I want whoever is going to make us dominant out front or the biggest playmaker possible on defense. I want the Dline to be dominant all across and i want us to have the best players possible.

it doesn't have to be brockers. we can't piss around and think we can just throw any old or mid range draft pick in there and hope he can eventually have charles johnson type success.

when you settle for mediocrity on the Dline (or anywhere), that is exactly what you are going to get. when you're hope is that 'maybe this guy i picked up late is a diamond in the rough and will fix this spot' then you are more than likely going to struggle.

my thoughts are to fix the DLine and the rest of the defense will benefit. my thoughts are that we have used scraps to try and fix DT and have struggled there as a result. i don't care what anyone else thinks on the matter or what kind of cost benefit salary cap crap someone can throw out or success rate trends of other DTs taken in the first.

you get the best players possible to fix the weakest positions on the team. until proven otherwise, the interior of the Dline is the weak link on the defense because we have no one that has proven themselves. sure...hardy has struggled, but we have CJ on the other side. sure....captain has struggled but we have gamble on the other side. should we be content with that? nope. in fact i hope that we can fix those spots this year or next. as it stands, though, the position that we have no one of proven starter quality there is DT. call edwards proven if you want but he's a year older and could very well be damaged goods now and i don't want to settle with that and fua and mcclain as our main options going forward.

if we can get a potentially dominant CB or DE instead of DT with that first pick, fine. i'll be more than happy with that. but to bury our heads in the sand and say that DT is "fine" is naive.

[rayzor]

it is very generous to pencil in Ron Edwards as someone who will be a solid starter for us for 2 seasons to come. He has never played a down here, is coming off an injury........and by the time he steps back on a football field he simply might not be good.

LaFell showed moments/flashes as a rookie......much more so than someone like Fua. I'd be surprised if both Fua/McClain are on our roster next season. They were given a a shot. Rivera seems very willing to do that. Rookie or no rookie.....neither showed much.

agreed.

[panther4life]

I want whoever is going to make us dominant out front or the biggest playmaker possible on defense. I want the Dline to be dominant all across and i want us to have the best players possible.

it doesn't have to be brockers. we can't piss around and think we can just throw any old or mid range draft pick in there and hope he can eventually have charles johnson type success.

when you settle for mediocrity on the Dline (or anywhere), that is exactly what you are going to get. when you're hope is that 'maybe this guy i picked up late is a diamond in the rough and will fix this spot' then you are more than likely going to struggle.

my thoughts are to fix the DLine and the rest of the defense will benefit. my thoughts are that we have used scraps to try and fix DT and have struggled there as a result. i don't care what anyone else thinks on the matter or what kind of cost benefit salary cap crap someone can throw out or success rate trends of other DTs taken in the first.

you get the best players possible to fix the weakest positions on the team. until proven otherwise, the interior of the Dline is the weak link on the defense because we have no one that has proven themselves. sure...hardy has struggled, but we have CJ on the other side. sure....captain has struggled but we have gamble on the other side. should we be content with that? nope. in fact i hope that we can fix those spots this year or next. as it stands, though, the position that we have no one of proven starter quality there is DT. call edwards proven if you want but he's a year older and could very well be damaged goods now and i don't want to settle with that and fua and mcclain as our main options going forward.

if we can get a potentially dominant CB or DE instead of DT with that first pick, fine. i'll be more than happy with that. but to bury our heads in the sand and say that DT is "fine" is naive.

I never said its fine but I do however rate it as a lower priority than DE or CB.

Look it this way, do you think Munnerlyn a 3 year vet has a better chance of improving over Fua and Mcclain? As rookies Fua/Mcclain performed better against the run than Hardy did as a 2nd year player.

Can you argue with a straight face that DT is more to blame than Captain for our suckage on pass defense? Can you argue that DT is more to blame for our suckage against the run than Hardy? The stats wont back you up on that.

So one more time Hardy gave up 5.62 ypc when ran at him. When running up the middle vs 4.53 up the middle with Edwards and Beason out with injuries. Charles Johnson gave up 3.96 ypc.

Then you have Captain Munneryln who had the leauges highest completion percentage 73.8% when thrown his way vs 45% completion rate when throwing at Gamble( who mainly covered # 1's).

Then qb rating against Captain was 126.9 (2nd worst in entire league) and Gambles of 53.3(third best in the league).

We can not possibly upgrade every postition that is need or could use it this offseason. We can however improve the weakest links on D (Munnerlyn and Hardy) and give the rookies and Edwards one more year to prove themselves.