Jason Peters plus or Jeff Otah?

[Fiz]

Let's just say you got broadsided and bested and move on...

yeah that's exactly what happened you saw through my intention-less hypothetical in a thread about that exact same hypothetical

YOU REALLY PULLED BACK THE CURTAIN HERE

[rayzor]

[Fiz]

Alright stats for the offensive lines right here because AK is going to try to find these but fail.

from LE - LT - G/C - RT - RE

4.18, 4.12, 4.31, 4.64, 4.27

as you can see, from this it would indicate that the actual best blocker was Otah. However, though these stats are kind of cool, they don't take a lot of things into consideration (TE set up, Fullback, Guards/Centers pulling, defensive formation, personnel, etc). While FO tries, there's really no way to normalize football stats totally like baseball equivalents like VoRP (value over replacement player) or ERA+ (ERA adjusted to period, hitters, and ballpark over all time which is really fuging cool). so to elaborate on that you'd have to figure out what DTs or DEs average for push on every play, then apply player specific push vs block across the board on a per play basis, then normalize it, and by then your brain would have started to hemorrhage

Also, all of the Panthers' offensive run blocking yards are heavily skewed by DeAngelo's ability to break deep ones. As good as the line is, after Williams passes the linebackers on most runs, the linemen have very little to do with it anymore. So for example maybe DeAngelo is more comfortable running to his right than his left, or maybe Moose was line up on the right side on his big runs, etc etc.

A little more telling, I feel, is the Panthers run breakdown. The Panthers ran to the left end more than the right, though the difference is negligible. Really it just looks like the real strength of the Panthers was straight up the middle, which would go back to what I was saying about Wharton and Kalil, with the man no one has mentioned, Vincent

But of course football is much more complicated than Baseball and these kinds of stats, while fun, can't really be applied strictly because there's just too much going on on every single play.

I guess it goes back to my original post when I basically said I had no evidence and it was essentially anecdotal observation but hey everyone sees/wants to see something different so whatev

[mantal]

yeah that's exactly what happened you saw through my intention-less hypothetical in a thread about that exact same hypothetical

YOU REALLY PULLED BACK THE CURTAIN HERE

Yes, yes I did...

[Fiz]

hey hey otah average .3 more yards per carry on his side than did Peters last year

[mantal]

hey hey otah average .3 more yards per carry on his side than did Peters last year

Hey hey, Algie Crumpler had .3 yards after catch than Jeff King, but everybody was ready to throw King out the window and go after Crumpler for many millions more. Let's try to get real here...

[Fiz]

Hey hey, Algie Crumpler had .3 yards after catch than Jeff King, but everybody was ready to throw King out the window and go after Crumpler for many millions more. Let's try to get real here...

people on here are stupid.

for example

[Squirrel]

My biggest problem was taking stewart 13th. If they where high on Otah they should have taken him there and could have gotten either Forte, Rice or Slaton later in the rounds. Giving up the fourth cost us a FB in Schmitt that could have replaced Hoover.

[mantal]

people on here are stupid.

for example

I'm saying there may be another option, and there is...

[Woodie]

My biggest problem was taking stewart 13th. If they where high on Otah they should have taken him there and could have gotten either Forte, Rice or Slaton later in the rounds. Giving up the fourth cost us a FB in Schmitt that could have replaced Hoover.

I think the reason they did it was because they still had some questions about Williams' ability to be an every down back, and felt Stewart was one of those backs that can be special in this league...and he happened to be an excellent fit for the kind of offense they wanted to start running again.

With that said, when the pick was made I was none too happy since Otah was the guy I had targeted in the draft. I just felt that with a return to the power game, and our desperate need for a quality OT combined with the report of him being a monster that will maul defenders made him an ideal fit for the Panthers.

But all ended well, and now I'm happy.

[mr beauxjangles]

I started this monumental multi-quote response, but got tired of writing it. Lots of good discussion here, although I usually hate these hypotheticals.

Take a look at this if you haven't seen it already. (And no this isn't an endorsement of Florio...he's a turd most of the time.)

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/19/peters-didnt-know-he-gave-up-115-sacks-last-year/

Two thoughts:

1) Given all the positives about Otah that others have already mentioned, and cosidering this article, would you still prefer the Eagles package over Otah?

2) Maybe the Eagles would be interested in Peppers after all...

[Squirrel]

Stewart was not even in the top 5 of rookie RB's Yes it is hindsight but everybody knew last years RB class was deep and Stewart had questions about his foot.

[rayzor]

Stewart was not even in the top 5 of rookie RB's Yes it is hindsight but everybody knew last years RB class was deep and Stewart had questions about his foot.

TDs 1st with 10 (tied)

Carries 5th (11.5/game)

Yards per game 5th (among RBs with 100 or more carries per game)

Rush Yards 5th

1st downs 5th

you know who was in the top 5 with him? RBs who were the primary RBs on their teams.

Matt Forte...19.8 carries per game

Steve Slaton...16.8 carries per game

Chris Johnson...16.7 carries per game

Kevin Smith....14.9 carries per game

Jonathon Stewart....11.5 carries per game

Stewart was the backup and still hung with them. Had he been given the same amount of opportunities that they had, especially that forte had, he would have blown them away.

stewart with 19.8 carries per game, based on his production this past year (with a questionable foot) would have looked like this:

316 carries(what forte had)/1422 yards (@4.5/att) /17 TDs (yeah, he scored a TD with every 14.8 carries)

forte...316/1238/8

now if you are going to say, "you can't make that comparison because they were in different situations" then what would be the standard by which you judged that stewart wasn't even in the top 5 of rookie RBs?

[SorthNarolina]

TDs 1st with 10 (tied)

Carries 5th (11.5/game)

Yards per game 5th (among RBs with 100 or more carries per game)

Rush Yards 5th

1st downs 5th

you know who was in the top 5 with him? RBs who were the primary RBs on their teams.

Matt Forte...19.8 carries per game

Steve Slaton...16.8 carries per game

Chris Johnson...16.7 carries per game

Kevin Smith....14.9 carries per game

Jonathon Stewart....11.5 carries per game

Stewart was the backup and still hung with them. Had he been given the same amount of opportunities that they had, especially that forte had, he would have blown them away.

stewart with 19.8 carries per game, based on his production this past year (with a questionable foot) would have looked like this:

316 carries(what forte had)/1422 yards (@4.5/att) /17 TDs (yeah, he scored a TD with every 14.8 carries)

forte...316/1238/8

now if you are going to say, "you can't make that comparison because they were in different situations" then what would be the standard by which you judged that stewart wasn't even in the top 5 of rookie RBs?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: