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Pat White in the second round for Panthers?

Kevin Greene

By Kevin Greene,
in Carolina Panthers

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King Taharqa Newbie

King Taharqa

Posted
Posted

He took a team that was expected to finish last in the NFC South and he helped take them to the playoffs and put up a better QB rating in his first season than Vick did in any season with the same receivers. The same receivers who supposedly sucked and were the reason that Vick wasn't dominating the NFL.

So Matt Ryan gets all the credit for Roddy White emerging as a pro bowl receiver but Vick gets no credit for 2 time all pro TE Alge Crumpler?

And again, you can't make up your mind... you want the QB to put up pretty stats in a later post, but you're arguing here that where a quarterback gets you matters. Jake's done more than Vick, but you would probably rather have Vick in a Panthers uniform starting behind center next season. Same for VY. You defend both of these guys but give Matt Ryan or Jake Delhomme no credit (hmmmm).

I would probably rather have Pat White than Jake. And thats what I stated X-Clown. Funny how people use the Vicks and Vince Youngs to scare people away from an athletic QB like Pat White, but dont use the Todd Marinoviches and Kerry Collins to scare folks away from the stationary pocket passers. You hear Manning and Brady, Manning and Brady. The upside is always given the benefit of the doubt, while a QB with athletic ability is seen as having no upside.

There's a difference between safe and smart. Our franchise has taken risks before aka Sean Gilbert, Jeff Lewis, and they haven't worked out so well. They took a risk last year by trading this year's first rounder and moving up to improve the offense, a gamble which paid off. But at the same time the defense slipped, and it's obvious we are going to have to improve that side of the ball if we are going to win anything.

Then improve the defense, but you dont do that by reaching on a 2nd round pick just because you need help in that area.

Excuse my french, but that is probably the biggest bunch of fuging horsepoo argument I've ever seen posted on this board and that's saying something given the weekly threads of changing to a 3-4, and trolls from other boards popping in. Find me one article or link from a Peppers quote that says anything close to that, and I'll rescind my statement. Otherwise, you're talking straight out of your rectum on this one.

Tell me why Julius Peppers in a year where he went to the pro bowl on a 12-4 squad wont sign a 17 mill tender? I guarantee you all 4 of the teams he wants to play for have QBs as good or better than ours.

I don't care how the TDs are scored as long as we are putting up the points. I said this in another thread but if Jake throws five 1 yard TDs instead of our running backs doing it on the one yard line for us, why does that make a difference if our offense is successful??? As far as White goes, given that you and I are not scouts and given that he hasn't played a snap in the NFL, how can you be so sure that all of the things you have said apply?

Using our RBs to hide our QBs limitations only works for so long. What if 1 of our 2 studs go down next year? What if both go down? Not wishing it to happen, but it could. There's no guarantee we're gonna run the ball next year as well we did this past year. We were forced to rely on Jake's arm in the playoffs against an average D and he looked like Cap Rooney. What we've been doing hasnt gotten us over the top. Relying on Jake's arm doesnt win us ballgames which is why we ask him to pass the ball so few times. I'd love someone to calculate his $$$ per pass for next year. At his age and his price tag you'd be nuts not to want a cheaper more explosive option.

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Fireball77 Newbie

Fireball77

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Tell me why Julius Peppers in a year where he went to the pro bowl on a 12-4 squad wont sign a 17 mill tender? I guarantee you all 4 of the teams he wants to play for have QBs as good or better than ours.

Whether your last statement is true or not, it still isn't proof that's what Pep thinks. If all he wants is the best or better QBs then he likely should want to play for teams like Indy, NE, SD, or NO. I don't think NO, Indy or SD was on his list. I heard speculation it was Dallas, Wash, Philly & NE. Those 4 teams do not have the 4 best QBs in the NFL by any stretch of the imagination. I like Campbell, but to say he has accomplished as much as Jake has to date is a reach. Romo sure hasn't.

We were forced to rely on Jake's arm in the playoffs against an average D and he looked like Cap Rooney. What we've been doing hasnt gotten us over the top. Relying on Jake's arm doesnt win us ballgames which is why we ask him to pass the ball so few times. I'd love someone to calculate his $$$ per pass for next year. At his age and his price tag you'd be nuts not to want a cheaper more explosive option.

I think part of why he passed so few times was his unprecedented return from surgery, but that's just me. So when he leads 4th Q comebacks like he did 4 times this past year passing the ball, it's all Smitty (or XYZ receiver), right? I'm not arguing that he didn't have a horrendous day vs AZ. He did, and it was a huge part of why they lost (but not all of it). But to say he had little or nothing to do with helping the team get to 12-4 isn't fair either. In all honesty, there really aren't that many QBs who can consistently pass the ball 30-35+ times a game and win consistently which is what I am guessing you mean by "relying on a guy's arm to win". I think if you check the stats, you'll find that those QBs are on the losing end of the game far more often than not.

As for Pat White, he sounds like a guy tailor made for NFLE (a bit raw as a passer due to his college offense but with ability and who needs PLAY TIME to develop) and thanks to sucky Goodell, he doesn't have that chance to develop that way. I really wish they would at least expand the practice squads and let teams protect an extra QB so they could develop guys like that. It isn't doing the NFL any favors to remove tools for teams to develop QBs.

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goodlay Newbie

goodlay

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I don't see how people can see what a player can and can not do before he even enters the league.

It's just a prediction, seeing it's a common occurrance for players like him. Im not going to write an essay on the pros and cons of Pat White like some people do. It's just a message board, opinions are great aren't they?

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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It's just a prediction, seeing it's a common occurrance for players like him. Im not going to write an essay on the pros and cons of Pat White like some people do. It's just a message board, opinions are great aren't they?
what do you mean, "players like him?" guys who are multi-talented?

look at his stats and give a reason why he isn't a good QB.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=159846

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X-Clown Mentor

X-Clown

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So Matt Ryan gets all the credit for Roddy White emerging as a pro bowl receiver but Vick gets no credit for 2 time all pro TE Alge Crumpler?

Roddy White emerged the season after Vick left, in 2007 with Harrington, Redman, and Leftwich. He got even better with a better quarterback behind center. Michael Jenkins also had his best season as a pro with Ryan. He was also labeled a first round bust. See a pattern?

Alge Crumpler was a glorified safety valve, he was an All-Pro tight end because Vick targeted him so much. Jeff King could have been a pro bowler with a full season of David Carr.

Then improve the defense, but you dont do that by reaching on a 2nd round pick just because you need help in that area.

How do you improve the defense without picking up draft picks? And explain to me how picking a defensive player in the 2nd round is a reach but using the same pick on Pat White is not?

Tell me why Julius Peppers in a year where he went to the pro bowl on a 12-4 squad wont sign a 17 mill tender? I guarantee you all 4 of the teams he wants to play for have QBs as good or better than ours.

There are a variety of reasons that it could be. A simple one being that he's never lived outside of the state of North Carolina and wants a change of scenery. The one that's been brought up by his agent is the allure of playing in a 3-4 defense, presumably so that he can be more free-roaming like DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman. The other quote is that he feels he has maximized his potential in this sytem, which seems to me that he feels its coaching or the lack of personnel on the D-line which is holding him back. Either way, as I predicted, you have no evidence of it having anything to do with Jake and are projecting YOUR beliefs on him. Only Julius Peppers himself apparently knows the reason he wants to leave.

Using our RBs to hide our QBs limitations only works for so long. What if 1 of our 2 studs go down next year? What if both go down? Not wishing it to happen, but it could. There's no guarantee we're gonna run the ball next year as well we did this past year. We were forced to rely on Jake's arm in the playoffs against an average D and he looked like Cap Rooney. What we've been doing hasnt gotten us over the top. Relying on Jake's arm doesnt win us ballgames which is why we ask him to pass the ball so few times. I'd love someone to calculate his $$$ per pass for next year. At his age and his price tag you'd be nuts not to want a cheaper more explosive option.

Fireball pretty much covered this one. But to answer your what if question, he's played well enough in a season without Smith, and his top 4 or 5 running backs before.

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Brandon Newbie

Brandon

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Mike Vick isnt an awesome QB, but he's better than most on this board give him credit for and he's better than Matt Ryan and you can quote me again on that. Mike Vick takes his team to an NFCG, gives defenses headaches for 5 years, beats us 6 times, and he's garbage. Matt Ryan simply just makes the playoffs and wins ROY (like Vince Young, hmmm) and he's suddenly the annointed one. LOL.

Vick was inconsistent, a divisive force in the locker room, disrespectful to fans, disrespectful to coaches, and a felon. Oh and he was also a horrible passer. Sure he was a good 3rd running back on the field but that was it. Then again I guess you overlook that because he's your own personal standard for excellence amirite?

Oh and on the issue at hand, I wouldn't mind picking up Pat White if we traded Pep, and would still accept the fact if he doesn't get traded. Unlike Vick, White is an actual pass thrower and a good person.

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Sloth Apprentice

Sloth

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Roddy White emerged the season after Vick left, in 2007 with Harrington, Redman, and Leftwich. He got even better with a better quarterback behind center. Michael Jenkins also had his best season as a pro with Ryan. He was also labeled a first round bust. See a pattern?

Alge Crumpler was a glorified safety valve, he was an All-Pro tight end because Vick targeted him so much. Jeff King could have been a pro bowler with a full season of David Carr.

Hey guys, it's stupid if you try to guess or project crap. Let me project some to prove why. Nice dig at Vick there as well. Anyhow, Vick >> Carr and Crump >> King.

How do you improve the defense without picking up draft picks? And explain to me how picking a defensive player in the 2nd round is a reach but using the same pick on Pat White is not?

He's saying that most folks on here are of the "DLine at all costs" in regards to our 2nd round pick, irregardless of the fact that they might not be the BPA at the time. Of course, you knew that.

There are a variety of reasons that it could be. A simple one being that he's never lived outside of the state of North Carolina and wants a change of scenery. The one that's been brought up by his agent is the allure of playing in a 3-4 defense, presumably so that he can be more free-roaming like DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman. The other quote is that he feels he has maximized his potential in this sytem, which seems to me that he feels its coaching or the lack of personnel on the D-line which is holding him back. Either way, as I predicted, you have no evidence of it having anything to do with Jake and are projecting YOUR beliefs on him. Only Julius Peppers himself apparently knows the reason he wants to leave.

You're guessing just as much as he is, but it's cool.

Fireball pretty much covered this one. But to answer your what if question, he's played well enough in a season without Smith, and his top 4 or 5 running backs before.

What season was Delhomme without his top 4 or 5 running backs? The one time (one game) he dropped to RB #4, he looked completely lost against Seattle and couldn't get anything at all going against a team that basically triple teamed our #1 receiver. That game wasn't completely on him (ARZ pretty much was) but making stuff up to make him look better is just as dumb as saying he's complete trash.

He's just mostly trash at this point :)

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