For me its down to Coples or Jenkins

[panther4life]

I have been doing some research in my downtime at work and started by considering CB,DT,and DE as a position for us to target with our first pick assuming we stay put at 8/9.

I never really saw DT as need, until I read some compelling arguments about Brockers and Still. So I decided to keep an open mind about that position.

I think everyone can agree # 2 Corner could needs an upgrade. I also believe everyone is finally on the same page about Hardy being a terrible run defender. I don't think that a possible/likely upgrade at DT is a must nor does it supercede the 2 needs I just mentioned.

I went back and looked at the number of times a position has been taken inside the draft all the way down to the 10th pick of the 2nd round over the past 11 drafts. Heres the results:*a small sample of db's were safeties, others listed DT,ended up at DE and vice versa.

Defensive Back 90 times(8.18 per draft average)

Defensive Ends 50 times(4.63 per draft average)

Defensive Tackles 49 times(4.45 per draft average)

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

I did the above research to determine if we skipped on a certain postion in the first to get an idea of how much drop off there would be by waiting til our 2nd. While Cornerback is deep, this means we would likely end up with the 7th -9th best Corner vs the 2nd best if we take it in the first. Or we would get the 3rd to 5th best player at Defensive end vs the 1st or 2nd best.

The saving grace is if we wait til the 2nd to draft a corner it is a percived deep position but then again theres no gurantees. If we pass on DE OR DT then the gap should not be as big as it is at Corner, despite those postions not thought to be as deep in this draft.

Next thing I did to determine bang for the buck was to look at the cost of your average player by position:

DE is 1.58/per year

DT is 1.22/per year

CB is 1.19/ per year

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/average-nfl-salary-by-position.html

thats for average players and now here is franchise players(2012 Franchise tag cost):

DE-10.6/per year

CB-10.6/per year

DT-7.9/per year

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8247df3a/article/franchisetag-values-will-be-down-across-the-board-in-2012

The 8th pick last year(Locker)got a 4 year $12 million deal.

That means you could get an elite talent in the draft at DE/CB AND go out and sign an elite DT for nearly the same price you would pay to acquire a elite DE/CB in free agency alone.

In addition to this the new regime invested 2 3rd rounders in DT'S who have not had a full offseason yet and can still very well develop into something. We also signed Ron Edwards to an above average contract for a DT(3 years 8.25 mil).

Now most NFL experts will tell you the most important thing on defense is having great pass rushers and shutdown corners(evidenced by the frachise tag cost).

My only problem is at this point I am not sold that Coples will be as good as he can be, even tho his stats were still good despite him reportedly taking plays off. The other issue I have is if we pass on Jenkins (who I am 100% confident will be a beast in this leauge)I'm not sure I am comfortable with the 7th to 9th best corner.

[davos]

I like the idea of getting Jenkins even if it means we need to reach a bit.

When you pretty much throw all of them into the pile:

Coples

Jenkins/Kirkpatrick

Still/Brockers

Upshaw/Ingram

Reiff/Martin

(I'm probably missing someone we'll end up taking outta nowhere :) )

Jenkins seems like a very favorable choice regardless of the deep CB class. Heck I'd think getting a Steed or Trumaine in the later rounds could work on top of him in the first.

Good post

[nickzz]

i was watching the college all-stars skills challenge or w/e it is and quinton coples looked absolutely smacked during it. he seriously looked like he had just toked up right before and was cheesing on camera.

he was also not trying at all and played off the whole thing as a joke. i realize it was competition for entertainment purposes only but you'd like to see him at least exert himself during it.

[GamecockSmitty4]

huge, Huge, HUGE no to Coples. Wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

[Kuech the Sneak]

Need to improve the d-line. I'll take coples, but I'm open to almost anything at this point

[nagai]

I really don't understand how people can shrug off DT as a need. It is a HUGE need. Just because we've got a lot of guys at that position, doesn't actually mean that they can do anything.

[rayzor]

yeah, i guess we need to be content with having NO real quality starter in the middle of the Dline.

just throw any average 3rd rounder or 30 year old DT in there and we'll be fine.

[Guest Bwood15]

Its gotta either be Coples/Brockers/Reiff/Decastro, or whoever the best top 5 player that falls is (Clairborne/Blackmon/Kalil).

[jayflip]

DLine please. A beastly DLine can make our corners look great.

[jayflip]

Terry Cousins, Reggie Howard and Ricky Manning Jr as exhibit A.

[SOJA]

while I agree that building the d-line makes the corners better, if you feel with the ninth pick that a corner has a significantly higher grade than any d-lineman available, you take the corner. Both are needs. I trust Hurney in the first

[chubs2496]

I like what the giants have in a d line. At sometimes they have 4 de on the line. An all of them are really good. Ya got tuck, osi, JPP, and kiwanuka. And it's very effective on third downs when passing. I could see us selecting coples. Then maybe using a package with hardy and coples on the outside with cj and Edwards inside. That could be pretty nice. Wouldny be to good on attacking the run but would be a stud rush. Coples is a freak athlete not like

Peppers was but nobody is like pep.

[panther4life]

yeah, i guess we need to be content with having NO real quality starter in the middle of the Dline.

just throw any average 3rd rounder or 30 year old DT in there and we'll be fine.

LOL. Last time our Defense was ranked in the top 10, 8th overall to be exact (2009) who do you think our DT'S were?

Must have forgotten that it was 31 year old Damione Lewis and 35 year old Hollis Thomas.

Or what about the best D we had before that? That would be 05 when were ranked 3rd overall D and had Jorden Carstens and 34 year old Buckner starting.

Why so quick to give up on Fua,Mcclain anyway? I think its to early too make any certain judgements on them. Case in point,during his rookie year a lot of people on here called Lafell baby hands, LaFAIL, and now they all they he dat deal.

Your Logic in belittling them because they were 3rd rounders should strengthen the argument for a DE/CB, where our current starters are Hardy a 6th rounder and Captain Munnerlyn a 7th rounder. Plus Gamble is only 13 months shy of being 30.

[catnip]

I agree Bwood15. Its very possible that a top 5 player falls to us that not only fits our need, but is the BPA on the board with our pick. If this happens we will either jump on the pick or have a very good chance of trading down a little and getting more picks which we could use. It will be a win win .