If Peppers doesnt sign prior to DRAFT..

[Section 505]

Or will you guys just let Peppers bitch and complain like a little baby and try to call the shots, so you guys can keep him against his will?

That's overly dramatic even for you.

It'll be just like when the Panthers made Kris Jenkins play that last year here when he wanted to be traded. Jenks had a good year and the Panthers got good trade value out of him. I can see that playing out again with Pepp this year. It's really not that big of a deal.

[carolinarolls]

Well #1 that would screw the locker room up. The coaches are doing their jobs. They want their best defender on the field for them, so it's at a stalemate. One side will give before the draft. It won't be Hurney. Peppers knows he has to give a little before the draft. Otherwise this was all in vain. He threw a temper tantrum, basically shunned us as a team. And Hurney just smiled and says "Not so fast pal". Peppers screwed up. He's a very good player that wants to better himself on another team and told the world. If he holds out in 09 or plays bad for us in 09, he can flush his chances of the pay he wanted for the team he wanted. If he wants to leave, and if his agent is only half retarded, he'll sign the damn contract. This temper tantrum has got to stop, he's lowering himself as a player, and even more as a person.

First let me say that I love the Kenny Powers reference under your avatar.

Second, I agree with a lot of what you said except for him lowering himself as a player and as a person. I also do not agree with the assessment of his agent because right now the agent has Peppers holding all the cards that matter. His client is guaranteed a big payday no matter what. His client is not subject to trade negotiations that could force Peppers into showing his true colors or being publicly downgraded (as a player) in the media. Peppers and his people, however limited they may be according to public opinion, have the ability to take all the time in the world and make the decision that they feel is best for Julius Peppers.

The Panthers have nothing.

They have a tagged player who they cannot deal.

They have a tagged player that they cannot count on 100% effort from for the upcoming year.

They have a tagged player who is silently showing his opinion about their organization and that opinion is not only hurtful to the franchise in the way of ineptitude but is dragging on and on and daily growing all sorts of weird opinions from hacks across the board.

They have a tagged player that is casting a dark shadow of doubt on not only their ability to negotiate in free agency and trades, but limits their overall ability to plan for the draft and/or the upcoming season as far as the defense goes.

The panthers do not know what kind of money they will have, where they will draft, what position/s they can/should focus on pre-draft, what the true interest in Julius is across the league, and what if any potential locker room issues they will face if they don't somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat.

To me this is not hard to see and yes I am merely a humble fan and not a MENSA candidate, braintrust GM like Marty Hurney, but how can a FO put us in this position when all the potential negatives are weighed?

The belief that Julius is going/was going to pull two firsts from somebody is not realistic enough to risk all that they risked in my opinion.

[panthers55]

Yup, Carolina is going to hold Peppers hostage like dumbasses. Its been clear he wants out, the last I knew... when a player bickers with the front office and does nothing but complain... they are typically cut/benched.

So with that said, if Peppers is signed (Carolina wants too high of compensation as Peppers isnt worth Jared Allen value)... wouldnt Peppers be pushed down the depth chart for questioning his coaching staff and FO?

Or will you guys just let Peppers bitch and complain like a little baby and try to call the shots, so you guys can keep him against his will?

Either way, this whole off-season has went against the Panthers favor and this coming year oughta be quite interesting.

First of all that isn't true. Most players like Briggs who said he would never play for Chicago in 2008 end up playing and being productive. Boltin said he wouldn't play for Arizona last year but he did and was productive. Now they are saying they would trade for him but if they don't get adequate compensation will keep him again.

This whole ying yang about players wanting to be traded or wanting more money gets played out every year. Most guys either get traded or more often play for their old team and make a stink in February but by July are back in the fold. They decide to play nice and both sides say it was all business and nothing personal, etc.

The offseason hasn't gone poorly. We were never going to do much this year anyway. We will either keep or trade Peppers and make a few moves one way or the other. But we were not going to be big players in the free agent market anyway. Everyone says we are cap strapped but it is by our own choosing and we could stop it if we wanted to tommorrow. We could extend Jake if we wanted to. We could restructure Smitty if we wanted to. The truth is that most of the opinions and comments are coming from folks who don't have a clue what we are doing or even want to do.

Could things have gone smoother? Of course. But when Peppers didn't sign a new contract last fall, Fox and Hurney knew things might get rocky and still franchised him. So this isn't their first ride at the rodeo and they were prepared for this.

BTW for all the negative things you said about Peppers you should read the Bucs board when all the news was coming out. Most of the guys were ecstatic about the possibility of Peppers coming there. In fact if it was announced next week they would be falling all over themselves.

[carolinarolls]

That's overly dramatic even for you.

It'll be just like when the Panthers made Kris Jenkins play that last year here when he wanted to be traded. Jenks had a good year and the Panthers got good trade value out of him. I can see that playing out again with Pepp this year. It's really not that big of a deal.

check your crystal ball for tonight's power ball numbers while you're at it

[Udogg]

1. He is making 2.5 mill more than last year. So it was basically, pay 2.5 mill to keep an all pro DE, or get draft picks. It was a no brainer.

2. If we were rebuilding or coming off a down year it would have made sense to let him walk but we don't have that many "glaring" needs. I repeat we do have positions we need to address but none of them are "OMG were going to fail" status(I know Jake haters I know). Getting Gross signed was huge.

3. Due to lack of apparent interest, he will probably put together his best year ever. It only helps him to play well. We will still offer him the highest paid DE ever contract, he will also garner more interest from other teams. It hurts both parties if he holds out.

4. Smart GM's keep emotions out of decision making. Take for example Lance Briggs was saying he would never ever play for Chicago again. Anquan Boldin is doing the same thing in Arizona, but if they offered him the money he wants he would sign and profess his love of the organization and the front office. They would all hug and say its just business. Peppers agent was smart in what he was doing until Gross signed. Then he was stuck.

[Lone Buc Fan]

I'd love to see Peppers as a Buc as he'd dominate your offensive line. Peppers no doubt is a awesome pass rushing threat... Plus, he'd have extra motivation to put Delhomme out of the game(s) for all the times Jake didn't win him a super bowl.

I won't deny I'd like to have Peppers and at this point, I bet he'd rather be a Buc then a Panther anyway.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

carolinarolls... what are you going to say when they trade Peppers for a 1st plus more? Still going to say it's a mistake then?

[panthers55]

First let me say that I love the Kenny Powers reference under your avatar.

Second, I agree with a lot of what you said except for him lowering himself as a player and as a person. I also do not agree with the assessment of his agent because right now the agent has Peppers holding all the cards that matter. His client is guaranteed a big payday no matter what. His client is not subject to trade negotiations that could force Peppers into showing his true colors or being publicly downgraded (as a player) in the media. Peppers and his people, however limited they may be according to public opinion, have the ability to take all the time in the world and make the decision that they feel is best for Julius Peppers.

The Panthers have nothing.

They have a tagged player who they cannot deal.

They have a tagged player that they cannot count on 100% effort from for the upcoming year.

They have a tagged player who is silently showing his opinion about their organization and that opinion is not only hurtful to the franchise in the way of ineptitude but is dragging on and on and daily growing all sorts of weird opinions from hacks across the board.

They have a tagged player that is casting a dark shadow of doubt on not only their ability to negotiate in free agency and trades, but limits their overall ability to plan for the draft and/or the upcoming season as far as the defense goes.

The panthers do not know what kind of money they will have, where they will draft, what position/s they can/should focus on pre-draft, what the true interest in Julius is across the league, and what if any potential locker room issues they will face if they don't somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat.

To me this is not hard to see and yes I am merely a humble fan and not a MENSA candidate, braintrust GM like Marty Hurney, but how can a FO put us in this position when all the potential negatives are weighed?

The belief that Julius is going/was going to pull two firsts from somebody is not realistic enough to risk all that they risked in my opinion.

Hurney know exactly what he is doing. This is high stakes Poker and he is very good at it.

Hurney knows who is interested in Peppers, they know what is likely to happen. They know what they will do if they get certain offers. They know what they have if he doesn't get traded. They know how much money they will have in all kinds of scenarios. What the heck do you think that he and his staff have been doing for the last month. They have played every scenario through their head and have contingencies in place for everything.

Woodie nailed it a week or so ago. Peppers is not signing his tender so he can avoid OTAs, voluntary workouts and minicamps. He isn't going anywhere next week until he signs his tender and negotiations are finalized. The Panthers from what I know can't even field offers and discuss them until he signs the tender. Sure Carey can bring them anything he wants but Hurney isn't going to act on it until he gets it in writing or hears it personally. And no team will negotiate anything in writing unless they low ball it so they have some negotiating power. And Hurney wants the power to discuss it as well.

Peppers is handling this poorly and his agent doesn't have a clue. The best thing he did was shut up about it and stop talking to the media. That way he doesn't have to explain why no one wants him or is willing to pay him half of what he thinks he is worth.

As for being highly paid, that will only happen with the Panthers , no one else. If he doesn't get traded prior to the draft he won't get traded at all. If he really wants out, he is the one sweating bullets not Hurney.

[carolinarolls]

1. He is making 2.5 mill more than last year. So it was basically, pay 2.5 mill to keep an all pro DE, or get draft picks. It was a no brainer.

2. If we were rebuilding or coming off a down year it would have made sense to let him walk but we don't have that many "glaring" needs. I repeat we do have positions we need to address but none of them are "OMG were going to fail" status(I know Jake haters I know). Getting Gross signed was huge.

3. Due to lack of apparent interest, he will probably put together his best year ever. It only helps him to play well. We will still offer him the highest paid DE ever contract, he will also garner more interest from other teams. It hurts both parties if he holds out.

4. Smart GM's keep emotions out of decision making. Take for example Lance Briggs was saying he would never ever play for Chicago again. Anquan Boldin is doing the same thing in Arizona, but if they offered him the money he wants he would sign and profess his love of the organization and the front office. They would all hug and say its just business. Peppers agent was smart in what he was doing until Gross signed. Then he was stuck.

1. What draft picks? What does that 2.5 mill. get you? No brainer just about sums it up.

2. No glaring needs? Gross signing for 6 years was huge? How about the need for a pass rushing DE who wants to be a Carolina Panther?

3. The only people in this argument that do not know if there is or is not interest is the Carolina FO. More predictions without a clue of evidence to base it on. It is only hurting one party now.

4. This tagging was based solely on emotions. Fear. Marty-boi was scared to make the right decision after mitigating the risk based on the fear of ridicule. Briggs and Boldin wanted money. These situations do not compare. Find a player that *completed* his contract and did not sign a new considerably larger one when offered and you may have something. Peppers wants OUT of Charlotte because Charlotte (he thinks) cannot let him play like he wants to play and since their philosophy has proven that over the Fox years he, I think, may have made a wise decision. Sure it hurts but you can't change a guys man. this isn't some kid. He has been there and done that. He wants to do womething else and it's not about money.

[panthers55]

I'd love to see Peppers as a Buc as he'd dominate your offensive line. Peppers no doubt is a awesome pass rushing threat... Plus, he'd have extra motivation to put Delhomme out of the game(s) for all the times Jake didn't win him a super bowl.

I won't deny I'd like to have Peppers and at this point, I bet he'd rather be a Buc then a Panther anyway.

I would be very surprised if we would trade him to anyone in the NFC South. Plus I doubt he would want to go to Tampa given the uncertainty on the defense.

But either way, no more negative crap about Peppers since we all agree that any team in the NFC South would love to have him.:yesnod:

[carolinarolls]

Hurney know exactly what he is doing. This is high stakes Poker and he is very good at it.

Hurney knows who is interested in Peppers, they know what is likely to happen. They know what they will do if they get certain offers. They know what they have if he doesn't get traded. They know how much money they will have in all kinds of scenarios. What the heck do you think that he and his staff have been doing for the last month. They have played every scenario through their head and have contingencies in place for everything.

Woodie nailed it a week or so ago. Peppers is not signing his tender so he can avoid

OTAs, voluntary workouts andvminicamps. He isn't going anywhere next week until he signs his tender and negotiations are finalized. The Panthers from what I know can't even field offers and discuss them until he signs the tender. Sure Carey can bring them anything he wants but Hurney isn't going to act on it until he gets it in writing or hears it personally. And no team will negotiate anything in writing unless they low ball it so they have some negotiating power. And Hurney wants the power to discuss it as well.

Peppers is handling this poorly and his agent doesn't have a clue. The best thing he did was shut up about it and stop talking to the media. That way he doesn't have to explain why no one wants him or is willing to pay him half of what he thinks he is worth.

As for being highly paid, that will only happen with the Panthers , no one else. If he doesn't get traded prior to the draft he won't get traded at all. If he really wants out, he is the one sweating bullets not Hurney.

High stakes poker huh?

bullshit

thought out and planned for every scenario?

bullshit

Avoiding workouts?

bullshit

Peppers sweating?

bullshit

Hurney wants the power?

I don't doubt that but currently he has NONE of it and things are not looking good for that to change.

His little power trip has just tanked the entire off season and how you convince yourself that planning contingencies fore "all kinds of scenarios" surrounding one player who want the hell out of there is better spent time than planning for the 2009 draft and season is beyond me 55. But I'm certain you will try to spin it with more...bullshit.

[panthers55]

1.

4. This tagging was based solely on emotions. Fear. Marty-boi was scared to make the right decision after mitigating the risk based on the fear of ridicule. Briggs and Boldin wanted money. These situations do not compare. Find a player that *completed* his contract and did not sign a new considerably larger one when offered and you may have something. Peppers wants OUT of Charlotte because Charlotte (he thinks) cannot let him play like he wants to play and since their philosophy has proven that over the Fox years he, I think, may have made a wise decision. Sure it hurts but you can't change a guys man. this isn't some kid. He has been there and done that. He wants to do womething else and it's not about money.

Your responses are totally emotion. The decision was totally business. Hurney is not the emotional type and thought of all the angles before he made his decision. His whole completed his contract crap is just that. The CBA which he agreed to employs a franchise tag. He saw Gross get it last year so it was no surprise. This isn't about fair. I didn't see him giving back his money in 2007 when he was essentially a no show. He took the money and ran. Well this is the other part of it.

He wants out because he is a flake and wants his numbers without working hard or being the object of the offense's attention. Obviously with the flood of interest in him he has been exposed. The only thing keeping him back is him.

As for it not being about the money, they call it respect. He doesn't want to work for half the money of someone he considers less able than he is. So if you think he will play for 5 or 6 million to get out, you are deluded. In the end he will likely be here because he knows that no one thinks he is all that great but the Panthers.

[panthers55]

High stakes poker huh?

bullpoo

thought out and planned for every scenario?

bullpoo

Avoiding workouts?

bullpoo

Peppers sweating?

bullpoo

Hurney wants the power?

I don't doubt that but currently he has NONE of it and things are not looking good for that to change.

His little power trip has just tanked the entire off season and how you convince yourself that planning contingencies fore "all kinds of scenarios" surrounding one player who want the hell out of there is better spent time than planning for the 2009 draft and season is beyond me 55. But I'm certain you will try to spin it with more...bullpoo.

Well I think you summed up your post when you kept repeating the word Bull poo. You are obviously full of it.

You also don't seem to have a clue about how Hurney operates or what goes on getting ready for the draft. I don't have to spin anything, because you are the one trying to convince everyone we should have let Peppers walk not me.

You are out on a limb trying to convince folks you have a clue. If we trade him next week for picks you will look stupid. if we keep him and he does well you will look stupid. The only thing you can hope for is that he holds out all year so you can find some justification.

In the end that requires you to hope things stay negative and don't get worked out. You have to want things to get worse so you can be right. I find something distinctly perverted about it. You are back to your obvious Panther hating tactics again. Against the FO, against the coach, against the quarterback, for the disgruntled flaky player, etc.

Back to your true colors again.

[carolinarolls]

Well I think you summed up your post when you kept repeating the word Bull poo. You are obviously full of it.

You also don't seem to have a clue about how Hurney operates or what goes on getting ready for the draft. I don't have to spin anything, because you are the one trying to convince everyone we should have let Peppers walk not me.

You are out on a limb trying to convince folks you have a clue. If we trade him next week for picks you will look stupid. if we keep him and he does well you will look stupid. The only thing you can hope for is that he holds out all year so you can find some justification.

In the end that requires you to hope things stay negative and don't get worked out. You have to want things to get worse so you can be right. I find something distinctly perverted about it. You are back to your obvious Panther hating tactics again. Against the FO, against the coach, against the quarterback, for the disgruntled flaky player, etc.

Back to your true colors again.

we will never know just WHAT we have already missed by tagging Peppers, not to mention what we are going to miss.

but you just keep defying logic and saying we did the right thing. Somebody might even believe you.