Panthers vs. Cowboys MNF

[Lone Buc Fan]

Plus, I could care less who had a better offense between you two teams. I just wanted to show everyone that Dallas infact had a better defense on every phase then what Carolina had.... point proven, no more to really discuss on it.

[rko396]

First off you guys claim Carolina had the better front 7, which is why I showed you that your wrong. Someone said Beason had more tackles then Ware (whoopdee doo, the Cowboys had as many more sacks as you guys had tackles on them)... I'd say Sacks are a way higher value. Yea, 20 sacks isn't hard to do when what 2-3 guys have did it in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE NFL?... Yea, very intelligent statment there rko. Ware > Peppers since your comparing them.

While we are at it, Zach Thomas + Bradie James > Jon Beason for the MLB spot, the rest of the Dallas line (2 guys) dominated your 3 guys since we aren't including Peppers with them as he's being compared to Ware since Ware is just a glorified DE playing the OLB spot. Right? You guys are the ones always boasting about your historic run game and this and that and how your core is better and what not then even Dallas for instance in this topic. And your wrong, and won't admit it... even after its been proven. I already stated your defense hardly did anything to stop anyone all year and you argue and say that the Panthers front 7 is better then the Cowboys (Cowboys had a better secondary aswell)... So I guess Dallas in general had a better defense. Guess we have that covered as all phases of their defense was better then Carolina's defense. You guys are the ones trying to bring up all these stats as the determing factor of why your team is better then any team ever mentioned in any thread in the NFL as Carolina is the top team in the NFL. Case solved, don't bother responding if your going to continue to push illegitamate facts that have nothing to do with the topic on hand. The stats you brought in have nothing to do with who had the better front 7.

Again... the track record showed that Dallas had the better front 7 as a whole, no longer can Carolina be considering as having a better front 7 when you guys beg to differ.

Yea, I am a psycho xD... nothing wrong with that. I've offered more to suppourt why the Cowboys had a better front 7 then piles of biased opinions as you can't argue with facts too well . The 301 rushing reference to the Giants running for 300+ on you guys btw? lol...

Carolina only has 2 backs to use though, Dallas has 3 quality starting halfbacks... You guys lose one back and bam... that spells for disaster. Where Dallas had 2 starters hurt in Jones and Barber for alot of the year and Choice still played the starter role well. Carolina's 2 guys when healthy are overall more talented, but Dallas's depth makes them hard to push aside aswell as if you both lose 2 backs... they have the edge, even 1 back hurt they have the edge. This is why to me the backfields could be even, maybe Carolina with a bit of the favorable odds but injuries easily change favorable odds. Dallas can take the injury bug a bit better then you guys can.

Also, Carolina had more tackles with less linebackers on the field. Dallas just produced bigger plays with their defense (whether its a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme)... if you argue that, then your saying the 3-4 defense is built to force more turnovers and produce more sacks. Which is false, look at the front 7s as a whole and Dallas won the battle of this debate. Yup and it'll be a new season but we went off what we had to go by... with Dallas having greater results. Coulda mentioned their front 7 being hurt more then Carolina's aswell but the 22 sacks > 22 tackles more... That settles it as far as I see unless someone has something to offer aside a biased Panther view.

You know what? ur right. everything u say is right becuase ur just so knowledgible about the panthers. escepially when ur arguing oppinions. uve stated in how many threads that ud rather have 22 sacks then 22 tackles. fine take it. dallas can have 50 more sacks if they want, there 9-7 and we're 12-4 (a few inches off a field goal and we would have been number one seed in NFC). How you can compare a 3-4 defense with a 4-3 is beyond me. Trade in a DT for a blitzing LB and it would be even. What if Ware got 2 sacks against Phili? So breaks the record while his team is down 44-3 or whatever it was? great, awsome. hope he gets a nice throphy. he can even find a nice place for it while the rest of the teams are in the playoffs. No one here said Ware sucks and Beason is the greatest. Dallas had a better D then us last year. that might change next year, it might not. We could get more sacks and also give up more points. none of it matters except if u have those 10 wins at the end of the year. Sucks for you that ur Bucc's are a few years away from the division lead but hey being dead last in a good division isnt so bad.

[TyHillPanthers]

Plus, I could care less who had a better offense between you two teams. I just wanted to show everyone that Dallas infact had a better defense on every phase then what Carolina had.... point proven, no more to really discuss on it.

I see so you're totally ignoring the statement you made that started all this?? (which is the topic by the way, some people just wanted to nail you for you defense accusations) I see... and you wanted a legit debate based on facts I thought? I gave you something else to chew on. Which in a way ties in to your obsession with the Dallas defense. Im not arguing the defense im arguing how you think Dallas' Oline, RBs, and even QB is par or better than Carolinas. You might be in a little over your head with the statement you made at the beginning of this whole thread.

[Lone Buc Fan]

You know what? ur right. everything u say is right becuase ur just so knowledgible about the panthers. escepially when ur arguing oppinions. uve stated in how many threads that ud rather have 22 sacks then 22 tackles. fine take it. dallas can have 50 more sacks if they want, there 9-7 and we're 12-4 (a few inches off a field goal and we would have been number one seed in NFC). How you can compare a 3-4 defense with a 4-3 is beyond me. Trade in a DT for a blitzing LB and it would be even. What if Ware got 2 sacks against Phili? So breaks the record while his team is down 44-3 or whatever it was? great, awsome. hope he gets a nice throphy. he can even find a nice place for it while the rest of the teams are in the playoffs. No one here said Ware sucks and Beason is the greatest. Dallas had a better D then us last year. that might change next year, it might not. We could get more sacks and also give up more points. none of it matters except if u have those 10 wins at the end of the year. Sucks for you that ur Bucc's are a few years away from the division lead but hey being dead last in a good division isnt so bad.

The things that I speak on are from what I've watched and picked up on. I won't just randomly make statements if I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. You think I'm just doing whatever I can to discredit the Panthers. What I'm doing is making valid points to suppourt the claims that I have interest in debating. Yea and now your mentioning the whole Giants game when its just as easy to go through your schedule and pick out all the games you guys could have lost as easy as you won. Yet your the best team the NFC has to offer and all this mumbo jumbo. Its beyond you to compare teams front 7s? Someone had to bring up that Beason > Ware, which someone tried starting a argument with me about them being in different positions, when I wasen't even the one making that debate lol... Shows time and time again Panthers fans will just try to make any claim whether its irrelevant or not to the matter at hand. And again, pity insults about the Bucs have nothing to do with the Panthers and Cowboys. Tampa isn't involved in this conversation. Carolina is just overrated compared to its true talent as a whole. People can argue that all they want, but show me your ring... thats all I have to say to end this. No ring = bust... you rip on Dallas for not winning a playoff game... yet your team can't even finish a super bowl off when they get their one magical chance... and then they fall short from there on out year after year, playoffs or not.

[Lone Buc Fan]

Ty - You popped onto the scene with a argument after I already covered one, I could go all day comparing the Panthers to every team. Unless its something I feel as though is worth discussing to me, I'm not going to put energy into it to please someone or have a debate about something that I could care less about lol

[rko396]

The things that I speak on are from what I've watched and picked up on. I won't just randomly make statements if I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. You think I'm just doing whatever I can to discredit the Panthers. What I'm doing is making valid points to suppourt the claims that I have interest in debating. Yea and now your mentioning the whole Giants game when its just as easy to go through your schedule and pick out all the games you guys could have lost as easy as you won. Yet your the best team the NFC has to offer and all this mumbo jumbo. Its beyond you to compare teams front 7s? Someone had to bring up that Beason > Ware, which someone tried starting a argument with me about them being in different positions, when I wasen't even the one making that debate lol... Shows time and time again Panthers fans will just try to make any claim whether its irrelevant or not to the matter at hand. And again, pity insults about the Bucs have nothing to do with the Panthers and Cowboys. Tampa isn't involved in this conversation. Carolina is just overrated compared to its true talent as a whole. People can argue that all they want, but show me your ring... thats all I have to say to end this. No ring = bust... you rip on Dallas for not winning a playoff game... yet your team can't even finish a super bowl off when they get their one magical chance... and then they fall short from there on out year after year, playoffs or not.

haha keep talking about playoffs and our loss to Arizona. its funny cuz when i think of tampa all i seem to remember is the Raiders coming into R.J. Stadium and running all over you. Im sorry ur team is garbage. No need to hate on the NFC South Champs. Ive never predicted a panthers super bowl win, I just know who we're better then. We will have 2 easy wins over the Buccs and the Dallas game will be extremely competitive no matter who wins. Shut up with the Ware Beason argument. Can Beason blitz like Ware? No. Can Ware manage the field like Beason? Hell no. comepletly different positions. drop it. so now i think this is the part where u bring in some stats that prove that ur 3rd string OLB had 4 more tackles then ours and how that relates to us getting beat by Dallas, so get to it

[Lone Buc Fan]

Yea the Bucs had em down 10 points with 4 minutes left and just couldn't stop em. Was a bad feeling but I'd basically rather end the year like that then be hyped to be the favorite to goto the Super Bowl and totally get the floor whiped with my completely healthy team. I understand Tampa's situaion a bit more then you do as your just looking at the outcome over the inner workings of what led to that loss from the defense's standpoint. I've tried time and time again to make you understand why they collapsed but your too bullheaded to listen and try to understand the situation for what it was... you'd rather just sit there ad continue to ridicule the Bucs instead of understanding the situation, which its been clear your unaware of the situation but its all good.

I was going to continue with this but I'm going to quit while I'm ahead because I know your just going to pop off with some stupid response so yea, don't worry... I won't respond when I seen you post unless your actually offering something worth responding to... problem solved.

[MadHatter]

Yea the Bucs had em down 10 points with 4 minutes left and just couldn't stop em. Was a bad feeling but I'd basically rather end the year like that then be hyped to be the favorite to goto the Super Bowl and totally get the floor whiped with my completely healthy team. I understand Tampa's situaion a bit more then you do as your just looking at the outcome over the inner workings of what led to that loss from the defense's standpoint. I've tried time and time again to make you understand why they collapsed but your too bullheaded to listen and try to understand the situation for what it was... you'd rather just sit there ad continue to ridicule the Bucs instead of understanding the situation, which its been clear your unaware of the situation but its all good.

I was going to continue with this but I'm going to quit while I'm ahead because I know your just going to pop off with some stupid response so yea, don't worry... I won't respond when I seen you post unless your actually offering something worth responding to... problem solved.

The Bucs collapse against the Raiders was exactly like their collapse for the entire second half of the season. The great defense that you speak of is old and tired. They got exposed and beat up by every team they played late in the season....and that was when they were coached by one fo the greatest DC's the game has seen.

Now, they are a year older, and have no Monte Kiffin.....yet, they will be better than ever.......right, keep believing that fairy tale.

FYI...please check with Rhonde and see if his bell is still ringing. Those two stiff arms that bounced his head off the turn on MNF were classic.

Enjoy the basement....figuratively for the Bucs chances next season.....and literally for yourself.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Wait, does this guy think the Yucs stand a chance next year?

[Carolina Crazy V2]

Yea I know about Flip's change over, I'm glad you know who he is... people been trashing on him since I've got here. I atleast give your players respect, most Panthers fans say all the Buccaneers players are garbage, which makes them look like dumbasses for not knowing who a quality player is...

I gave Dallas the edge at the LB spot because they force more pressure with their linebackers, they have arguablly the top defensive playmaker at OLB with a good suppourting cast of linebackers there that haven't been brought into the conversation. Carolina's linebackers are good tacklers but they don't seem to really make any notable plays or stop the other team for driving down the field.

With teams mainly passing on Carolina last year, it didn't help the Panthers case that they had a bad pass defense and that partially is to blame on the linebackers as if they aren't getting sacks and the other team passes.. they are forced to play coverage, which they weren't doing a good enough job of doing that.

Dallas's linebackers really only had one bad showing (The Ravens) and had bigger playmakers at the OLB spot. Then you have multiple Panthers fans saying the Cowboys have a better defensive line, thats not me just saying that.

Beason could have forced more footballs to pop out though if he was anything more then a solid tackler, can we agree on that?.. Beason is more of a solid tackler then a hard hitting MLB like a Ray Lewis type. I'd just rather take a core of linebackers who force the offense to make mistakes, over guys who sit in a zone and wait for the Halfbacks to run at them.

Did you watch any Panthers games? By week 2, Panthers linebackers were making stops to win the game, you have obviously escaped from your mental institution which they told you wonderful stories of how the Bucs went 9-7 two years, what a consistent Superbowl caliber team! They must have always explained to you how 4-3 and 3-4 are the same exact thing when it comes to linebackers, there's no difference, right? Even if Beason blitzes once per game and Ware blitzes 20 times, if Beason doesn't have more sacks, he's useless!

[Carolina Crazy V2]

This is to save anymore argument on this subject. We'll compare both teams front 7 defenders, as everyone on this forum seems to fall back on the stat column (20 rush TDs from D, 12-4 Record, etc etc.) I'll even break it down position by position. Then people can shut up and read the stats.

Dallas Cowboys Production

MLB

Zach Thomas

94 Tackles, 1 Sack, 0 Forced Fumbles

Bradie James

116 Tackles, 8 Sacks, 3 Forced Fumbles

MLB Evaluation: 210 Tackles, 9 Sacks, 3 Forced Fumbles

OLB

DeMarcus Ware

84 Tackles, 20 Sacks, 6 Forced Fumbles

Greg Ellis

36 Tackles, 8 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumbles

OLB Evaluation: 120 Tackles, 28 Sacks, 6 Forced Fumbles

Defensive Line

Jay Ratliff

51 Tackles, 8 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumbles

Chris Canty

37 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumbles

Marcus Spears

35 Tackles, 1 Sack, 1 Forced Fumble

Defensive Line Evaluation: 123 Tackles, 12 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble

Overall Front 7 Evaluation: 453 Tackles, 49 Sacks, 10 Forced Fumbles

Carolina Panthers Production

MLB

Jon Beason

138 Tackles, 0 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumbles

MLB Evaluation: 138 Tackles, 0 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumbles

OLB

Thomas Davis

113 Tackles, 4 Sacks, 2 Forced Fumbles

Na'il Diggs

54 Tackles, 1 Sack, 0 Forced Fumbles

OLB Evaluation: 167 Tackles, 5 Sacks, 2 Forced Fumbles

Defensive Line

Maake Kemoeatu

36 Tackles, 0 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble

Tyler Brayton

40 Tackles, 4 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble

Damione Lewis

43 Tackles, 4 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble

Julius Peppers

51 Tackles, 14 Sacks, 5 Forced Fumbles

Defensive Line Evaluation: 170 Tackles, 22 Sacks, 8 Forced Fumbles

Overall Front 7 Evaluation: 475 Tackles, 27 Sacks, 10 Forced Fumbles

Team Overall Comparison

Dallas Cowboys

453 Tackles, 49 Sacks, 10 Forced Fumbles

Carolina Panthers

475 Tackles, 27 Sacks, 10 Forced Fumbles

There you have it folks, you can use whatever excuse that you want to use or attempt to use. Based off last year's stats (which everyone holds as the determining factor of any debate)...

Carolina leads with 22 Tackles

Cowboys leads with 22 Sacks

Forced Fumbles = Even

Yup, now shut the hell up with this debate... 22 sacks = more then 22 tackles. This was basing both teams starting front 7. Don't wanna hear no more crap, the facts speak for themself.

Dallas's Front 7 > Carolina's Front 7

Keep telling me I'm wrong about things and I'm a idiot, I don't look into facts whatsoever and just randomly make up crap in every post I make. There ya have it, well researched information at your disposal showing Carolina is not anywhere near better then Dallas on comparing the team's front 7s.

Dallas lost Canty AND Thomas so there you go! Let's compare the stats now, I guess i couldn't guess that a mentally challenged Bucs fan like you could realize this. What's your reply to that, we're talking about next year, who cares about what Thomas and Canty did because they're GONE, please stop now with your foolishness.

[Carolina Crazy V2]

Lone Buc Fan, get off this board because your mentally incapable of making a statement that doesn't bash a Panthers player of Panthers fan unreasonably. All you do is say that

1-Dallas Running Back are better than the Panthers(Panthers top 2 destroyed Dallas' 3)

2-Demarcus Ware is better than the entire Panthers defense

3-Demarcus Ware is a better LB than Beason because he has more sacks

4-Panthers fans say that Chris Harris is the next Polamalu

5-Panthers fans say that every Bucs player is garbage

6-Panthers fans say that every Panthers is in the top 5 at their position unless they suck miserably

7-Dallas front 7 last year was better than Carolina's so they will beat them this year(Dallas lost Zach Thomas and Chris Canty nitwit)

You keep spewing out your crazy statements and they are not worth the space on this board so go back to the Bucs forum and talk with the few other Bucs fans there.

[Peppermint9030]

Yea I know about Flip's change over, I'm glad you know who he is... people been trashing on him since I've got here. I atleast give your players respect, most Panthers fans say all the Buccaneers players are garbage, which makes them look like dumbasses for not knowing who a quality player is...

I gave Dallas the edge at the LB spot because they force more pressure with their linebackers, they have arguablly the top defensive playmaker at OLB with a good suppourting cast of linebackers there that haven't been brought into the conversation. Carolina's linebackers are good tacklers but they don't seem to really make any notable plays or stop the other team for driving down the field.

With teams mainly passing on Carolina last year, it didn't help the Panthers case that they had a bad pass defense and that partially is to blame on the linebackers as if they aren't getting sacks and the other team passes.. they are forced to play coverage, which they weren't doing a good enough job of doing that.

Dallas's linebackers really only had one bad showing (The Ravens) and had bigger playmakers at the OLB spot. Then you have multiple Panthers fans saying the Cowboys have a better defensive line, thats not me just saying that.

Beason could have forced more footballs to pop out though if he was anything more then a solid tackler, can we agree on that?.. Beason is more of a solid tackler then a hard hitting MLB like a Ray Lewis type. I'd just rather take a core of linebackers who force the offense to make mistakes, over guys who sit in a zone and wait for the Halfbacks to run at them.

Bro we almost beat Dallas 2 seasons ago with Matt Moore at QB and Foster in the backfield, during the Cowboys 13-3 season what make you think we cant do it this season? Besides your man fetish for Ware.

Im done posting on this but ill leave you with this-

[ame]

[/ame]

Just dont be to upset that your going to have to see this running game 2 times a yr for the next 7 years. You speak for a whole fan base and I now have a new hated team it went from Dallas to Tampabay in the blink of an eye because of your fan bases ignorance and stupidity and embaressing football knowledge.

[PhillyB]

This has turned into a moron smackfest... geez...