The Truth about our Schedule.............

[Lone Buc Fan]

Brandon, you obviously don't even know what your talking about lol... Your just trying to give the Panthers a edge...

Cadillac Williams - 1st Round 2005 OROTY

Michael Clayton - 1st Round 2004 2nd place for OROTY

Davin Joseph - 1st Round 2006 Pro Bowl Guard

Barrett Ruud - 2nd Round 2005, Same Calibur as Beason

Tanard Jacksn - 4th Round 2007, Started every game for the Bucs at FS

Jeremy Trueblood - 2nd Round 2006, Again solid starting tackle

Arron Sears - 2nd Round 2007, Started every game at LG

Gaines Adams - 1st Round 2007, Good pass rusher

Aqib Talib - 1st Round 2008, led rookies in interceptions playing the nickel spot

Sabby Piscitelli - 2nd Round 2008, Starting at SS this year and filled in decently last year at both safety spots

Jeremy Zuttah - 3rd Round 2008, Provided a solid backup for the offensive line

So, yea... the Bucs have a horrible draft record... Don't forget about Trent Dilfer (won a super bowl with the Ravens), Warren Sapp (one of the leading DTs of his era for sacks) Derrick Brooks (Lock for Hall of Fame), Lee Roy Selmon (1st Draft pick, Hall of Famer), Mike Alstott (great power runner)

I could go on and on about what moves the Bucs have made over the years and had good results from that play.

Now add this to last year's team...

Kellen Winslow Jr (Triple the production of the Bucs Tes)

Derrick Ward (1,000 yard rusher, 200 in a game against Carolina)

Angelo Crowell (120+ tackles a season)

Byron Leftwich (Best FA QB on the market)

Thats more then what Carolina has done, all you guys have did since your playoff loss was take a step back by cutting Lucas, keeping 34 year old Delhomme who is questioned by his teammates. Kept Peppers against his will, which will be a headache as its shown with every great player whose wanted away from their team.

So yea, check into your facts before you make a random statement that has no relevance.

[Fox007]

Because the Falcons had a good team base and made good FA acquisitions. Trading for Kellen "whiny bitch" Winslow Jr is not a good start. I like the Derrick Ward acquisition but that's the only move they made in the plus column. Add onto that the Bucs' HORRID draft record.

You didn't know those were good FA acquisitions until the games were being played and over. MT was unproven as a starter, and as far as anyone knew or cared their WR's sucked ass.(at least that was the common perception)

Being a whiny bitch won't stop him from catching passes all over our shitty secondary.(which is shitty until proven otherwise)

They got a new QB(for them) and a new RB and their line is already good. If they drafted a QB their situation would be very similar to what the Falcons did last year.

The Bucs don't spend their money, which is their fault, so yea they will be worse than they should if they don't use it. But usually the Bucs always give us a tough game, even when they were 4-12 we beat em by 2 points in that one game.

[Lone Buc Fan]

The Bucs are fine not drafting a QB in the first round... I mean hell we won a super bowl with Brad Johnson (no flash there)

Came under new managment with Gruden who won a super bowl his first year (Mike Tomlin went 10-6 his first year as a head coach, won the super bowl his 2nd year)

So yea, change necessarily isn't a decline in production. It can be just the spark you need.

[Lone Buc Fan]

Typically the Bucs 1st round picks come in and contribute greatly to the team, so whoever it is... I'm fine with that.

[Brandon]

Typically the Bucs 1st round picks come in and contribute greatly to the team, so whoever it is... I'm fine with that.

Since 2000:

Kenyatta Walker

Michael Clayton

Cadillac Williams

Davin Joseph

Gaines Adams

Aqib Talib

Okay I'll give you Talib and possibly Joseph since he did well last year, but come on you have to be delusional if you think that is a good history of 1st round picks.... There is a reason why Tampa liked to trade it's 1st rounders.

[Lone Buc Fan]

Well they traded 2 first rounders toward acquiring Gruden (Won a super bowl his first year) so that paid off... Clayton had over 1,200 yards receiving his rookie season, if thats not productive for a 1st round receiver, then I suppouse Ted Ginn is a bust and he's had alot of Rave reviews of being so great.

Cadillac, rookie of the year... had the most rushing yards of any running back in history through the first 4 games of the year and finished with the ROTY and almost 1,200 rushing. Hows that not productive?

Gaines hasen't produced like we'd like but he still has enough potential that we aren't about to give up on him. Plus, you generalized us as having a bad draft history... Which isn't the case if you look at our roster and what they do for our team.

[Brandon]

Well they traded 2 first rounders toward acquiring Gruden (Won a super bowl his first year) so that paid off...

No it didn't. You traded 2 first round picks for a marginal, overrated coach who road the coattails of Tony Dungy to a SB win.

Clayton had over 1,200 yards receiving his rookie season, if thats not productive for a 1st round receiver, then I suppouse Ted Ginn is a bust and he's had alot of Rave reviews of being so great.

Yeah one good season and what has he done since? He's Keary Colbert but you guys wasted a first on him.

Cadillac, rookie of the year... had the most rushing yards of any running back in history through the first 4 games of the year and finished with the ROTY and almost 1,200 rushing. Hows that not productive?

And since that point all he's done is either be overrated or be injured. He barely has over 1000yds in the past 3 seasons. You guys passed up on Aaron Rodgers, who would have been perfect for your franchise, instead going with someone who has barely been able to stay healthy.

Gaines hasen't produced like we'd like but he still has enough potential that we aren't about to give up on him. Plus, you generalized us as having a bad draft history... Which isn't the case if you look at our roster and what they do for our team.

Look at the talent you guys missed behind him.

Also, your draft record is even worse in later rounds...Jermaine Phillips and Barret Rudd the ONLY impact players taken in the past 8 years after the first round. So 4 quality draft picks since 2000, very nice.

[Lone Buc Fan]

No it didn't. You traded 2 first round picks for a marginal, overrated coach who road the coattails of Tony Dungy to a SB win.

Dungy never pushed the team over the hump, Gruden's offense actually scored points. Where Dungy's offense rarely put the team in position to win games. Gruden also was the main reason the Buccaneers defense dominated in the Super Bowl (knowing Oakland's entire offensive scheme and forcing Gannon to throw 5 interceptions, 3 for Touchdowns)

Don't forget that Simeon Rice especially developed Under Armour for the Bucs game vs the Eagles in the Championship, where Dungy's team could never win in the cold but Gruden's pulled it on on the grandest stage.

Yeah one good season and what has he done since? He's Keary Colbert but you guys wasted a first on him.

Yea except Keary has never even produced all that much for even a year, not to mention that Clayton is locked in for 5 years and will be a starter as he's finally healthy (been hurt the past few years but you don't pay attention to what has happened to him)

And since that point all he's done is either be overrated or be injured. He barely has over 1000yds in the past 3 seasons. You guys passed up on Aaron Rodgers, who would have been perfect for your franchise, instead going with someone who has barely been able to stay healthy.

Hard to get over 1,000 yards when your knees get blown out on ya. Different knees but the second injury was at the end of the season and Cadillac is already off crutches... So he will be a contributor this season. Aaron Rodgers didn't do anything impressive with Pro Bowl receivers last year and can't even hold Favre's jock. Not to mention the Bucs put Green Bay away last season. Tampa bouncing Quarterback to Quarterback but still has the ability to have a winning season, refer to Delhomme being out for a year for this one.

Look at the talent you guys missed behind him.

Also, your draft record is even worse in later rounds...Jermaine Phillips and Barret Rudd the ONLY impact players taken in the past 8 years after the first round. So 4 quality draft picks since 2000, very nice.

Well if you knew anything about the draft, you'd know there is a 50% chance of success in the 2nd round and 20% in the 3rd round and beyond. Tanard Jackson seems to be involved in turnovers against Carolina when we meet up (4th round pick)... and yea, I made a whole list of guys that we've brought in that have been quality players. Lets hear this great quality the Panthers have brought in since 2000 then.

[Lone Buc Fan]

Oh yea and since 1 year doesn't really count as production... don't bother counting either of your halfbacks.

[Brandon]

Dungy never pushed the team over the hump, Gruden's offense actually scored points. Where Dungy's offense rarely put the team in position to win games. Gruden also was the main reason the Buccaneers defense dominated in the Super Bowl (knowing Oakland's entire offensive scheme and forcing Gannon to throw 5 interceptions, 3 for Touchdowns)

Yeah going from 30 TD's in 2001 on offense to 29 is a real big step up.

Don't forget that Simeon Rice especially developed Under Armour for the Bucs game vs the Eagles in the Championship, where Dungy's team could never win in the cold but Gruden's pulled it on on the grandest stage.

The Eagles were even worse at the NFC Championship....

Yea except Keary has never even produced all that much for even a year, not to mention that Clayton is locked in for 5 years and will be a starter as he's finally healthy (been hurt the past few years but you don't pay attention to what has happened to him)

Being hurt is a factor. I don't care how good he is when he's healthy, it's about someone's entire body of work. If they miss games then they are a liability.

Hard to get over 1,000 yards when your knees get blown out on ya. Different knees but the second injury was at the end of the season and Cadillac is already off crutches... So he will be a contributor this season. Aaron Rodgers didn't do anything impressive with Pro Bowl receivers last year and can't even hold Favre's jock. Not to mention the Bucs put Green Bay away last season. Tampa bouncing Quarterback to Quarterback but still has the ability to have a winning season, refer to Delhomme being out for a year for this one.

Yeah and injuries are a part of football. There are tons of "great when healthy" players, many that the Panthers fans are all too familiar with, but when all is said and done he still hasn't produced for whatever reason.

As for Aaron Rodgers, maybe you missed him being in the top 5 in nearly every category. What a joke.

Well if you knew anything about the draft, you'd know there is a 50% chance of success in the 2nd round and 20% in the 3rd round and beyond. Tanard Jackson seems to be involved in turnovers against Carolina when we meet up (4th round pick)... and yea, I made a whole list of guys that we've brought in that have been quality players. Lets hear this great quality the Panthers have brought in since 2000 then.

Deon Grant

Kris Jenkins

Steve Smith

Julius Peppers

Will Witherspoon

Jordan Gross

Chris Gamble

Travelle Wharton

Thomas Davis

DeAngelo Williams

Richard Marshall

Jon Beason

Ryan Kalil

Jonathan Stewart

Jeff Otah

Charles Godfrey

You lose.

[Lone Buc Fan]

Yeah going from 30 TD's in 2001 on offense to 29 is a real big step up.

Yea, well it all depends in what positon your put in. Don't forget the defense finished with what 8-9 touchdowns?

The Eagles were even worse at the NFC Championship....

Agreed, but they were the odds on favorite and got spanked by the lowly Bucs.

Being hurt is a factor. I don't care how good he is when he's healthy, it's about someone's entire body of work. If they miss games then they are a liability.

Yea and you still have time to see if your backs can both stay healthy all year and keep your offense thriving.

As for Aaron Rodgers, maybe you missed him being in the top 5 in nearly every category. What a joke.

Yet, Rodgers couldn't even win in a weak division?

See, now your just throwing a bunch of guys into the mix that aren't even necessarily great.

Deon Grant?... WHAT?! lol

Kris Jenkins?... so great that you guys didn't bother keeping him, hows that count?

Steve Smith... No argument there, he's a top 5 receiver.

Julius Peppers... yea he's talented and look at his situation now, pretty awesome

Will Witherspoon... meh, dude can't hold Hardy Nickerson's jock

Jordan Gross... Good tackle, no lie

Chris Gamble... good luck catching Ronde Barber in career statistics

Travelle Wharton... Refer to Arron Sears

Thomas Davis... A guy who doesn't get sacks? Thought the Bucs had Cato for that

DeAngelo Williams... Cadillac Williams, doesn't mean anything like you said unless they produce consistently year after year but what you implied... 1 fluke year doesn't mean anything even though I do believe in his ability

Richard Marshall... oh you mean a reject Aqib Talib who hardly did anything for your team

Jon Beason = Barrett Ruud... already compared them and Ruud is 25

Ryan Kalil... Yup, just took him what 2 years to finally start?

Jonathan Stewart... Yea, Warrick Dunn did more then what Stew prob ever will

Jeff Otah.. I like him but Donald Penn is just as good as is Jeremy Trueblood

Charles Godfrey... this one mystifies me as the guy is horrible in coverage, Tanard Jackson takes the cake on that one.

Yea and you gotta forget, its not all about the draft on how you build your team. As bad as you portray the Bucs... they still are one of 6 teams to repeat with a winning record... Carolina in there? Nah... produce more then 1 year in a row before you bother speaking atleast. lol... thanks for making it easy to point out how you guys have barely added anything the Bucs haven't lol...

[Brandon]

Yet, Rodgers couldn't even win in a weak division?

Look at their defense and running game. Saying Rodgers was the reason they didn't do well is short sighted.

See, now your just throwing a bunch of guys into the mix that aren't even necessarily great.

Deon Grant?... WHAT?! lol

Kris Jenkins?... so great that you guys didn't bother keeping him, hows that count?

Steve Smith... No argument there, he's a top 5 receiver.

Julius Peppers... yea he's talented and look at his situation now, pretty awesome

Will Witherspoon... meh, dude can't hold Hardy Nickerson's jock

Jordan Gross... Good tackle, no lie

Chris Gamble... good luck catching Ronde Barber in career statistics

Travelle Wharton... Refer to Arron Sears

Thomas Davis... A guy who doesn't get sacks? Thought the Bucs had Cato for that

DeAngelo Williams... Cadillac Williams, doesn't mean anything like you said unless they produce consistently year after year but what you implied... 1 fluke year doesn't mean anything even though I do believe in his ability

Richard Marshall... oh you mean a reject Aqib Talib who hardly did anything for your team

Jon Beason = Barrett Ruud... already compared them and Ruud is 25

Ryan Kalil... Yup, just took him what 2 years to finally start?

Jonathan Stewart... Yea, Warrick Dunn did more then what Stew prob ever will

Jeff Otah.. I like him but Donald Penn is just as good as is Jeremy Trueblood

Charles Godfrey... this one mystifies me as the guy is horrible in coverage, Tanard Jackson takes the cake on that one.

Yea and you gotta forget, its not all about the draft on how you build your team. As bad as you portray the Bucs... they still are one of 6 teams to repeat with a winning record... Carolina in there? Nah... produce more then 1 year in a row before you bother speaking atleast. lol... thanks for making it easy to point out how you guys have barely added anything the Bucs haven't lol...

I was merely counting good, not necessarily great players. If you want that then that'll take the Bucs down to 2 successful draft picks in 9 years.

-Grant was very good in his first several seasons, but hasn't done well in Jacksonville's system

-Kris Jenkins is still a good player despite not getting along with the FO. I'm not a big fan but his talent is still there.

-Despite the issues with Peppers, I think most of the Panther fans who hate him at the moment would say that he's a great player.

-Seriously, if you don't know why Spoon is on that list maybe you shouldn't be talking football. At least not with adults.

-Gamble may not catch Ronde on career statistics but he's a great CB regardless.

-Wharton is a top 10 offensive guard, who is versatile enough to play any position on the line other than center.

-TD doesn't get sacks because up until last year he wasn't playing a position conducive to getting sacks. Even last year we didn't rush him often but when we did he still managed 3.5 sacks. What makes him stand out is his ability to play the run and the pass effectively.

-DeAngelo has never been hurt for any significant length of time, he did well last year because we finally had a line capable of supporting a run game. You don't produce like that on a fluke occurance, even you admitted he's great.

-Marshall would be a starter on a lot of teams and even though he took a step back last year he was still a good player.

-Beason is better than Ruud. We are talking top 3, possibly best player at his position right now. Ruud is awesome and I give him all the credit in the world, but Beason is hands down better in the eyes of just about every football fan, player, coach, GM and team owner.

-It took Kalil one year to start, which fast for a center, and he was critical to our success in the running game.

-Otah is better than either of your tackles and that is only after one year, he still has a lot of room to grow on top of that.

-Godfrey was the victim of Lucas' mistakes, and being a rookie that didn't bode well. He did make mistakes but he showed excellent ability a vast majority of the time.

[Lone Buc Fan]

Grant - Never really evolved into being anything worth keeping, main reason you guys didn't bother keeping him.

Jenkins - Good DT but still, played overweight and halfhearted... Never did much for Carolina, and had his best year once he left lol...

Peppers - Hard to deny talent but not hard to question heart

Witherspoon - Average at best, not like he'll ever be in the hall of fame

Gamble - Yea, put him even with Aqib Talib since its all about stats right?

Wharton - Yup, Sears does exactly the same thing for the Bucs and is a top guard for how old he is, just like Wharton... and 1 good running season means Wharton is great now?

Davis - He has potential but still hasen't did anything worth saying he's a great draft pick

D - Dude only started once and took what 278 carries, I'd hope he wouldn't of been hurt when he couldn't even beat DeShaun Foster out to be the starter. DeAngelo is a great talent, as is Cadillac Williams and DeAngelo will be in the same exact position of 1 solid year then being labeled as a bust like Cadillac is all because of a injury.

Marshall - I don't know how you can say he's starter material when he couldn't even beat out a guy who was burnt all year long by any decent receiver. That just seems to make Marshall look worse. Only real strength to this guy is speed.

Beason - I'd say #2 best MLB, but his production isn't far off from Ruud and Ruud doesn't get the same recognition as Beason but plays the same role. I meant = as in they play the same role. Beason is a bit behind Patrick Willis though. And yea, Beason doesn't get sacks or stand as well in coverage. He had the same interceptions as Ruud but Ruud is more of a zone linebacker thats stout enough to stop the run. Remember Ruud ripping the ball out of Matt Forte's hands last year in the end zone? Ruud also had a better suppourting cast on defense the past 2 years taking tackles from him and still isn't far off from Beason. Should be a different story this year.

Kalil - Yup, a 1st rounder who sat on the bench for a year... Still a good guy and is almost as good as Jeff Faine.

Otah - Penn came out of nowhere, and is young... Penn wasen't a first round selection. Nor was Jeremy Trueblood... Seemed like the Bucs QBs didn't hardly ever touch the turf.

Godfrey - Ed Reed was never a victim of anyone's mistakes. Playmakers make plays and Godfrey isn't a playmaker. Godfrey is well behind Tanard Jackson in ability and experience and you didn't even mention Jackson.

Now for young Depth the Bucs have...

Clifton Smith - Undrafted Rookie that was a Pro Bowl returner

Cadillac - Compare to DeAngelo Williams as you imply 1 year means nothing

Earnest Graham - Solid run threat, great power and developed from low stock

Alex Smith - 2 Touchdowns in his first game as a rookie, good receiving threat

Penn - Stated in this thread

Trueblood - Ditto

James Lee - Solid backup Tackle, 2 year pro filled in a few times solidly

Davin Joseph - Better then Wharton, Pro Bowler, Nasty run blocker

Arron Sears - Comparable to Wharton, except he's started longer

Jeremy Zuttah - 2 year pro can swing at any oline spot like James Lee

Gaines Adams - You know who he is I hope...

Greg White - 5 sacks last year swinging in for Kevin Carter, 3 year pro

Jermaine Phillips - Yup, great run stopper who stuffed your ground game to 39 yards when healthy

Geno Hayes - 6th round pick thats working on starting and blocked a punt for a td against the Panthers

Quincy Black - Fighting for a starting job but will be taking a good amount of snaps

Ruud - Covered that.

Sabby Piscitelli - Even with your huge runs, Sabby didn't allow DeAngelo to bust free on him but is similar to a young Troy Polamalu

Tanard Jackson - Read Godfrey.

Will Allen - Started for tampa, replaced by Jackson but still a good special teamer

Aqib Talib - No label needed

Hell, thats nearly a full team and still some young guys waiting to prove themself....

[Lone Buc Fan]

Also, you should only be applying people you still have as Steve Young was a draft pick for the Bucs but did nothing for us. Thats comparable to Kris Jenkins.