Owning what you write

[TheRealDeal]

He's making the claim that all defenses are nearly the same and only 20 yards separates them. If he wants to say that the defenses Dalton faced down the stretch is the same as what Cam faced down the stretch that's fine, I'm not going to argue and it's why I didn't respond. I don't care enough to get into this debate but when you face Balt, Pitt twice, Houston, Seattle, etc and when 7/10 of your last games are against top flight opponents (in the top 10) you are going to struggle compared to someone facing 1 top 10 defense down the stretch.

I'm definitely not going to address comparing Jimmy Clausen to any respectable QB and acting like Smitty came back just because Cam but ignoring the fact that Smitty was extremely productive with Moore in the lineup, same with Gettis/LaFell.

I'm also not going to address the fact that he compares Dalton to Rodgers and Brees and acting like they should play the game the same or that his coaches would trust him to do that.

Lord knows I'm not going to address him stating that the reason we have better weapons is because of Cam. Dude said that.

He gave you all kinds of cool stats about first down % and blah blah blah but he chose to ignore that Dalton was more efficient throwing the ball than Cam in terms of TDs and Ints.

It's not worth responding, I don't care enough to argue for Dalton. He had a solid rookie year and so did Cam. Everyone move on.

[mav1234]

Before you accuse other people of reading too much into things, you might want to take a look in the mirror.

What do you mean by this? Obviously I was exaggerating for emphasis, hence why I didn't credit anyone specifically with that quote, but the fact remains that some people around here have trouble acknowledging what other players have contributed to their teams, yet are more than happy to give Cam all the credit for everything about this team outside of the defense sucking.

You may not have been guilty of this but it doesn't mean others are not. Obviously some of TRD's posts were meant to get responses out of people, but he has repeatedly given Cam credit so I just don't understand why people act like he hates Cam or something.

[tiger7_88]

You are right, but many regard Dalton as a better pure passer

Oh.

My.

Zod.

:eek:

[ed bell]

It's not worth responding, I don't care enough to argue for Dalton. He had a solid rookie year and so did Cam. Everyone move on.

Don't care about Dalton?...I can agree with you... he will be brought up again though, numerous times....It's a Cam thread tradition.

[panthers55]

He's making the claim that all defenses are nearly the same and only 20 yards separates them. If he wants to say that the defenses Dalton faced down the stretch is the same as what Cam faced down the stretch that's fine, I'm not going to argue and it's why I didn't respond. I don't care enough to get into this debate but when you face Balt, Pitt twice, Houston, Seattle, etc and when 7/10 of your last games are against top flight opponents (in the top 10) you are going to struggle compared to someone facing 1 top 10 defense down the stretch.

I'm definitely not going to address comparing Jimmy Clausen to any respectable QB and acting like Smitty came back just because Cam but ignoring the fact that Smitty was extremely productive with Moore in the lineup, same with Gettis/LaFell.

I'm also not going to address the fact that he compares Dalton to Rodgers and Brees and acting like they should play the game the same or that his coaches would trust him to do that.

Lord knows I'm not going to address him stating that the reason we have better weapons is because of Cam. Dude said that.

He gave you all kinds of cool stats about first down % and blah blah blah but he chose to ignore that Dalton was more efficient throwing the ball than Cam in terms of TDs and Ints.

It's not worth responding, I don't care enough to argue for Dalton. He had a solid rookie year and so did Cam. Everyone move on.

So I guess your wall of text is fine but mine isn't. You have so many things wrong it is hard to know where to start.

1.Instead of using actual numbers you prefer rankings because it makes the difference look significant when it actually isn't and doesn't explain why Newton's numbers were better than Daltons.

2. The only thing you can fall back on is that Dalton threw 4 less Ints and had 1 less TDs passing. But lets ignore that Cam could have just as easily passed the ball as ran for those 14 TDs. So if we look at offensive production as total TDs as a function of INTs and fumbles lost, the difference is significant. Newton- 35/19 (1.84) versus Dalton- 21/15 (1.40)

3. Newton actually threw the ball less as the season wore on by design as we ran more. After the bye in the last 8 games, he threw for over 250 only two times and they both were losses. In the 4 games we won he didn't throw for over 208 and twice was well under 200. It didn't matter the strength of defense, it was about efficiency and scoring. He accounted for 11 TDs and 0 INTs.

And the list goes on...............

[Tarheels23]

Yeah it's funny how everyone chooses to conveniently ignore Cam's rushing TD's.

[mav1234]

I don't think they are "ignored," as they are typically mentioned whenever anyone talks about his accomplishments, but the fact is that at least some of them likely could have happened with Stew of DWill too. They are somewhat different in that they are not "passing" touchdowns which are typically how people measure the ability of a quarterback to get the ball in the endzone.

However, Cam is as much a part of our rushing offense as those guys are.

That's why I may be willing to buy that Dalton is a better pure passer(and fwiw, not totally sold on this), but that doesn't make him a better quarterback at all. There is more than just passing the ball involved with being a quarterback, and Cam is far from deficient as far as his abilities int hat area go. He still has things to work on, but EVERY quarterback does.

[Spaceballs83]

Only passes i have seen out of Dalton is the "dink and donk" passes of 10 yards and less. Doesn't Cam lead the NFL this year in completions greater that 20 yards???

[mav1234]

Only passes i have seen out of Dalton is the "dink and donk" passes of 10 yards and less. Doesn't Cam lead the NFL this year in completions greater that 20 yards???

Possible in passes that travel >20 yards, but he's below Brady, Brees, Rivers and Manning as far as "passes for 20+ yards." Still pretty nice.

Dalton has done more than "dink and dunk," btw. But he runs a very different offense.

[TheRealDeal]

Yeah it's funny how everyone chooses to conveniently ignore Cam's rushing TD's.

When talking about the "pure passer", ignoring rushing touchdowns is the only thing to do, right?

[TheRealDeal]

Only passes i have seen out of Dalton is the "dink and donk" passes of 10 yards and less. Doesn't Cam lead the NFL this year in completions greater that 20 yards???

You should watch more of his passes then.

[Spaceballs83]

i did. about 4-5 of his last games. He cannot throw the ball like Cam. Slant/Fade routes with an occasional streak or long throws. I have never seen him throw it like Cam does. Again doesnt Cam lead NFL in completed passes over 20 yards?

[mav1234]

When talking about the "pure passer", ignoring rushing touchdowns is the only thing to do, right?

even so, it is very difficult to compare the two. First of all, if you are talking about "pure passer" you have to completely throw out the "he just wins" argument, which means you'd have to focus on how they play the game. Since I doubt many of us have watched Dalton as much as Cam, that might be difficult. Stats are a poor substitute, and Cam's are pretty much just plain out better for a rookie. Mechanically, I think Dalton looks better but I have not seen nearly as much as I have of Cam, and Cam has come a hell of a long way from where he was before the season started.

If you talk about how they function in games, Cam has shown the ability to move the offense with just his arm pretty well. However, he is more effective when he uses his legs to extend plays. And tbh, Dalton actually scrambles as well, but obviously he is not as effective as Cam.

If you try to compare stats, you run into a world of problems due to the differences in offense and personnel each works with along with the defenses they have played. However, despite those difficulties I do think Cam's numbers were more impressive all things considered. Dalton had a great year and any other year he'd be the toast of the rookie class, but the reality is that Cam got it done with both his legs and his arm this year in a truly remarkable way IMO.

Now, I don't think that means he's "arrived" and is now a top 5 QB or whatever, but overall he was easily one of the most impressive rookie quarterbacks *ever.*

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

One of Dalton's main disadvantages when compared head to head to our own Cammy Cam is that he's not as tall and, as such, will occasionally be good for something like this: