Owning what you write

[X-Clown]

No, my last paragraph is not your point. Maybe I'm not conveying my message and maybe it's my opinion v yours. I don't think the "mold" is what made them overrated by the media. I think people are too quick to look at an offense's or team's success and put it on the QB, same with failure. They saw those teams improve offensive and have some success and automatically attributed it to the QB, same thing happened with VY and The Golden Calf of Bristol, neither of which fit into the mold of a traditional QB.

I think the media got burned because they didn't look at the defense as a contributor to the offense (look at Flacco not putting up any points except off of great field position from turnovers), they didn't look at the impact the running game has on the young QBs (see Ryan and Turner in ATL), they didn't look at a lot of things that might make young QBs look better than they are, and it bit them.

Wouldn't you agree then that the people who bring up The Golden Calf of Bristol and Dalton's win % constantly as a way to discredit Cam's accomplishments without acknowledging how much more our team needs to lean on our rookie QB because how putrid our defense was this year are falling into this same trap?

[mav1234]

The vast majority of times I saw TRD bringing up The Golden Calf of Bristol/Dalton's win percentage was in response to someone saying they sucked as QBs etc, not "CAM SUCKS CAUSE The Golden Calf of Bristol AND DALTON ARE WAINERS." The same thing happened to me... and hell, it's still going on, if you say anything positive about most other young quarterbacks, a bunch of people crawl out from the walls to ream you for hating Cam Newton or some bullpoo.

[TheRealDeal]

Wouldn't you agree then that the people who bring up The Golden Calf of Bristol and Dalton's win % constantly as a way to discredit Cam's accomplishments without acknowledging how much more our team needs to lean on our rookie QB because how putrid our defense was this year are falling into this same trap?

It's kind of like how people fail to acknowledge what Chud has done for this team on offense and the other weapons we have and try to compare numbers straight up between Cam and Dalton.

The argument was that Dalton was often asked to do less, but it was in no indication of what he COULD do if he were in the same scheme and had the same weapons as Cam.

People wanted to give Cam all the credit for stats, but discredit Dalton for winning. You don't get it both ways, you either considering everything about both, or you don't' draw a comparison.

[CRA]

It's kind of like how people fail to acknowledge what Chud has done for this team on offense and the other weapons we have and try to compare numbers straight up between Cam and Dalton.

The argument was that Dalton was often asked to do less, but it was in no indication of what he COULD do if he were in the same scheme and had the same weapons as Cam.

People wanted to give Cam all the credit for stats, but discredit Dalton for winning. You don't get it both ways, you either considering everything about both, or you don't' draw a comparison.

it is an educated assumption that Dalton simply could not do many of the things Cam did simply from a skill set comparison. For example, Cam converted more 3rd downs than any RB in the NFL.

[TheRealDeal]

You are right, but many regard Dalton as a better pure passer so based on an "educated assumption" Dalton might have thrown for 5,000 yards.

[fieryprophet]

You are right, but many regard Dalton as a better pure passer so based on an "educated assumption" Dalton might have thrown for 5,000 yards.

Actually, if you had bothered to watch any of Cincy's games as they got closer towards playoffs contention you would see that the Bengals repeatedly try to push the ball downfield as their opponents started crowding the running game and trying to force Dalton to beat them, and he struggled more and more the longer the season went on. The Bengals asked Dalton to do more, and he couldn't, having one of his worst games of the season in their playoff game vs. Houston.

And, no, many do NOT consider Dalton the better passer, just because you assume people aren't well-informed enough to call you out on your farcical comments doesn't mean they are any more correct. Even KC Joyner, who wrote around midseason that he thought Dalton should win RoTY based on his passing abilities alone, later admitted that Dalton regressed and Cam overtook him in that department as well.

Seriously, grow the fug up and get a life away from this board, you're a fugging embarrassment to yourself.

[CRA]

You are right, but many regard Dalton as a better pure passer so based on an "educated assumption" Dalton might have thrown for 5,000 yards.

many pre draft viewed anyone as a better pure passer for the most part.....and that simply using biased opinions as fact.

If you watched Dalton all season long....I don't think many would argue he is a better pure passer than Newton either. Both have a lot of work to do in that department in terms of being consistant....but Cam's skill set allows him to make throws Dalton simply can't.

also, it isn't an educated assumption that if given the chance Dalton would have shattered a rookie record that was shattered this year. It would have been a foolish claim to say Cam would have done what he did.

[TheRealDeal]

Actually, if you had bothered to watch any of Cincy's games as they got closer towards playoffs contention you would see that the Bengals repeatedly try to push the ball downfield as their opponents started crowding the running game and trying to force Dalton to beat them, and he struggled more and more the longer the season went on. The Bengals asked Dalton to do more, and he couldn't, having one of his worst games of the season in their playoff game vs. Houston.

And, no, many do NOT consider Dalton the better passer, just because you assume people aren't well-informed enough to call you out on your farcical comments doesn't mean they are any more correct. Even KC Joyner, who wrote around midseason that he thought Dalton should win RoTY based on his passing abilities alone, later admitted that Dalton regressed and Cam overtook him in that department as well.

Seriously, grow the fug up and get a life away from this board, you're a fugging embarrassment to yourself.

Down the stretch (last 8 games) Dalton faced on average, the 8.7th ranked defense in YPG and the 6.4th ranked defense in Passing YPG allowed. In comparison, Cam played the 19.8th ranked defense in YPG and the 18.4th ranked defense in Passing YPG, still think it's a fair comparison?

Cam was in a friendlier offense with better weapons against the JV of the NFL while Dalton played in a conservative offense with less weapons and played the elite teams in the NFL, at least defensively.

Dalton Passing defenses:

4

17

7

3

1

2

4

1

14

11

Cam Passing defenses:

30

21

3

20

21

15

22

14

26

12

Working backwards from week 17.

[X-Clown]

The vast majority of times I saw TRD bringing up The Golden Calf of Bristol/Dalton's win percentage was in response to someone saying they sucked as QBs etc, not "CAM SUCKS CAUSE The Golden Calf of Bristol AND DALTON ARE WAINERS."

Before you accuse other people of reading too much into things, you might want to take a look in the mirror.

It's kind of like how people fail to acknowledge what Chud has done for this team on offense and the other weapons we have and try to compare numbers straight up between Cam and Dalton.

The argument was that Dalton was often asked to do less, but it was in no indication of what he COULD do if he were in the same scheme and had the same weapons as Cam.

People wanted to give Cam all the credit for stats, but discredit Dalton for winning. You don't get it both ways, you either considering everything about both, or you don't' draw a comparison.

Chudzinski has had a very positive effect on Cam, by suiting the offense to his strengths. Not many people deny this. But I don't think it's fair either to imply that because Chudzinski helped Derek Anderson become a Pro Bowler for one season and that means that Chud can do that to any street free agent QB and therefore Cam is some sort of "system" QB. If that was the case, then why did DA drop off so badly in 2008 when Chud was still the coordinator, despite still having a Pro Bowl RB, WR, TE, and LT around him?

Dalton had a really good rookie season, but I would argue that Dalton has a very QB friendly system too. Jay Gruden was also getting HC interviews this offseason for the work he has done. AJ Green already is a Pro Bowler in his rookie year and will be a fixture there for years to come, Jermaine Gresham is an extremely underrated 2nd year tight end, Jerome Simpson is a guy who finally got playing time and developed into a solid #2 target (and showed signs of it at the end of last year after TO and Ocho got hurt) and the offensive line is solid all the way around.

[fieryprophet]

When defenses play bad Qbs, their pass defenses look better, when they play good QBs, they look worse. The AFC North has Dalton, injured Ben, Flacco, and Colt McCoy. The NFC South has Cam, Freeman, Ryan and all-time yardage king Brees. That same Pittsburgh defense that Dalton struggled against got burned by frickin' The Golden Calf of Bristol, who then got destroyed by the 31st worst pass defense in the Patriots.

Dalton is neither a better QB nor a better passer than Cam, and only imbeciles and trolls think or say otherwise. You won't find a single analyst, even long-time doubters of Cam, who say Dalton as better in any facet of the game at this point. NONE. You're the lone ranger of dumb.

For, crying out loud, even the Bengals fan sites actually agree that Cam deserves the RoTY and looks to be the better overall QB.

[CRA]

Down the stretch (last 8 games) Dalton faced on average, the 8.7th ranked defense in YPG and the 6.4th ranked defense in Passing YPG allowed. In comparison, Cam played the 19.8th ranked defense in YPG and the 18.4th ranked defense in Passing YPG, still think it's a fair comparison?

Cam was in a friendlier offense with better weapons against the JV of the NFL while Dalton played in a conservative offense with less weapons and played the elite teams in the NFL, at least defensively.

Dalton Passing defenses:

4

17

7

3

1

2

4

1

14

11

Cam Passing defenses:

30

21

3

20

21

15

22

14

26

12

Working backwards from week 17.

goes back to stats and what they really tell you......

The defenses Cam Newton faced.....often went up against the better passing offenses all year. Which clearly comes into play.

The defenses Dalton faced - overall spent the year playing against run offenses.

Stats don't tell the full story, which is why you have to watch the games. By the end of the year, there was no comparing Dalton and Newton. Newton was simply better.

There is a reason some of those teams look horrific against the pass......some faced GB, NO twice, Car twice, Atl twice, etc. Skews stuff. If that same D went up against Den twice, Hou late , etc.......it would skew things different

[panthers55]

First of all comparing the 8th ranked passing defense versus the 19th ranked passing defense in yard allowed yields a difference of 20 yards a game. So over the course of 8 games the difference would be around 160 yards. Even the opponent passer rating between the 8th ranked team and the 19th ranked team is roughly 5 points. So trying to compare quarterback performances based on pass defense ranking is lame at best. Secondly saying that Dalton's offense is more conservative is subjective as best. Conservative because they pass less? Couldn't be that because Cincy attempted more passes. Conservative because they ran more?? They ran the ball 455 and we ran 445. Couldn't be that. Conservative because they made short passes and didn't throw it down the field? That is their offense, it is WCO. Green Bay and New Orleans runs versions of it as well but they didn't seem to have a problem throwing it down the field for big yards. Or were they conservative to protect Dalton given his possible limitations. Dalton completed fewer passes 58% to Cam's 60%. He threw for an average of 6.6 yards an attempt versus Newton's 7.9 yards per attempt. His first down percentages was 30% versus Cam's 34%. Across the board Newton had better numbers, was more accurate and threw further down the field. Most of the time WCOs have much higher completion percentages because they throw much higher percentage passes and count on YAC. When that doesn't happen it suggests an accuracy issue.

Did Newton have better weapons? The reason they were better was as much due to Newton as it was because they were better to start with. Smith wasn't awful last year and great this year because he changed. What changed was the quarterback. Why does everyone who plays with Brees as a receiver seem to flourish? Couldn't be that Brees makes ordinary receivers look great. Couldn't be that Nannee's success or LaFell's improvement was due to having a quarterback who put it on target.

Some of the detractors here stretch things so far they risk pulling something. First of all who cares about Dalton here? Now that they can't naysay Newton's performance they are simple left predicting a sophomore slump. If that doesn't prove to be true, they will have to fall back on plan c.

[TheRealDeal]

There's that Wall-o-text we all love

[ed bell]

There's that Wall-o-text we all love

Well he addressed your earlier post...lots of good points in there. Not exactly a "wall of text".. "Wall of text" usually indicates a bunch of thrown together run-on sentences dancing all around the actual point being discussed, often including someone talking out of their ass.

Maybe you are looking for some other sort of response?