Michael Brockers, DT, LSU

[nagai]

If you guys like Poe over Brockers, I say just take him at 9. No point trying to trade down and risking it.

[Catalyst]

I'm starting to feel the same way.

[JawnyBlaze]

I don't feel like Brockers was climbing just because of "athletic ability". I've been high on him because of his talent and ability to dominate the middle of the trenches. And he did that better against tougher competition than Poe.

A lot of people were enamored with Brockers' build and physical tool set (the 40 and bench press aren't indicative of that), not anything that is measurable by benching or running a 40. His physical tool set is his size (which includes very little fat), his long arms. Poe's build is great for one type of DT, but Brockers has a rare build that can be exceptional if the work is put in for his technique.

I like them both, but I think Brockers' is a rare potential and from what I've seen he seems to have the right attitude to develop it. A slow 40 and low bench reps at a combine are hardly enough to tarnish his shine.

I wouldn't be upset if we got Poe, though. I would trust the decision (but I'd be keeping an eye on Brockers, wherever he went :) )

[Catalyst]

Oh, I've said all along I trust Hurney/Rivera to make the right pick. Hurney's never missed in the 1st round and Rivera knows defense as well as anyone.

That said, I suppose the biggest difference between you and I with Brockers is you seem to be impressed by his play at LSU. From what I saw of him, he was good, but not great. No doubt he has a ton of potential, but I just don't see the same level of play on the field that you do. Plus, IMO, Brockers has the bigger bust potential.

[JawnyBlaze]

Fair enough

[MadHatter]

yea you made that post already

And you have been a complete dick already....what is your point?

Stop trying to be amusing like Fiz. You have only mastered the obnoxious part of his personality....you are missing the intelligence and wit aspects that makes him interesting.

[MadHatter]

I think it's all part of the process. You look for combine performances to validate what you've seen on tape to see if that will translate to the next level. It's a red flag if a guy looks fast or beastly powerful on tape, but then runs a slow 40 or does poorly lifting. It can also give you an indication that maybe you've missed something on tape on another guy. Some guy shows up and runs a 4.3 flat, you better believe scouts and coaches are going to go back and look at his tape to see if they've overlooked him for some reason.

19 reps is a major red flag, IMO. I don't care if he was prepared or not. I would expect any decent NFL prospect DT to do better than that at the drop of a hat without even knowing they were going to be lifting that day.

Brockers pro day definitely just became a lot more important. To solidify his top 15 draft status, I think he needs to put up some better numbers. He could still go in the top 15 if someone is in love, but I don't think it's a lock right now. We're still a loooooong way out though.

Exactly.

The combine is only one part of the evaluation. From their performances, here is what I THINK happens:

1. Poe showed incredible athleticism and strength. That combination is intriguing. His performance makes you take another hard look at him. You go back and re-evaluate the tape more....you bring him in for a private workout...your scrutinize him in private interviews. You don't draft just off of his combine performance, but he has to be in the mix.

2. Brockers struggled at the combine. It seemed like he was not as prepared as he should have been. He was not lifting/running....then he was lifiting/running...then his results were very disappointing. As a FO, I am interested in that. I want to know why he made those decisions....I want to evaluate whether he put in the preparatory effort for the combine....I want to dig deeper because he put on a disappointing performance. It does NOT mean that he necessarily should not be the pick.

Some are definitely putting too much focus on the combine, yet some are not putting enough focus on the combine.

Given how this staff and FO did their due diligence on Cam (and absolutely made the correct decision), I believe that they will do the same with this pick.

[Actionman0z]

Regardless of if he thought he was lifting or not, he should have sat down on the bench and done 25 reps plus. 19 is a disgrace for someone that big, and his times and position drill work was weak and sloppy. No thanks.

[DaCityKats]

athletic ability was part of the reason why i liked Brockers, and i thought he was going to put on a show yesterday. he did not show up like i thought yesterday and this has to slow down all the talk on potential. im still a fan of his at 9 based off games i watched, but Poe could move up a bunch in interviews and private workouts. hopefully he will be brought in by the panthers.

and if we pass on Poe no way KC lets him go by them at 11.

[koolkatluke]

athletic ability was part of the reason why i liked Brockers, and i thought he was going to put on a show yesterday. he did not show up like i thought yesterday and this has to slow down all the talk on potential. im still a fan of his at 9 based off games i watched, but Poe could move up a bunch in interviews and private workouts. hopefully he will be brought in by the panthers.

and if we pass on Poe no way KC lets him go by them at 11.

I can see KC go Oline or WR this year. More then Dline.

[DaCityKats]

I can see KC go Oline or WR this year. More then Dline.

but they also really need a NT.

[koolkatluke]

but they also really need a NT.

Bowe is a FA and and I think Waters might retire.

[DaCityKats]

Bowe is a FA and and I think Waters might retire.

Bowe is not going any where this year, and NT Gregg will not be returning as well.

[rippadonn]

I'd be very happy if we got Brockers, Poe or Cox. But I'd rather Poe or Cox be after a trade down. The combine shouldn't have such an impact on how Poe or Brockers or pretty much anyone else are viewed (though I realize in many peoples' eyes it does) except in cases where particular traits are in question (like Jeffery and Blackmon's speed or things of that nature). And even then, their speed shouldn't affect opinions of them THAT much since they've shown how spectacular they are at catching the football (Blackmon in particular).

And in reference to the much earlier post about Poe being better than Brockers even discounting the combine and going off performance in pads, I will just have to agree to strongly disagree. Stats don't tell everything and stats don't = performance and Poe wasn't even better. Just the quantifiable stats:

Brockers (not including the BCSC where he got 7 total tackles): 54 total tackles (solo and assists combined), 10 of which for a loss, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 3 passes deflected (thought that'd be higher), and an interception.

Poe: 33 total tackles, 8 TFL, 1 sack, 3 passes deflected.

I prefer to actually watch them play and judge based off that, and in that respect Brockers was easily superior based on what videos I've watched. People have been trying to use him playing on a dominant defense as a reason why he wasn't as impressive. I believe the opposite, I believe (based on what I've watched) that defense was so dominant primarily because of two players: Claiborne and Brockers. He made the rest look better, not the other way around.

With a bit more effort in the Big10 a guy like Poe should have dominated. That goes once again to players not motivating themselves. Money is the motivation at the combine so you see every bit of speed and strength and effort. A guy can be a super elite athlete but if he isn't motivated he'll never be great.

I'll take Brockers production as a sophomore over Poe's as a junior. Poe may become a beast in the NFL but he should have beasted in the Big10.