Why was Jake considered such a saint but now its OK ro bash on J Stew?

[R0CKnR0LLA]

because we paid d-will that huge contract, there is NO CONCEIVABLE WAY we pay j-stew that much money unless we get rid of williams.

d-will was a much bigger name than stew is now last offseason, which drew more suitors and ended up with us paying a dickload of money to keep him.

so basically stewart is more valuable but he'll take less money anyway?

just like everyone said DWill would take a home team discount. $43 million, yeah some discount there

people want to delude themselves and say, oh he'll take whatever we can afford. that's not how it works. he's going to get a fat contract and further screw over an already bad cap situation or he's going to walk for nothing. those are the two options if you don't trade him.

[nickzz]

so basically stewart is more valuable but he'll take less money anyway?

just like everyone said DWill would take a home team discount. $43 million, yeah some discount there

people want to delude themselves and say, oh he'll take whatever we can afford. that's not how it works. he's going to get a fat contract and further screw over an already bad cap situation or he's going to walk for nothing. those are the two options if you don't trade him.

i'm not one of those people. sure, i hope to god it will happen (some people DO have some loyalty) but i try to be realistic.

i think j-stew is more valuable than d-will to us because he fits what we're trying to do better. if i had to pick one, i'd pick j-stew.

i don't think we'll have to pay j-stew as much simply because i doubt there will be as many teams trying to go after him. his name is still relatively unknown to people outside of carolina. unlike d-will, who has been around longer and developed a bigger name for himself with his 1500 yd 20 td season. there could be a team that values j-stew as a 50 million dollar back but i just don't see it.

[the butch]

Either you lack a basic understanding of the English language or you started an idiotic thread.

how are those two options an "either or?" if you bash someone i suspect you want to get rid of him. while people may not be "bashing" j stew, some do want to get rid of him. and that was my original question.

refrain from calling someone out if you yourself cannot express a cogent thought, must less one that is on topic.

ah, huddlers.

back on topic:

i just don't agree with getting "trade value" for an unproven running back. it's just foolish strategy, especially when he was a first rounder.

huddlers crack me up, and, to me, the delhomme-jstew comparison was a great example of the comedy on here.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

for the most part teams don't go by media hype "big names". they do in depth pro scouting and they'll see Stew as valuable. he'll get sizable contract offers. not only that his agent will have considerable leverage in the fact that Stew is now more valuable to the team to demand something similar or more than what DWill got. it'd be nice to resign him for a cheap deal but that's highly unlikely.

as far as cutting DWill to make room for Stew that's not much of an option either due to how his contract is structured. a huge amount is guaranteed and there'd be a massive cap hit for cutting him until very late into the contract, when most of the money has been paid out anyway. not to mention our FO doesn't work that way anyway

[bleys]

don't know much about that other than it having a huge signing bonus so you could be correct. either way, we have little cap-room and many needs so giving j-stew a massive contract just seems out of the question. i'm no cap guru though, could be completely off.

If we were going to let a RB walk, it would have been DWill.. there's little doubt in my mind we resign Jonathan Stewart..

by the time JStew's contract is up, I expect DWill won't be commanding much of the salary cap and if we resigned DWill while having a younger, more versatile RB already signed.. then there's little reason to expect an older DWill will be kept over a younger Stewart.. meaning, we either keep both or resign Stew, letting DWill go (in some form or fashion)...

[The Huddler]

I dont see these as the same thing. People bashed Delhomme because he was playing bad. People want to Trade J-Stew because he is very good and holds trade value. The idea is that we already have a good Rb in Deangelo and there is no sense in keeping two elite runningbacks on the same roster.

um... there is some sense buddy. It makes plenty of sense

[panthers55]

I also think it's great that we have two outstanding RB's. The fact that they split carries makes them much younger than they actually are. Williams doesn't have anywhere near the wear and tear a normal RB in his late 20's would have. Both players have a ton of elite years left in them. We would be stupid as hell to trade either of them. They may not be putting up elite rushing yardage or TD's, but just look at the yards per carry. That tells the entire story. If we were to lose one of them our efficiency would go way down the drain.

Agree with you.

People who want to get rid of either of them also don't seem to remember

that we have had issues keeping them both healthy in past years. Get rid of one of them and have the other get hurt for even a few games and we are screwed. Sure we can bring in someone else perhaps even cheaper but as you noted, both of them averaged 5.4 yards per carry with was top 7 in the league. Plus they complement each other so well. Stewart is great between the tackles and against quick defenders. Williams is fantastic on the edges and is great against slower bigger defenders. They are a perfect duo and frankly it would be a big mistake to get rid of either of them as long as they both can average over 5 yards a carry.

In 2013 the cap will expand by a bunch with the new TV deal. So when he wants a new deal in 2013 we will have 20 million more in cap space to accomodate him. And who knows if Williams will be as productive as he has been this year. If he isn't we can cut him and spread the cap hit over 2 years and do fairly well. But like you said for right now they are both very productive.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

i don't think we'll have to pay j-stew as much simply because i doubt there will be as many teams trying to go after him. his name is still relatively unknown to people outside of carolina. unlike d-will, who has been around longer and developed a bigger name for himself with his 1500 yd 20 td season. there could be a team that values j-stew as a 50 million dollar back but i just don't see it.

without a doubt...the worst post in this thread.

[mav1234]

I don't think anyone "wants" to get rid of one of them (well some seem to be weird about ditching DWill for whatever reason), but there is some logic behind the idea that unless DWill restructures OR JStew takes a huge hometown discount, we are going to be unable to afford keeping both of them plus the rest of the offense. And rather than letting JStew go some place else to the highest bidder, maybe we can get something good out of him now. (Could replace D-Will in there, but Stew's value is higher in a trade, tho neither have a ton of value as RBs are a dime a dozen)

[nickzz]

without a doubt...the worst post in this thread.

care to elaborate?

probably not, rofl.

[Wither]

Not sure how this is similar to Delhomme at all but maybe I'm forgetting how people around here acted about it.

[chef17]

Not sure how this is similar to Delhomme at all but maybe I'm forgetting how people around here acted about it.

They are/were both Panthers players. That's about as similar as this gets.

[chef17]

how are those two options an "either or?" if you bash someone i suspect you want to get rid of him. while people may not be "bashing" j stew, some do want to get rid of him. and that was my original question.

refrain from calling someone out if you yourself cannot express a cogent thought, must less one that is on topic.

ah, huddlers.

back on topic:

i just don't agree with getting "trade value" for an unproven running back. it's just foolish strategy, especially when he was a first rounder.

huddlers crack me up, and, to me, the delhomme-jstew comparison was a great example of the comedy on here.

Except for the fact that people wanted Jake cut instead of trading and Stew not being bashed. But take away those differences and your comparison is spot on

[panthers55]

I don't think anyone "wants" to get rid of one of them (well some seem to be weird about ditching DWill for whatever reason), but there is some logic behind the idea that unless DWill restructures OR JStew takes a huge hometown discount, we are going to be unable to afford keeping both of them plus the rest of the offense. And rather than letting JStew go some place else to the highest bidder, maybe we can get something good out of him now. (Could replace D-Will in there, but Stew's value is higher in a trade, tho neither have a ton of value as RBs are a dime a dozen)

I think we will be able to afford both of them. Remember that the salary cap will go markedly up in 2013 when the new TV contract drives revenue up significantly. Plus it is likely going to be a buyer's market in 2012 with 1/4 of all players being UFAs but with a cap close to this year, many teams will be strapped to bring them in so there may be plenty of guys on lower one year deals. So the expectations may get lowered due to 2012.

http://www.derp/2011/12/19/2646007/salary-cap-will-not-increase-in-2012

Plus Stewart counts 2.6 million against the cap next year and might get another million in incentives so his total cap hit may be closer to 3.5 million against the cap next year. If we give him the same deal that Williams got his cap price will only go up by perhaps 4 million. With the cap in 2013 likely to go up by 20 million over 2012, we should have no problem keeping both of them.