Kirkpatrick vs Morris

[KBRed]

Where'd you read that? I couldn't imagine anything the bengals would want at our position. They obviously need to give the ginger more weapons, and both Blackmon & Richardson will probably be gone at that position.

Jeffery, Floyd, & Wright, although nice receivers, aren't really worth giving up two firsts for. Just ask the Falcons how that turned out.

I don't think Richardson goes too high, but that's who the Bengals would be searching for if the trade happened. He's an elite RB, and the only other team before us that needs a decent RB is Cleveland. They won't pick him at #4.

[woody]

Not sure how some people already have judgements on Hogan. I think he may be our no. 2 guy next year though. I think we trade picks and go LB later on in the first.

[Panfan35]

I also think poe DT is going sky rocket some where in the first. After the combine and all of that, him being 6-5 350 freaky athletic and he set the bar on the bench since he is one of the srongest guys in the country.

If things do work out that we could have two 1st and a 2nd we could get DE DT and wr or TE ie. Playmaker sounds good to me.

[Jackofalltrades]

Morris has no chance of dropping to the Panthers so it's a moot point.

[ChinaPanther]

The only way to stop the modern passing attack is to get yourself a pass rush which leads me to want to select either Quinton Coples or Melvin Ingram. I'm liking Ingram the best right now because he would give Rivera scheme versatility where we can switch from both a 4-3 to a 3-4.

[JawnyBlaze]

No thanks. Scheme versatility is a nicer way of saying tweener. Hope we learned our lesson with Everette Brown. Same thing with Coples, I only want him if they think he can play either DE or DT dominantly. Otherwise he'll be too slow to be an effective DE (think Cameron Jordan on the Saints) or get pushed around as a DT (~285-290 is usually too small to be an effective 4-3 DT). Coples' stature could make him out of position in a 4-3 unless he's very athletic for his size or could put 15-20 lbs of muscle.

[ChinaPanther]

No thanks. Scheme versatility is a nicer way of saying tweener. Hope we learned our lesson with Everette Brown. Same thing with Coples, I only want him if they think he can play either DE or DT dominantly. Otherwise he'll be too slow to be an effective DE (think Cameron Jordan on the Saints) or get pushed around as a DT (~285-290 is usually too small to be an effective 4-3 DT). Coples' stature could make him out of position in a 4-3 unless he's very athletic for his size or could put 15-20 lbs of muscle.

At 8 or 9 there isn't a DT worth taking. Coples wouldn't fit a 3-4. You're pretty much locked into a 4-3 defense if you select him. He's very comparable to Peppers. Ingram is more of a fit for a 3-4 OLB but did play DE within USC's 4-3 scheme. He played much better as a OLB when he was standing up and rushing the passer. We can put Andre Branch in that mix also. Andre Branch i'm fairly certain will be successful in both fronts as a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB. Get that man in space, he will be a terror. Cameron Jordan in a 3-4 would be a defensive end or a 5-technique. Branch and Ingram if they play in a 3-4 would be 3-4 OLB's. Those guys get paid to rush the passer. I agree with you on Cameron Jordan being a tweener but Ingram and Branch are just different players to Jordan so it's hard to compare them.

[JawnyBlaze]

Oh I'm not comparing Jordan to Ingram and Branch. Jordan is comparable to Coples (bigger than 4-3 DEs usually are (meaning slower) and smaller than 4-3 DTs) while Ingram and Branch would be more comparable to Everette Brown (tweener 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE).

A lot of people make the Coples to Peppers comparison, and I can't say I've watch more on Coples than what's available on youtube, but a lot of what I've read says Coples just doesn't have the burst off the edge that Peppers has. A lot of people are saying Coples might not be quick enough for 4-3 DE, and with his size he seems to be a good fit at 3-4 DE.

[JawnyBlaze]

Although Ingram IS built a lot like CJ, I'm not trying to say he CAN'T be successful as a 4-3 DE, but 6'2 is usually a little short for the position. CJ is just special :)

[ChinaPanther]

Coples is pretty big and strong. He's not as fast as Peppers but a similar build 6'4 280+. He'll be a 3 down DE in the NFL. He will struggle getting around the edge I think but his greatest asset is his bull rush right now. When he extends his arms on a tackle he isn't going to be run blocked because of his strength and is capable of causing some havoc in the backfield both against the run and the pass. He padded his stats against weaker competition (very Peppers like) He bats down passes thrown his way (peppers like). Branch is 260 and can flat out get around the edge. Get him in space, he will flat out scare the living daylights out of lineman. When I watch branch's highlights, I see a raw version of Dwight Freeney. Branch was far more productive than Coples this year. Clemson is playing today so if your not working you could watch Branch. I've been researching and I'm liking Branch more now. Branch's ability to rush the QB is exceptional but right now Coples is the more complete of a prospect but doesn't rush the passer like Branch does. My 2 cents.

)

[rayzor]

i think if possible i'd rather trade back and pick up javoris jenkins. solid CB and if you wonder about him covering guys like julio...he did quite well against julio and aj green so i wouldn't worry about his size.

[carpanfan96]

No thanks. Scheme versatility is a nicer way of saying tweener. Hope we learned our lesson with Everette Brown. Same thing with Coples, I only want him if they think he can play either DE or DT dominantly. Otherwise he'll be too slow to be an effective DE (think Cameron Jordan on the Saints) or get pushed around as a DT (~285-290 is usually too small to be an effective 4-3 DT). Coples' stature could make him out of position in a 4-3 unless he's very athletic for his size or could put 15-20 lbs of muscle.

As with any prospect converting to the NFL is a whole another story, but he was a 2nd team All American at DT. He has a big frame and is 6-6 285 pounds with the frame to add 20 more pounds. He's already one of the strongest college players in America. Look at his 2010 film where he played DT.

Also the kid has the perfect size, frame and speed to play the 3-4 End. So he's a versatile player in that regard and the fact that he can play all 4 DL positions in a 4-3 effectively.

He's not a NFL 4-3 DE speed wise, but he's as strong as a 3-4 end or 4-3 DT and can play most positions along the DL in both the 3-4 and 4-3 because of his technique and strength.

[HeatCheck]

Don't want Kirkpatrick and Mo will be gone by our pick.

We should just wait til the 2nd round for a CB. Jenkins could be available and he is a better cover corner than Krikpatrick. Also in the 2nd you can get Minnifield or Hayward.

[JawnyBlaze]

As with any prospect converting to the NFL is a whole another story, but he was a 2nd team All American at DT. He has a big frame and is 6-6 285 pounds with the frame to add 20 more pounds. He's already one of the strongest college players in America. Look at his 2010 film where he played DT.

Also the kid has the perfect size, frame and speed to play the 3-4 End. So he's a versatile player in that regard and the fact that he can play all 4 DL positions in a 4-3 effectively.

He's not a NFL 4-3 DE speed wise, but he's as strong as a 3-4 end or 4-3 DT and can play most positions along the DL in both the 3-4 and 4-3 because of his technique and strength.

That's mostly my point. He seems better fit in a 3-4 as a DE. And we run a 4-3.

IF he adds 20 lbs, he'd be big enough to be a 4-3 DT, but it's not as simple as wearing weights around his neck.

I think he could be a very good player, and I've gotten to the point I wouldn't hate the pick if we made it, but I still have my reservations about him in a 4-3.