Steve Smith takes Cam over Tebow anyday.

[I am Hubby]

47 minutes, and 1 pee break, and I finally finished this thread. Did not learn a thing. But my Zod it was entertaining.

Thanks folks, and GOOOO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Showtime]

47 minutes, and 1 pee break, and I finally finished this thread. Did not learn a thing. But my Zod it was entertaining.

Thanks folks, and GOOOO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's pretty bad if you actually read it and didn't learn anything.

[CatMan72]

I learned that The Golden Calf of Bristol projects to be the greatest QB in the history of the NFL based on 198 passing attempts @ 6.5 yards per attempt.

[Wyank]

I learned that The Golden Calf of Bristol projects to be the greatest QB in the history of the NFL based on 198 passing attempts @ 6.5 yards per attempt.

Already is the greatest QB in the history of the NFL. We are all blessed to have the chance to witness him step onto the field.

[Jangler]

[Skew]

...

[Showtime]

I learned that The Golden Calf of Bristol projects to be the greatest QB in the history of the NFL based on 198 passing attempts @ 6.5 yards per attempt.

You would learn something like that.

You can understand yard average(which is heavily dependent on receivers) but you don't seem to be able to grasp "interceptions per attempt" or quarterback rating.

Hmmm....why is that? That's a mystery.

[Wither]

If you read this entire thread...

[BBQ&Beer]

You would learn something like that.

You can understand yard average(which is heavily dependent on receivers) but you don't seem to be able to grasp "interceptions per attempt" or quarterback rating.

Hmmm....why is that? That's a mystery.

Lol! This from a guy who thinks a three & out is a turnover on downs.

[Showtime]

Lol! This from a guy who thinks a three & out is a turnover on downs.

I was referring to turnovers other than fumbles or interceptions. Some of you get stuck on wording versus the larger point. The point was a 3 and out is still a turnover. How would you group a turnover on downs and a turnover following a forced punt? Aren't they both turnovers on downs? In fact they are all turnovers on downs, aren't they? They all take place "on a down". They just have different labels. And that's what causes issues with some stats. Some things get through the cracks because of how some of them are tracked while others that may be even more important are not paid any attention.

When it comes to the affect on a defense a 3 and out can sometimes affect their ability to stop opponents from scoring more than an interception or a fumble in our opponent's red-zone. Especially if you have a bad punt, and even more so if you have a bad punter and you are backed up in your own half of the field.

The point is, the place where you actually turn over the ball to your opponent is what hurts your defense the most, not they type. The issue is field position. Just like an offense benefits from good starting field position so does a defense from good defending field position.

[Showtime]

Actually again it is false that " No NFL defense really does...but if ours doesn't, they suck"

Not only do normal NFL defenses get stops when the other team gets the ball at the 30... it actually happens more often than not. Here is a graph from Advanced NFL Statistics about where teams get the ball and how often it correlates to TDs and FGs.

Actually if you look at the graph the likelihood of teams scoring a TD when they get the ball at the 30 yards line is just under 40%. The normal teams only get a TD around 39% of the time when they get the ball at the 30 yards line and that number predictably goes down was the other team gets further away from the goal line with their starting field position.

So as this chart shows, not only do NFL defenses in fact stop teams from scoring TDs when the other team gets the ball on the 30 yard line, it actually should happen more often than not.

How the hell did I missed this? I'm not sure where you get your numbers from half the time since you never post sources but your FG rate looks retarded. I'm pretty sure that graphs breaks scores down by downs. The average offense red-zone TD efficiency is OVER 50%.

LOL. You are terrible at stats and understanding what you are looking at.

And this is just another perfect example of you twisting a statement, and then only using half of the data to suit your argument or presenting it out of context(what year, what are they really measuring). I was mainly referring to any type of "score" close to or in the red-zone. Not just touchdowns, but just scores in general. Here's what a FG chart really looks like:

By field position:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/11/just-for-kicks.html

By FG distance:

http://www.bookofodds.com/Daily-Life-Activities/Sports/Articles/A0153-Behind-the-Numbers-It-s-Easier-to-Kick-a-Field-Goal-Today

So basically if you turn the ball in close or in the red zone the average offense has 80%+ for some sort of score. There's some teams that have a much higher red-zone percentage btw, even ours.

Titans red-zone efficiency for a TD is 71% this year. GB is 61%. Detroit 58%. Atlanta. Minnesota, Chicago is 55%. Jacksonville, Minnesota 54%. All top half half in the league...all our opponents...4 are top 10).

So, sorry but you're not going to stop these guys from scoring something on you no matter who you are when you give them the ball at the 30. Like I said, no defense can really stop an offense from scoring once they make it in FG range. Only if the offense or quarterback is retarded. The least they should come away with is a FG. Which is why statistically, a turnover is worth at least 3.5 points anywhere on the field. Because sometimes they get field goals, and other times they score touchdowns.

Your favorite site actually gives it a greater value. It tells you this:

And that was in 2002. Just for the record the league is even more pass happy and offensively driven today. This is just for passing TD's:

Year Touchdowns Interceptions

2002 694 528

2003 654 538

2004 732 524

2005 644 506

2006 648 520

2007 720 534

2008 646 465

2009 703 517

2010 746 510

(notice 2008 the year Tom Brady got hurt- Patriots alone took a 25 TD nose dive compared to 07...the rest of it had a lot to do with their opponents too..had to score more in 2007 to try and keep up.)

Also notice touchdowns/interception ratios. Interceptions are even more important today and you should have less than QB's did 10 years ago if you wanna compete. The rules have continued to help offense.

By comparison:

1975 26 433 533

1976 28 432 497

1977 28 388 562

1978 28 468 639

More interceptions than touchdowns.

30's

1935 64 238

1936 67 216

Numbers are a lot lower due to teams, by the ratio is four times as many interceptions as touchdowns! Defense mattered in those days.

And then in 1937 points got a small bump:

1937 90 206

Know why? Well an extra team did join the league, but interceptions didn't really seem to increase. That year the NFL made it a rule for players to have NUMBERS on shirts, and had to be visible. QB's weren't as blind.;p; Thought that would be a fun history lesson.

Anyway, to get back to the point, a turnover, no matter where it takes place: it's value is worth more than FG: 3.75 points. And that's for an average offense in 2002. For an efficient pass happy offense in 2011, it's worth even more, especially in the red-zone. So when you take into consideration FG's as well as TD's and you face efficient offenses like the Packers in 2011 and you turn over the ball in your own red-zone or close to it...you're fuged.

[CatMan72]

You would learn something like that.

You can understand yard average(which is heavily dependent on receivers) but you don't seem to be able to grasp "interceptions per attempt" or quarterback rating.

Hmmm....why is that? That's a mystery.

I do understand, and it shows that right now The Golden Calf of Bristol is the best QB in the NFL and projects to be the greatest of all-time...

[CatMan72]

Steve Young must be a homer, because he would take Cam over The Golden Calf of Bristol as well:

He must not be aware of Cam's YPP and The Golden Calf of Bristol's INT per attempt (avg 18 attempts per game) ratio?

[MWCarolina]

I learned that The Golden Calf of Bristol projects to be the greatest QB in the history of the NFL based on 198 passing attempts @ 6.5 yards per attempt.

hahaha seriously right. and what's funny is i love The Golden Calf of Bristol and HOPE he's the greatest QB in history, i really do, that's how much i like The Golden Calf of Bristol. as long as The Golden Calf of Bristol is in Denver, they are my 3rd favorite team, BUT i cant agree and say that he's better than Cam. Most people on sports shows say that and they have no reason to like Cam better, but do. everyone likes The Golden Calf of Bristol's intangibles, but he needs to improve as a passer, this game will tells us ALOT about The Golden Calf of Bristol.