Steve Smith takes Cam over Tebow anyday.

[CatMan72]

I'm trying to figure out why I'm even bothering to discuss Cam with TRD?

[TheRealDeal]

So the playbook would be the tangible item, not the scheme, correct?

[Showtime]

So forget about the 14 points he gave us, plus the easy 3 he put Mare into position to score, plus the 7 our defense gave up on the first play of the next drive.

Like I have said. Cam does a lot of good things, he also does a lot of bad things that keeps us from winning and MUST be cleaned up. Picks and turnovers matter more than the points put up. 3 and out or a stalled drive is also a turnover.

You can overcome a single interception. Especially if its past midfield. It's hard to overcome 2 or 1 thrown in your own followed by a number of 3 and outs by your offense. It's hard for any defense not to allow a score when your offense does this for the entire second half.

Super Elite

Aaron Rodger's interception per pass efficiency: 1 per 73

Alex Smith: 1 per 72

Elite

Aaron Rodgers(career): 1 per 53

Tom Brady(career): 1 per 45

Great

Drew Brees: 1 per 49

Tom Brady: 1 per 45

Matt Moore: 1 per 45

Matt Ryan: 1 for 42

Average

Payton Manning(career): 1 per 36

Mathew Stafford: 1 per 36

Andy Dalton: 1 per 35

Blaine Gabbert: 1 per 35

Bad

Cam Newton: 1 for 29

Michael Vick: 1 per 28

Phillip Rivers: 1 per 28

Josh Freeman: 1 per 25

Michael Vick(career): 1 per 23

Christian Ponder: 1 per 21

"Perfect"

N/A

Godly

The Golden Calf of Bristol: 1 per 99

This is why defense's can't do poo about takeaways and also the reason your defense gets scored on. There's a huge difference between a defense facing Aaron Rodgers, Smith, The Golden Calf of Bristol and Cam Newton or a defense having to deal with one on his own team.

It's practically impossible to "pick off" The Golden Calf of Bristol. He will throw a pick if he wants to. That means this dude cannot possibly be as inaccurate as people say. Inaccurate quarterbacks get picked off. The Golden Calf of Bristol's not one of those. The Golden Calf of Bristol's got a bad completion % which means he's got crappy receivers and he does.

"But Cam has to be Perfect for us to win!" Like I have been saying it would be nice if he was just average.

[mav1234]

if a 3 and out is a turnover, the Broncos have more turnovers than we do...

[Actionman0z]

The problem with that stat, is the more games you play and passes you throw the lower that number will get. Also, keep in mind that 50% of all passes The Golden Calf of Bristol does throw are not catchable by either team.

[-13 Amp-]

inaccurate can also mean how many completed passes, or a completion % less than 50%...which is The Golden Calf of Bristol...not just interceptions...esp when he has less than HALF the attempts then the people on ur list..

you just said someone was better than Aaron Rodgers this year...your out of your mind

[CatMan72]

I guess we could use Cam the same way Denver is using The Golden Calf of Bristol and Cam might even be more effective at that game then The Golden Calf of Bristol is, but would that be taking full advantage of Cam's potential? Would that be in our best interests in the long run?

We might have been able to squeeze out a few more wins this year by using Cam primarily as a runner and only asking him to average 18 passing attempts per game, but would it be worth it?

It's funny that Fox was always criticized for being a "win now" guy and not wanting to spend time developing young players. Wouldn't the Broncos long-term interests be better served by sacrificing a few wins for the sake of developing The Golden Calf of Bristol into a more complete QB?

[teeray]

Like I have said. Cam does a lot of good things, he also does a lot of bad things that keeps us from winning and MUST be cleaned up. Picks and turnovers matter more than the points put up. 3 and out or a stalled drive is also a turnover.

You can overcome a single interception. Especially if its past midfield. It's hard to overcome 2 or 1 thrown in your own followed by a number of 3 and outs by your offense. It's hard for any defense not to allow a score when your offense does this for the entire second half.

Super Elite

Aaron Rodger's interception per pass efficiency: 1 per 73

Alex Smith: 1 per 72

Elite

Aaron Rodgers(career): 1 per 53

Tom Brady(career): 1 per 45

Great

Drew Brees: 1 per 49

Tom Brady: 1 per 45

Matt Moore: 1 per 45

Matt Ryan: 1 for 42

Average

Payton Manning(career): 1 per 36

Mathew Stafford: 1 per 36

Andy Dalton: 1 per 35

Blaine Gabbert: 1 per 35

Bad

Cam Newton: 1 for 29

Michael Vick: 1 per 28

Phillip Rivers: 1 per 28

Josh Freeman: 1 per 25

Michael Vick(career): 1 per 23

Christian Ponder: 1 per 21

"Perfect"

N/A

Godly

The Golden Calf of Bristol: 1 per 99

This is why defense's can't do poo about takeaways and also the reason your defense gets scored on. There's a huge difference between a defense facing Aaron Rodgers, Smith, The Golden Calf of Bristol and Cam Newton or a defense having to deal with one on his own team.

It's practically impossible to "pick off" The Golden Calf of Bristol. He will throw a pick if he wants to. That means this dude cannot possibly be as inaccurate as people say. Inaccurate quarterbacks get picked off. The Golden Calf of Bristol's not one of those. The Golden Calf of Bristol's got a bad completion % which means he's got crappy receivers and he does.

"But Cam has to be Perfect for us to win!" Like I have been saying it would be nice if he was just average.

Jake Delhomme in 2003 INT per pass: 27.8

Sooooo... once again worse than Cam. We are 4-9. They played in a Super Bowl.

In an added note, for their careers:

Matt Moore 1 INT per 28.5 passes

Jake 1 INT per 29 passes for career.

Haven't you sung these guys praises the last couple of years (remember the long dissertation on pantherstalk you linked a dozen times)?? Are they held to a different standard or were they terrible also??

[Showtime]

Okay cool. So you agree that Cam is a better passer than Jake Delhomme was in 2003 right??

2003 Jake: 80.6

Cam: 81.1

So why aren't we competing for a Super Bowl like they did but instead are 4-9??

LOL

LOL. WTF, you mean you gotta ask this question? Now I am convinced. Teeray is not a Panthers fan. We were Tebowmania before Tebowmania happened.

-2003 4th quarter comebacks: 8 Jake Delhomme.

-All time leaders in comeback wins: #21 Jake Delhomme(he's been practically retired for 2 years)

-Tied for most post-season road victories by a quarterback in NFL history

-Longest pass in the Super Bowl in NFL History (85 yard pass to Mushin Muhammad)

-Greatest 4h quarter comeback in Super Bowl history up to 2004: Jake Delhomme. He's the first to do this in a Super Bowl.

-X-Clown. Double over time. Delhomme to Smith even after our kicker chocked and let us down.

-Most consecutive OT wins in the road: 2003 Carolina Panthers.

Not to mention Delhomme's leadership and the fact we were playing for something more than ourselves that year, especially our D. When Cam gets this down, we can too. Jake threw 16 pics that year, but he fuging made up for it late! He finished. I've said it all year, 1 pick won't kill us if you can finish the game.

[Swaiy]

I guess we could use Cam the same way Denver is using The Golden Calf of Bristol and Cam might even be more effective at that game then The Golden Calf of Bristol is, but would that be taking full advantage of Cam's potential? Would that be in our best interests in the long run?

We might have been able to squeeze out a few more wins this year by using Cam primarily as a runner and only asking him to average 18 passing attempts per game, but would it be worth it?

It's funny that Fox was always criticized for being a "win now" guy and not wanting to spend time developing young players. Wouldn't the Broncos long-term interests be better served by sacrificing a few wins for the sake of developing The Golden Calf of Bristol into a more complete QB?

The goal every season is to win. That doesn't mean Fox isn't developing him. The Golden Calf of Bristol was terrible in the offense Kyle Orton was running. They switched to an offense he was more comfortable with. Week after week they ask him to do a little more than the last.

While he isn't being developed in the same manner as Newton, it doesn't mean that he isn't being developed at all. You don't just say to hell with the season and "sacrifice wins." That's not how you keep your job.

[teeray]

LOL. WTF, you mean you gotta ask this question? Now I am convinced. Teeray is not a Panthers fan. We were Tebowmania before Tebowmania happened.

-2003 4th quarter comebacks: 8 Jake Delhomme.

-All time leaders in comeback wins: #21 Jake Delhomme(he's been practically retired for 2 years)

-Tied for most post-season road victories by a quarterback in NFL history

-Longest pass in the Super Bowl in NFL History (85 yard pass to Mushin Muhammad)

-Greatest 4h quarter comeback in Super Bowl history up to 2004: Jake Delhomme. He's the first to do this in a Super Bowl.

-X-Clown. Double over time. Delhomme to Smith even after our kicker chocked and let us down.

-Most consecutive OT wins in the road: 2003 Carolina Panthers.

Not to mention Delhomme's leadership and the fact we were playing for something more than ourselves that year, especially our D. When Cam gets this down, we can too.

So you are saying that QB rating isn't a reflection of how good a passer you are?? I am confused. Just trying to follow your logic.

Plus I never said Cam was better than Jake. Jake is my all-time favorite Panther. You just jumped to that conclusion. I was just illustrating the flaw in the logic.

[teeray]

LOL. WTF, you mean you gotta ask this question? Now I am convinced. Teeray is not a Panthers fan. We were Tebowmania before Tebowmania happened.

-2003 4th quarter comebacks: 8 Jake Delhomme.

-All time leaders in comeback wins: #21 Jake Delhomme(he's been practically retired for 2 years)

-Tied for most post-season road victories by a quarterback in NFL history

-Longest pass in the Super Bowl in NFL History (85 yard pass to Mushin Muhammad)

-Greatest 4h quarter comeback in Super Bowl history up to 2004: Jake Delhomme. He's the first to do this in a Super Bowl.

-X-Clown. Double over time. Delhomme to Smith even after our kicker chocked and let us down.

-Most consecutive OT wins in the road: 2003 Carolina Panthers.

Not to mention Delhomme's leadership and the fact we were playing for something more than ourselves that year, especially our D. When Cam gets this down, we can too. Jake threw 16 pics that year, but he fuging made up for it late! He finished. I've said it all year, 1 pick won't kill us if you can finish the game.

It also helped that our 2003 defense only gave up more than 24 points twice in 16 games despite all those turnovers. This defense has given up 24 points or more in 9 of our 13 games.

#mustbenice

[Showtime]

So you are saying that QB rating isn't a reflection of how good a passer you are?? I am confused. Just trying to follow your logic.

Plus I never said Cam was better than Jake. Jake is my all-time favorite Panther. You just jumped to that conclusion. I was just illustrating the flaw in the logic.

No Teeray. QB passer rating is THE BEST rating for how good a passer you are.

You have it backwards. Passer rating isn't a reflection of how good a QB you are. It's just a reflection of how good a passer you are.

It's just a reflection of your ability to pass.

4th quarter comebacks is a reflection of your ability to handle pressure as a quarterback.

Leadership, is something that's not really measurable by any stat. However, QB rating still correlates directly to wins, and basically the only way to overcome it is the 4th quarter comeback.

[teeray]

To put things in perspective, if this team had a similar defense to 2003, a defense that defended more possessions per game than we do this season, had an offense that turned the ball over slightly more than 2011, and dealt with worse starting field position per possession than our current team.

Well we would be 10-3 right now. We gave up 18.3 points per game that season. We have topped that mark in 10 of our 13 games.

If the 2003 team had this defense they would have been 1-15.