Unbiased website. Newton vs Tebow

[mav1234]

I think "better passer" is something that could easily be argued. He's certainly a better game manager and he is undoubtedly better at protecting the ball, but there are other areas of the passing game he is much, much weaker. This is obviously an area that is very hard to compare with stats because of how radically different the offenses are, even ignoring the QBs.

I don't think there is any question the Broncos are a better team than the Panthers, but I'm not sold that The Golden Calf of Bristol is a better player than Cam overall, though he certainly is winning when it counts.

[TheRealDeal]

It comes down to what you look for in a player. Remember when Cam Newton was touted as a "winner" coming out. People cited his junior college days, his Florida days, his Auburn days, etc, now all of the sudden he's a loser and being a "winner" doesn't matter?

You can have the most physically gifted player but if they aren't mentally tough, aren't a leader, can't dig deep into their soul when times get tough to not give up, not lay down, what good are they? I've never seen a switch like The Golden Calf of Bristol has.

I don't know what it is, but The Golden Calf of Bristol has something Cam does not. Will it last forever? Not really sure but it sure is interesting to watch.

[Eazy-E]

The Golden Calf of Bristol is a second year player who had an entire training camp when he came into the league. He got to sit his entire first year except for a few games. Cam came in with no training camp after a lockout and did things no rookie QB has ever done before.

Cam Newton has completed 70+ more passes than The Golden Calf of Bristol even has attempts. The Golden Calf of Bristol does not throw picks because he doesn't throw the ball.

People are acting like the Broncos are winning because of The Golden Calf of Bristol and the Panthers are losing because of Cam. It is a team sport and right now the Broncos are the better team.

Take away 4 of the Broncos starters on Defense and give them Olindo Mare and lets see The Golden Calf of Bristol work his magic.

[mav1234]

I didn't think you cared for the argument that he was a winner in college, why does it really matter now in his first year with a beat up team? I certainly never put stock in what Cam won in college. As to this year, it's pretty clear that while Cam contributes to losses, we also have a variety of deficiencies as a team as a whole. A punt is basically giving away points like two or three points to our opponents on average it seems like. A mistake on offense, no matter who the player is that causes it, nearly guarantees we fall behind.

I dunno, I think it does The Golden Calf of Bristol a disservice to say "what he has that Cam doesn't have" is a good team around him, because he is playing well, but honestly... that's a large part of what it is.

The Golden Calf of Bristol is clutch, no doubt about it... and his win against the Vikings really made me respect him much more. But you have games like yesterday, where his kicker nails a 60 yard field goal and a 52 yard field goal, his opponents make ridiculous mistakes that have nothing to do with him, and everyone talks about how great he is. Yes, he's great in the 4th... But the story should be how the Bears gave that game away and The Golden Calf of Bristol and Prater won it for the Broncos, not "The Golden Calf of Bristol AWESOME WOO"

[TheRealDeal]

The Golden Calf of Bristol is a second year player who had an entire training camp when he came into the league. He got to sit his entire first year except for a few games. Cam came in with no training camp after a lockout and did things no rookie QB has ever done before.

Cam Newton has completed 70+ more passes than The Golden Calf of Bristol even has attempts. The Golden Calf of Bristol does not throw picks because he doesn't throw the ball.

People are acting like the Broncos are winning because of The Golden Calf of Bristol and the Panthers are losing because of Cam. It is a team sport and right now the Broncos are the better team.

Take away 4 of the Broncos starters on Defense and give them Olindo Mare and lets see The Golden Calf of Bristol work his magic.

That's why it's important to look at picks per attempt. The Golden Calf of Bristol throws a pick every 99 attempts. Cam throws them every 28 :eek:

Take away 4 of our best weapons on offense and lets see how Cam does?

[frash.exe]

cam could drive down to the 5 yard line against the same team, have Mare miss a 15 yard field goal to tie it at the end of regulation and people would say The Golden Calf of Bristol's superior based on getting the win

[carolinarolls]

John Fox's success makes me :puke:

[mav1234]

Take away 4 of our best weapons on offense, give Cam another full year in camp, a run first head coach that runs like 30+ times a game, a defense that is allowing an average of just over 20 points per game in that stretch, not to mention the defense/special teams touchdowns etc...

I mean really, the Broncos offense does seem to suck compared to ours but look at their defense and special teams. Bolstered by The Golden Calf of Bristol? Yes, but they are playing very well overall the last few games, even despite that. Multiple 50+ yard FGs, special teams returns for TDs, defensive TDs, turnovers, allowing only 1 TD in 5 of The Golden Calf of Bristol's games... I mean really. The Golden Calf of Bristol HAS helped but he is also getting help... and he's the first one to admit that.

[thunderraiden]

Ever since reading that thread from bodybuilding.com where the guy pee'd and poo'd all over some girl's bathroom because he forgot his pee bottle' date=' I find it very hard to read anything from their forum without snickering a bit[/quote']

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120921191&highlight=pee+bottle

for anyone that was wondering what he was talking about. I was, i found it, i laughed all over the floor.

[Eazy-E]

That's why it's important to look at picks per attempt. The Golden Calf of Bristol throws a pick every 99 attempts. Cam throws them every 28 :eek:

Take away 4 of our best weapons on offense and lets see how Cam does?

Pick per attempt doesn't mean anything when the QB is hardly ever throwing the ball.

452 attempts to 198. tell me who is going to have more picks. Also let me know when The Golden Calf of Bristol has 40+ att in a single game.

Oh and please tell me who the 4 best offensive starters who are not currently playing on the Broncos are? Or did you not understand what I meant?

[TheRealDeal]

I didn't think you cared for the argument that he was a winner in college, why does it really matter now in his first year with a beat up team? I certainly never put stock in what Cam won in college. As to this year, it's pretty clear that while Cam contributes to losses, we also have a variety of deficiencies as a team as a whole. A punt is basically giving away points like two or three points to our opponents on average it seems like. A mistake on offense, no matter who the player is that causes it, nearly guarantees we fall behind.

I dunno, I think it does The Golden Calf of Bristol a disservice to say "what he has that Cam doesn't have" is a good team around him, because he is playing well, but honestly... that's a large part of what it is.

The Golden Calf of Bristol is clutch, no doubt about it... and his win against the Vikings really made me respect him much more. But you have games like yesterday, where his kicker nails a 60 yard field goal and a 52 yard field goal, his opponents make ridiculous mistakes that have nothing to do with him, and everyone talks about how great he is. Yes, he's great in the 4th... But the story should be how the Bears gave that game away and The Golden Calf of Bristol and Prater won it for the Broncos, not "The Golden Calf of Bristol AWESOME WOO"

The reason The Golden Calf of Bristol is the story is because he's the only change in the team since they started going 7-1. It's not like they got 8 starters back, they changed 1 guy and all of the sudden a bad team is good? It speaks to his leadership, ball control, and ability to make his teammates better.

At first it was "Let's see if he can beat a good team like the Jets" and he did, then it was "Let's see if he can beat a good offensive team" and his offense carried the game against the Vikes. He's beaten division rivals, AFC Champ contenders, NFC Champ contenders, almost everyone they put in his path.

There is something to be said for being 7-1, throwing TDs every 18 attempts and interceptions only every 99 attempts. You keep your offense on the field, don't put your defense in bad spots, and you can play ball control, field position football until an opportunity for the win presents itself.

People bitch about their defense and how they are winning, we had a chance to build a defensive winner, we chose to be exciting instead. We had a chance to build a team how you are supposed to, in the trenches and on defense, and we chose not to yet we hate a kid that was placed on a team that followed that path and is 7-1 with him at the helm?

Not me.

[mav1234]

The whole "TDs per attempt" thing is a terrible way to compare these two offenses, and you know it. Look at the way they are run; they are NOTHING alike... The Golden Calf of Bristol is super clutch, but you are better off looking at how many TDs both offenses get per drive, and even that is flawed since the skill level is very different between the two offenses.

Remember that last year the Broncos went for "exciting." This year they drafted, built, focused on defense.

You are right that the one player that changed was The Golden Calf of Bristol, but what also changed was offensive philosophy. The Broncos are throwing the ball like 20 less times per game and running it like 15 more times. Part of that is that they aren't getting down big, part of that is that Fox knows The Golden Calf of Bristol struggles with throws not out of the shotgun and he wants to eat up clock on the ground.

You are right there is something to be said for the record and The Golden Calf of Bristol's ball control. By no means am I saying he is bad, but I am saying that saying he's a better passer than Cam is a bit silly and in many ways it is hard to make that comparison, especially based on stats. If you want to say right now he's a "winning quarterback" and Cam isn't, there's something to that as well. But really the reality is that the Broncos as a team are winning and the Panthers as a team are losing.

if The Golden Calf of Bristol is such a winner, why did he go 1-2 as a rookie? Why didn't he transform the Broncos immediately into a power house?

[TheRealDeal]

Pick per attempt doesn't mean anything when the QB is hardly ever throwing the ball.

452 attempts to 198. tell me who is going to have more picks. Also let me know when The Golden Calf of Bristol has 40+ att in a single game.

Why does he have to have 40 attempts?

Obviously Cam is going to have more picks, he's not a very good passer and has more attempts.

I don't think you understand how picks per attempts works. Cam throws interceptions at a rate 3 times higher than The Golden Calf of Bristol. That's crazy considering how slow and terrible The Golden Calf of Bristol's motion is. Wait, it gets crazier. The Golden Calf of Bristol throws TDs at a rate twice as high as Cam Newton. fug. Throws more TDs and less Ints? Beast mode.

[TheRealDeal]

if The Golden Calf of Bristol is such a winner, why did he go 1-2 as a rookie? Why didn't he transform the Broncos immediately into a power house?

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Overall 8-3 as a starter?