Cam vs Tim

[Showtime]

Might want to check who won and lost games this week, buddy. ;)

Ok but you just said it was better for the year. I once again showed proof that backed up what I'm saying, and that what you were saying isn't actually correct.

Now you are changing your argument again. I'm not going to go through and do it again for this week because I already know 99% of the time it's the more efficient offenses. As is typically the case. I'm not the one that needs to prove or back up what he's saying at this point. It seems to me you're the one that continues to be unconvinced despite proof so go through it yourself. Not to mention season rankings say more than a one week ranking anyway.

The point is neither PPG or yards say anything about the Panther's offense issues. It doesn't explain it. While efficiency does. And it's dead on about it. And has been this entire year.

[TheRealDeal]

When the time calls for it, go ahead. I don't do it often unless I feel very strongly about three games and I don't parlay more than three although sometimes I will do two different 3 team parlays as a hedge.

I think it was two seasons ago I parlayed 8 games ATS because I was going to the lake for the weekend and couldn't watch anyway so I wouldn't trip out and the last game I needed to hit was the Panthers at Dallas -10 and they won 21-14.

Cash Money

[mav1234]

you can't just like, show random win losses and go "THERE! I proved you wrong!!!" You didn't show anything at all...

I never once changed my argument. My first post on this matter was clear, let me quote it for you:

actually ypp does not correlate to winning better than points per game ... hell, point differential is what correlates best.

The point is neither PPG or yards say anything about the Panther's offense issues. It doesn't explain it...

That's because maybe, just maybe, our offense has not been our primary issue for the entire season...

We lost a game where we had one of the best YPPs in the league, and we lost a game where we had a better YPP than our opposition.

[teeray]

I think it was two seasons ago I parlayed 8 games ATS because I was going to the lake for the weekend and couldn't watch anyway so I wouldn't trip out and the last game I needed to hit was the Panthers at Dallas -10 and they won 21-14.

Cash Money

They Dallas or they Carolina won 21-14??

What did you get paid because if you hit all 8 games ATS the payout would be pretty huge. Likely 5 figures on even a smallish bet.

[TheRealDeal]

They Dallas or they Carolina won 21-14??

What did you get paid because if you hit all 8 games ATS the payout would be pretty huge. Likely 5 figures on even a smallish bet.

The score was 21-7 and I had Dallas -10. It was an okay chunk of change. Dallas won. Spare me on the bullshit about betting against "our" team. Cash rules everything.

My favorite win was 3k on Carolina ML against Minny in 2009.

I've tried to talk Sports and Poker with you but you are scared to death to share any personal information for some reason, even a poker SN.

[Showtime]

you can't just like, show random win losses and go "THERE! I proved you wrong!!!" You didn't show anything at all...

I never once changed my argument. My first post on this matter was clear, let me quote it for you:

A

That's because maybe, just maybe, our offense has not been our primary issue for the entire season...

We lost a game where we had one of the best YPPs in the league, and we lost a game where we had a better YPP than our opposition.

You changed your argument from 2 months ago when you kept crying about how special team yards aren't included. Now you are trying to say ppg gets "clouded" by yards, implying it's a less accurate measurement because it includes yards, whereas 2 months ago you were worried yards per point didn't take into consideration yards and were arguing the exact opposite. Which it does. I have a pretty good memory.

And of course that's possible or else there would never be a need to play a football game. Anything is possible on any given Sunday. It matters how you play that day and who you play.

But you are wrong again: yard per point differential, or net yards per point correlates even better than point differential.

Points differential is a team stat. Naturally it's better than a single sided stat. Common sense or logic should tell you this too. If offensive yards per point is more accurate and meaningful than points per game alone(hint: that's because it freaking INCLUDES it: YPP= PPG/YPG), then yards per point differential is also going to be more accurate than points differential.

Net yards per point, or ypp differential, is also a team stat. This is the one you kept wrongly referring to when you thought scoring offense ypp, was the same thing as team ypp. Net ypp is team efficiency. Offensive ypp is offensive efficiency. Naturally a stat that measures your entire team is more accurate than one that measures just offensive yards per point or your scoring offense.

However the most interesting thing is that offensive yards per point alone, by itself, is almost as accurate as both of those. Looking at differential only marginally improves accuracy. Which is your first clue that offensive efficiency is far more important than defense when it comes to winning or losing seasons. Which is also what tells you our offense's efficiency has been our primary issue.

If turnovers, scoring 0 points, interceptions, penalties, incompletions in the red-zone wasn't enough to convince you all season long, yards per point should clear it up for you. That's what it's there for. When you can't see the forest from the trees.

[mav1234]

uhh, what? Two months ago I told you that YPP was not purely representative of a quarterback-lead offense...

as to YPP differential, how exactly are you defining it?

[Showtime]

No you were saying it's not accurate because special teams yards aren't added into scoring offense yards per point. And I told you it made no difference because they are accounted for by method of subtraction. Because that's the only way to keep track of field position for your actual offense.

[mav1234]

...I was saying it wasn't accurate as a tool of measuring an offense (as defined by the group led by the quarterback), because it included points from special teams and defense, but penalized teams for poor field position. My point then, as it still is now, is that YPP is a total team stat.

edit: again I am curious, how are you defining YPP differential?

[Showtime]

...I was saying it wasn't accurate as a tool of measuring an offense (as defined by the group led by the quarterback), because it included points from special teams and defense, but penalized teams for poor field position. My point then, as it still is now, is that YPP is a total team stat.

But you are wrong, and continue to show flawed common sense because in reality net ypp is a team stat while something that's applied to measure jsut the offense, can ONLY measure that part: your offense.

Where is your common sense?

If i wanna measure Steve Smith's yards, and I track just his yards, how can you tell me it's the team's yards? If I measure Steve's yards per point, I get Steve's yards per point, not the team's.

If I'm measuring offensive efficiency I get offensive efficiency.

If I measure team efficiency I get team efficiency.

If I measure scoring offense efficiency, I get scoring offense efficiency.

Common. fuging. Sense.

Most people track scoring offense. It's not a team stat any more than tracking Steve's yards being a team stat. It's your scoring offense. Which is almost always your actual offense. Defense doesn't typically score. Neither does special teams. No one cares to separate it because it would change little to nothing. We've had 2 defensive scores all season. 9 points total. They make up less than 3% of your scoring offense.

[mav1234]

did you just finally admit that ypp is a team stat?

edit: Ahh, "net" YPP. weird, because a "net" ypp is not correlated well at all with winning unless you are defining it in a way that is not "ypp minus defensive ypp" or something.

[frash.exe]

did you just finally admit that ypp is a team stat?

you actually read his posts mav?

i am dissappoint

[mav1234]

you actually read his posts mav?

i am dissappoint

you mean you don't love me anymore?

[frash.exe]

you mean you don't love me anymore?

i'm going to PM you my response to that

i can't write tender sentiments in public view