Week 12 updated statistics rankings

[teeray]

Actually I love Michael Jackson and if I was listening to something it would be this:

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[teeray]

My post got deleted but, football outsiders themselves say it's efficiency. Your own article and website says that.

That's the article you quoted, right?

And that last sentence of that paragraph that he moves over real quickly is so crucial to his entire argument that it's the only way his argument works. By using incorrect logic and math to explain yards per point(backwards). The correct way is in fact points/yards. People do it the other way for simplicity's sake, because it gives easy numbers to understand. But in reality it's a percentage. A ratio is a percentage. It's a decimal number: 0.xxx

And yes it makes a world of difference in his argument. It's the only reason he can make unsubstantiated claims.

PS: All they do is yards per point too. Broken down to the play and player. There is only one way to do football efficiency ratings when it's all said and done. They're just not telling you that.

That paragraph is explaining the theory of YPP not endorsing it. The entire article is about the flaws of using OYPP as and offensive efficiency stat and using DYPP as a defensive efficiency stat. Not whether they were useful stats. HE explains how field position is effected here:

The appearance of the Baltimore offense in the 2003 top five makes the field position problem fairly apparent. I've discussed this numerous times: field position is fluid, and often the offense has a better chance to score because the defense gives them a better opportunity. This is, in fact, the entire point of the Baltimore Ravens. As long as their defense can stop people, and their special teams can provide good returns and long punts and kickoffs, it doesn't matter that their offense doesn't gain that many yards at a time (except when running an unexpected flea flicker). Each time they get the ball, they'll be closer and closer to the goal line, until at some point even a mediocre set of downs will result in a score. The Ravens' average drive in 2003 started at their 35.5-yard line, the best in the league and a yard-and-a-half closer to scoring than the second place team (surprisingly, the San Francisco 49ers, whose average start came on the 34-yard line).

DVOA is a little more advanced than YPP although in theory it is kind of an advanced form of it. But it is weighted so intensely from play to play it is 10x more accurate than basic YPP. That is why our offensive DVOA ranking is 6th even though our OYPP ranking is 22nd. DVOA provides at least 10x the context that YPP does.

[teeray]

Waiting for your response Teeray;) Bakwak!

That may be your best name yet :lol: Well played sir

[Carl Spackler]

:rofl:

Please do not become a psychologist. Whatever you do. I am anything but what you describe, except obsessive. I just obsess over winning and anything I take interest in. Anything. But try musician, artist, mathematician, advertising, sales, marketing, auto, and I happen to work my own hours because I have my own business. My major was also psychology. On top of that I'm European, bi-lingual and lived half my life there

Both sides of my brain work very well I promise you

Musician - has an iTunes account

artist - drew a picture of Huddle members as Scientologists on MSPaint

methematician - masturbated to a stat website

advertising - asked his parents to advertise on his website

sales - got $25 from his parents

marketing - links to his website on the Huddle

auto - once owned his own car

works own hours - has no job

both sides of brain work - neither side of brain works

[Carl Spackler]

LoyalPanthersFan -once tried being a comedian. Now specializes in kids entertainment. Practices on the Huddle:jc:

:confused:

You're just jealous my YPP is better than yours.

[footballisasport]

What is very clear on this board is the fact that there are those who want to ignore the reality of how bad this team's defense is and believe that if the offense make less mistakes the defense's weakness won't be so obvious. YEAH RIGHT...If one is to apply the logic about turn-overs being a major factor to this team not winning, then shouldn't this team be much higher in the win column than 3-8?

To put things into perspective, Tom Brady is a well seasoned Vet and his TD ratio isn't that much off from Cam's total TD ratio and his turn-overs a just four less. Yet, the Patriots are 8-3 and the Panthers are 3-8.

If a game is won or lose by it's offense, then why every season the defensively stronger team make it to the Superbowl? As great as the Patriots offense were last year, the the Jets got to them at the right time and they were and they were quickly eliminated from the Play-offs. How many turn-overs did Tom have last season that cost their team a chance at th play-off, 4 as was recorded, all season.

If I'm not mistaken, last Superbowl had two of the strongest defensive teams playing against each other and in the end, it was the team who was able to hold off the offense while scoring, that walked away the winner.

Stats may tell a story but the truth is in the pudding.

[TheRealDeal]

You can't compare Total TDs to just passing TDs.

[pawsandclaws]

You can't compare Total TDs to just passing TDs.

You are absolutely.... wrong. Because a running QB that will not break like a China doll puts a LOT of pressure on the defense. 3rd and goal and you have to cover our WR's, RB, TE, and our QB. 6 points is 6 points no matter how the QB gets them,you do not get extra credit for throwing.

[TheRealDeal]

So you're saying if you are a QB that throws but your team also gives carries to your RBs that the defense doesn't have to still guard the WRs, RB, TE and QB?

It's an added threat, but when your RBs only combine for 5 TDs, they aren't that big of a threat.

When you are NO and your QB has 27 TDs and your RBs have 11...that's impressive this early. Brees has more touchdowns than our dual threat QB and double trouble combined (He has 1 rushing).

When you are talking TD/Turnover ratio, passing v Ints is all that matters.

[pawsandclaws]

Ok...I'll keep it simple. Brees throws a 14 yard TD pass. Cam runs it in from 14 yards out.

The score is 6 points for each. To NOT give him credit for an attribute that is a big part of his game is nonsense.

You brought up NO....do you honestly believe teams game plan to stop the mighty Drew from running it in? No-they will usually leave it up to the standard rushing lineman. And to say our RB's are not that big of a threat because they only have 5 rushing TD's is ludicrous. a

[ncmonzta]

So you're saying if you are a QB that throws but your team also gives carries to your RBs that the defense doesn't have to still guard the WRs, RB, TE and QB?

It's an added threat, but when your RBs only combine for 5 TDs, they aren't that big of a threat.

When you are NO and your QB has 27 TDs and your RBs have 11...that's impressive this early. Brees has more touchdowns than our dual threat QB and double trouble combined (He has 1 rushing).

When you are talking TD/Turnover ratio, passing v Ints is all that matters.

So because D-Will and J-Stew have five touchdowns they're not a threat anymore? You make a lot sense

[CarolinaPanthers2K11]

The turnovers stat is huge because it means fewer chances to score, and more short fields to go against a defense that isn't very good. Improve it to at least middle of the pack and we probably have 3 more wins.

Here's an idea... how about our defense makes 3 more tackles... (Peterson, Hester, Nelson), and our kicker makes 1 more kick (MN) and we probably have 4 more wins...

[panthers55]

No I think what TRD is saying the rushing TD's Cam Newton is getting is a direct result on DWill's and Stewart's numbers. He's not actually improving the overall amount of rushing TD's we get per game. The way we we run our offense, we're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If the Dwill and Stewart were still getting the same amount of points, and on TOP of that Cam also had his number of TD's you'd probably actually see the potential of this offense at its actual strength. Right now we're pissing a lot of scores away.

Totally incorrect. The fact that Newton can run adds to the threats we have and options. It isn't a take away from Williams or Stewart or a zero sum game.

For example when we use a 22 personnel, pistol formation with Williams and Stewart in the backfield, we have essentially 5 eligible receivers- Smitth out wide, Stewart and Williams out of the backfield, and Shockey or Olsen in the tight end spots. That gives up multiple looks and multiple options. For example we have used that to run the option toss where Newton starts running left and either runs off the edge or pitches it to the back based on whether the DE pinches in or holds the edge to the outside. If Newton wasn't such a run threat, that play would be stopped easily by just playing the RB and forgetting about Newton.

Secondly because newton is a threat to run the ball on passing downs and especially in the redzone, it makes other teams use a spy whose sole job is to follow Newton wherever he goes and make sure if he runs, they tackle him. That is usually the SS or one of the linebackers which means they can't be in space in pass protection. That allows us to bring backs and guys across the middle which is open because it would normally be the area covered by the spy.

Finally quarterbacks for the most part are surperfluous in the run game but in Newton's case improves the run game substantially because it gives them one more person to account for on every play.

Newton bring the same pressure on the defense that Vick has for years except Newton is actually a quarterback. Anyone who knows anything about football can easily understand such a basic concept.

[Jackofalltrades]

Seems simple, doesn't it?