Week 12 updated statistics rankings

[Smitharound]

I have worked with a number of folks like him over the years. He appears to be a very left brained individual who is very rigid in his thinking similar to what we would call a black and white thinker. Very concrete, can see the facts but lacks the ability to assimilate contrasting information, doesn't understand metaphors, sarcasm, abstract reasoning etc. Couple that with obsessive compulsive personality traits and you have someone who could be a good computer technician, accountant or worker bee. A bulldog with little insight. I would think not easy to live with though and certainly not someone to talk philosophy or esoteric matters.

:rofl:

Please do not become a psychologist. Whatever you do. I am anything but what you describe, except obsessive. I just obsess over winning and anything I take interest in. Anything. But try musician, artist, mathematician, advertising, sales, marketing, auto, and I happen to work my own hours because I have my own business. My major was also psychology. On top of that I'm European, bi-lingual and lived half my life there so I am certain I have a much broader viewpoint than you do of the world. You're probably still under the impression you live in a free country. I'm just a dick when it comes to obnoxious ignorant know-it-littles, that pretend to know a lot and start making personal attacks and comments that are so far off base it's just plain hilarious. This is like high school. You use straw man arguments every time I address one of your points and pretend I don't understand you when in fact I have no issues understanding anything you bring up.

Both sides of my brain work very well I promise you and I have a much better ability than you do to see things from BOTH sides as well as far more flexibility by nature. I argue efficiency all day. You think I would ever be satisfied with busywork? Don't give up your day job. Ok?

[Smitharound]

Look at his post to me, he is still calling YPP offensive efficiency instead of team scoring efficiency. He just refuses to concede a point that his quoted author so eloquently pointed out is not offensive efficiency as you noted. I think the problem here is that he doesn't want to admit the reality because it would invalidate all the alts and 1000s of posts he has made for weeks. He is too invested in being right to admit what we all know which is that his thinking is flawed and has been since the start. He can't admit it now so his continued attempts just appear as constant troliing.

First of all it's not my quoted author. It's Teeray's author from his website. Teeray's own website refers to it also as offensive efficiency. You talk about me being unable to assimilate and you can't even read a simple article all the way through. He clearly mentions both offensive and defensive efficiency in the article and addresses them both.

And Teeray you continue to have poor reading comprehension. I never said I wasn't sure it wasn't yards per points, I said he never makes it clear whether he's talking about total offense yards per point, actual offense yards per point, or scoring offense yards per point.

As I have already told you, you can measure it a number of different ways. And I am not discrediting him. He's discrediting his own stats on ESPN. I am discrediting his un-cunning attempt to compare un-adjusted yards per point to DVOA rating adjusted against the average teams. This is a no brainer. The funny part about the article if you look at the numbers is that even un-adjusted yards per point is just as good as VOA.

Now look at schedule adjusted yards per point. But we can't get that far just yet. "We're" still trying to accept the fact yards per point is offensive efficiency. You can't get there if you can't even figure out how it works in the first place.

Here's the summary of his article btw, it's at the bottom of the article you posted:

Same article you quoted:

SUMMARY

* While yards per point is a useful statistic, and sometimes a better measure of efficiency than total yards, it is not the mythical "one number that tells you all you need to know." It is not as accurate as our ratings at Football Outsiders. But it is more accurate than the NFL's standard rankings of team offense and team defense by raw yardage.

* Yards per point often gives a team's offense credit for the quality of the defense, because the defense delivers short field position that leads to more points on less offensive yardage gained. [he contradicts himself. He says it doesn't take into consideration field position then at the end says it does. I've already explained this to everybody]

* Yards per point also overlooks a team that consistently turns the ball over less than its opponents, or has great special teams.[he's wrong...when an offense turns over the ball..the turnovers go on defensive ypp....BUT in addition...the wasted offensive yards count against you...this is actually how it accounts for turnovers on the offensive side..by the extra yards that didn't lead to scoring(which is why I ask if he's talking about scoring offense ypp.)

* Net yards per point is a better measuring stick than offensive or defensive yards per point taken separately, because it helps solve the field position problem.[no poo sherlock..but you don't need to do this step to take field position into consideration]

* Yards per point -- particularly defensive yards per point -- is not a good indicator of how well a team will play next year.[thanks i know. that goes for just about any statistic]

[panthers55]

:rofl:

Please do not become a psychologist. Whatever you do. I am anything but what you describe, except obsessive. I just obsess over winning and anything I take interest in. Anything. But try musician, artist, mathematician, advertising, sales, marketing, auto, and I happen to work my own hours because I have my own business. My major was also psychology. On top of that I'm European, bi-lingual and lived half my life there so I am certain I have a much broader viewpoint than you do of the world. You're probably still under the impression you live in a free country. I'm just a dick when it comes to obnoxious ignoran know-it-littles, that pretend to know a lot and start making personal attacks and comments that are so far off base it's just plain hilarious. You use straw man arguments every time I address one of your points and pretend I don't understand you when in fact I have no issues understanding anything you bring up.

Both sides of my brain work very well I promise you and I have a much better ability than you do to see things from BOTH sides as well as far more flexibility by nature. I argue efficiency all day. You think I would ever be satisfied with busywork? Don't give up your day job. Ok?

Did you really say both sides of your brain work very well. Seriously?? Hard to believe you are so concrete. What you call a personal attack I call an accurate description of your behavior while trolling on this site. I don't know you or really care and you can say anything you want. I am just pointing out the type of thinking and behavior you exhibit here. And honestly you really want anyone to believe that a world traveler with his own business with mutiple interests would obsessively create mutiple alts everyday after getting banned sometimes 5 times a day and endlessly argue obsessively the same minute points day after day for weeks. Do you really beleive that this is an example of being well adjusted and that there isn't a problem?? Seriously????

[panthers55]

First of all it's not my quoted author. It's Teeray's author from his website. Teeray's own website refers to it also as offensive efficiency. You talk about me being unable to assimilate and you can't even read a simple article all the way through. He clearly mentions both offensive and defensive efficiency in the article and addresses them both.

And Teeray you continue to have poor reading comprehension. I never said I wasn't sure it wasn't yards per points, I said he never makes it clear whether he's talking about total offense yards per point, actual offense yards per point, or scoring offense yards per point.

As I have already told you, you can measure it a number of different ways. And I am not discrediting him. He's discrediting his own stats on ESPN. I am discrediting his un-cunning attempt to compare un-adjusted yards per point to DVOA rating adjusted against the average teams. This is a no brainer. The funny part about the article if you look at the numbers is that even un-adjusted yards per point is just as good as VOA.

Now look at schedule adjusted yards per point. But we can't get that far just yet. "We're" still trying to accept the fact yards per point is offensive efficiency. You can't get there if you can't even figure out how it works in the first place.

Here's the summary of his article btw, it's at the bottom of the article you posted:

Same article you quoted:

So how many alts have you created today. And exactly who are you trying to convince here. You don't think this is an issue??

[Smitharound]

Did you really say both sides of your brain work very well. Seriously?? Hard to believe you are so concrete. What you call a personal attack I call an accurate description of your behavior while trolling on this site. I don't know you or really care and you can say anything you want. I am just pointing out the type of thinking and behavior you exhibit here. And honestly you really want anyone to believe that a world traveler with his own business with mutiple interests would obsessively create mutiple alts everyday after getting banned sometimes 5 times a day and endlessly argue obsessively the same minute points day after day for weeks. Do you really beleive that this is an example of being well adjusted and that there isn't a problem?? Seriously????

Yes, unfortunately your definition of trolling and mine are different. A person that makes arguments, backed up by logic or facts is not a troll. I am talking football stats, facts, and I do my research. I show proof and I give explanations to the best of my ability and in such a way you may understand them. Only on here would that be considered trolling. Most of you are arguing based on opinion and common gang mentality.

Someone who attacks someone on a personal level and always feels the need to take it to a personal level IS A TROLL. You don't attack my points. You ALSO feel the need to attack me. I don't like that so I'll attack you right back. Sorry you have a problem with that.

That's what a troll is. That's also something some of the mods here haven't figured out. One of the only people on here that don't do that is mav. He argues the ARGUMENT. The POINT addressed. You attempt to discredit good points by simply banding together and trying to discredit a poster when you fail at discrediting the point brought up.

[chef17]

Uhm...

If you have 1000 yards or 600 yards like you say and only scored 20 points that means what you wasted a lot of freaking drives and possessions. You had at least 12-13 possessions right to get that many yards?

Well in between each one of those drives the other team's offense ALSO got the ball. That doesn't mean they're going to waste and not score on all of their possessions you gave them. Understand? They don't have to be as incompetent as your offense just because yours is. That's why teams with lots of yards and inefficient offenses lose. To get that many yards you had to have multiple possession. If the other team is more efficient on theirs, they will score more points.

They do better than 20 points per however many posessions it took you to get 1000 yards. So yes, yards DO matter. Points matter and yards matter. That's why yards per point is better than both. Cause it IS both in one. It's not a vacuum stat! And yes, you are at the level of a 5th grader. Sorry.;)

Now Teeray I believe you can answer this since we were among the first to argue with him. Wasn't his original argument that yards aren't important only points are and that our offense was bad because we were top ten in yards but not points?

[Smitharound]

Now Teeray I believe you can answer this since we were among the first to argue with him. Wasn't his original argument that yards aren't important only points are and that our offense was bad because we were top ten in yards but not points?

Dude you don;'t have to ask Teeray. I have no problem admitting or re-clarifying myself.

That is EXACTLY what I said. But I also said the following.

1.Yards alone are meaningless.

2. Points are FAR more important than yards.

3 yards per point are better than both.

4. yards per points includes BOTH.

None of those arguments contradict each other. That is exactly what I have said and stuck by it. Just cause you take one thing out of context, doesn't mean I am changing my tune. What you are doing is called a strawman argument. More than one thought and more than one string of logic tied together. I think I have also said this about a million times.

Same thing as panterss55 above...he actually changes and doesn't address the points after I debate them.

[Smitharound]

Did you really say both sides of your brain work very well. Seriously?? Hard to believe you are so concrete. What you call a personal attack I call an accurate description of your behavior while trolling on this site. I don't know you or really care and you can say anything you want. I am just pointing out the type of thinking and behavior you exhibit here. And honestly you really want anyone to believe that a world traveler with his own business with mutiple interests would obsessively create mutiple alts everyday after getting banned sometimes 5 times a day and endlessly argue obsessively the same minute points day after day for weeks. Do you really beleive that this is an example of being well adjusted and that there isn't a problem?? Seriously????

I don't really care what you think and I'm not here to impress you just pointing out you have no idea what you are talking about, you don't know me, not even close to being able to judge me, and you feel the need to take football discussions to a personal level that have NOTHING to do with my personal life. It's really none of your business in the end, is it?

Do you ever stop to realize that you are here everyday arguing the same minute point with me? Do you realize that also makes you a hypocrite and guilty of the same crime?

Probably not. That's that whole ignorance part I keep mentioning. You aren't aware of your own actions. Just others. When you sit there and you talk about me, and you respond and then you bitch all day long you and a lot of others are in fact a big part of why any of these discussions turn to poo.

[chef17]

Dude you don;'t have to ask Teeray. I have no problem admitting or re-clarifying myself.

That is EXACTLY what I said. But I also said the following.

1.Yards alone are meaningless.

2. Points are FAR more important than yards.

3 yards per point are better than both.

4. yards per points includes BOTH.

None of those arguments contradict each other. That is exactly what I have said and stuck by it. Just cause you take one thing out of context, doesn't mean I am changing my tune. What you are doing is called a strawman argument. More than one thought and more than one string of logic tied together. I think I have also said this about a million times.

Same thing as panterss55 above...he actually changes and doesn't address the points after I debate them.

First saying only points are important then saying points and yards are important is a direct contradiction

[Smitharound]

First saying only points are important then saying points and yards are important is a direct contradiction

And that is an example of a strawman argument and twisting words. I never actually said any of those things. I said exactly what I posted in my previous post. I never said ONLY points are important. That's your spin on things. You putting words in my mouth and mis-representing what I actually said.

Clearly I have been arguing about yards per point. Efficiency. They are both. The two most important measurements combined, working together, not in a vacuum will give you a better measurement than either one separate.

Common freaking sense.

[panthers55]

Yes, unfortunately your definition of trolling and mine are different. A person that makes arguments, backed up by logic or facts is not a troll. I am talking football stats, facts, and I do my research. I show proof and I give explanations to the best of my ability and in such a way you may understand them. Only on here would that be considered trolling. Most of you are arguing based on opinion and common gang mentality.

Someone who attacks someone on a personal level and always feels the need to take it to a personal level IS A TROLL. You don't attack my points. You ALSO feel the need to attack me. I don't like that so I'll attack you right back. Sorry you have a problem with that.

That's what a troll is. That's also something some of the mods here haven't figured out. One of the only people on here that don't do that is mav. He argues the ARGUMENT. The POINT addressed. You attempt to discredit good points by simply banding together and trying to discredit a poster when you fail at discrediting the point brought up.

Your right our definitions are very different. I define a troll as someone who obsessively comes here under mutiple alts every day arguing minute useless points for days and weeks in some convoluted attempt to prove he is superior to everyone on this site. When he gets called a troll and get banned repeatedly he fails to take the hint and leave but continues to exhibit the same behavior over and over despite whatever anyone does to stop it.

Now who am I describing?? Me or you?? Lets take a poll and see who people think is a troll, you or me?? How would that work out?? That's right, I forgot, since you are smarter and superior to everyone here, only your opinion counts. I wonder if perhaps we should change that description to a narcisistic personality disorder with obsessive features. I am sure you know what that is from one of your obsessive threads weeks ago.

That's right, everyone is wrong here including the mods and you are right. Aren't we the entitled one....

[panthers55]

I don't really care what you think and I'm not here to impress you just pointing out you have no idea what you are talking about, you don't know me, not even close to being able to judge me, and you feel the need to take football discussions to a personal level that have NOTHING to do with my personal life. It's really none of your business in the end, is it?

Do you ever stop to realize that you are here everyday arguing the same minute point with me? Do you realize that also makes you a hypocrite and guilty of the same crime?

Probably not. That's that whole ignorance part I keep mentioning. You aren't aware of your own actions. Just others. When you sit there and you talk about me, and you respond and then you bitch all day long you and a lot of others are in fact a big part of why any of these discussions turn to poo.

Wrong again like usual. I ignore your minute points and bunny trails hence the reason you say I don't argue your points. I talk in global terms about the concepts and issue while you get lost in the minutia. I am not the one getting banned and coming back here obsessively.

Why come back obsessively day after day when you are banned repeatedly. What do you get out of it. I think most of us would like to know........

I don't care about YPP at all. I just like to point out the absurdity of your behavior and the obvious problems in your reasoning.

The difference is that I will move on because I really don't care if I am right or wrong or whether you concede a point or not. You are the one who will get banned again today and come back tomorrow spouting the same old thing.

Again why do it? why do you care about coming back here and arguing with people who clearly don't want you here?? Do you think you are winning or is it some kind of attempt to show people that they can't ban you and you are smarter than they are?? Frankly I have been on this site for over 5 years and you are the only one outside of TRD who keeps up the alts.

[chef17]

Now Teeray I believe you can answer this since we were among the first to argue with him. Wasn't his original argument that yards aren't important only points are and that our offense was bad because we were top ten in yards but not points?

Dude you don;'t have to ask Teeray. I have no problem admitting or re-clarifying myself.

That is EXACTLY what I said. But I also said the following.

1.Yards alone are meaningless.

2. Points are FAR more important than yards.

3 yards per point are better than both.

4. yards per points includes BOTH.

None of those arguments contradict each other. That is exactly what I have said and stuck by it. Just cause you take one thing out of context, doesn't mean I am changing my tune. What you are doing is called a strawman argument. More than one thought and more than one string of logic tied together. I think I have also said this about a million times.

Same thing as panterss55 above...he actually changes and doesn't address the points after I debate them.

1. So you respond to my post with that's exactly what you said then say you never actually said that? :lol:

2. It isn't a strawman. I wasn't exactly sure if your original argument was only points matter, hence me asking. You first saying you said that then saying you didn't is the problem.

[Smitharound]

Wrong again like usual. I ignore your minute points and bunny trails hence the reason you say I don't argue your points. I talk in global terms about the concepts and issue while you get lost in the minutia. I am not the one getting banned and coming back here obsessively.

Why come back obsessively day after day when you are banned repeatedly. What do you get out of it. I think most of us would like to know........

I don't care about YPP at all. I just like to point out the absurdity of your behavior and the obvious problems in your reasoning.

The difference is that I will move on because I really don't care if I am right or wrong or whether you concede a point or not. You are the one who will get banned again today and come back tomorrow spouting the same old thing.

Again why do it? why do you care about coming back here and arguing with people who clearly don't want you here?? Do you think you are winning or is it some kind of attempt to show people that they can't ban you and you are smarter than they are?? Frankly I have been on this site for over 5 years and you are the only one outside of TRD who keeps up the alts.

So you write books arguing with me because you don't care? And you are under the wrong assumption that I can't be banned. I believe you are fooling yourself there and I also don't believe you speak for everybody. Once again if Zod wanted me banned he would have. Last time Zod responded to me he didn't say anything along the lines of what you are saying. I also do not believe you speak for everybody.

If you come to my forum I promise you I can ban you definitively in a second and you won't be coming back more than once or twice if I really want to. Zod can do the same thing if he so chooses.