Cam's day

[ed bell]

To indicate that the score was by a defensive player.

When a defense gets a safety they are still playing defense. They don't have the ball,unlike a pick 6. The 2 points however would still go towards your scoring offense.

Good God, everyone understands that scoring is offense.....everyone understands that a pick-6 adds to the score and is scoring offense...everyone understands that a safety is 2 points credited to the scoring offense, a blocked kick returned for points is scoring offense and everyone understands that a punt/kick return for a touchdown is scoring offense.

Now lets examine those when talking about offense....everyone understands that a pick-6 scores points, but doesn't add to the total offensive yardage..everyone understands that a safety adds 2 points, but doesn't add to the total offensive yardage. Blocked kick return yards don't add to the offense's total the same as total return yards don't add to it either. The only players that can add to the yardage total for the offense are members of the offensive unit.....YOU KNOW THIS.....yet you act as though it doesn't change YPP. That's what everyone who has bothered to contribute has tried to point out....clearly...the reason our YPP doesn't "jive" with our YPG is a team failure...

[mav1234]

the point this all comes down to is that the points gained via special teams and defense are pretty much NEVER a reflection of how the offensive unit run by the quarterback is doing... and in fact, the deficiencies in areas not run by the quarterback an have a direct and large impact on the scoring efficiency of a team.

Your above completely and totally neglects number of possessions per game and special teams yardage influencing field position. The reason people call it scoring efficiency instead of just plain offense efficiency is because YPP is ridiculously heavily influenced by field position and number of drives per game.

[ItsPantone278]

Trolls gonna troll

[ItsPantone278]

Here's an easier way to figure your total offense efficiency number.

Green bay has 0.5 non-offensive touchdowns. They score 34.7 - 3 = 31.7 ppg

401.3 yards per game/ 31.7 = 12.6. They are currently at 11.6. So their actual offense is worse by 1 point. This goes for everybody.

Us too. We have 0.1 non-offensive touchdowns. So we would be at 22.9 - 0.6 = 22.3

Carolina: 398.5/ 22.3 = 17.9. We are at 17.4 right now.

So our total offense's efficiency is worse too. But the difference is somewhere between 0.0. and 1.0. Nobody cares to do this because it changes nothing. It might change the median. That's about it.

There's your total offense ypp. 17.9 instead of 17.4. So slightly worse as expected. Because any defensive score helps.

It's all included because you can still figure it out easily and the difference over the course of a couple of games or season is minimal. So they just include them all in your scoring offense ypp: 17.4. You don't need 2 numbers, and you can still figure out the same thing just by looking at it.

Your argument is stupid. You are repeating stupid arguments made by people who never understood yards per point in the first place and are asking me, to call it something different than what it is because you have little experience with it. You repeat hearsay and mantra. Stop listening to people who don't understand football terms or stats.

Take his advice and ignore him and whatever dumb handle he can come up with.

[chef17]

Because it doesn't include non-offensive points?

I think your issue is you don't understand special teams are dedicated offensive and defensive teams and you don't grasp the concept of a SCORING offense.

And when a defensive player catches an interception, he's no longer considered playing defense. He's playing offense.

There's no such thing as non-offensive points. If a goal keeper in soccer scores a goal does that not count as part of your offense just because his main position is goal keeper?

To indicate that the score was by a defensive player.

When a defense gets a safety they are still playing defense. They don't have the ball,unlike a pick 6. The 2 points however would still go towards your scoring offense.

If there is no such thing as non offensive points how can a player get their team 2 points without playing offense?

[ed bell]

Obviously not everybody understands that Ed. See my post above.

Again what you are talking about in fact is team YPP. What most people track is scoring offense ypp.

You don't add the yards to get your offense's efficiency, you subtract the points. 6 in our case. 6 points. for the season.

It changes our number from 17.9 to 17.4. Any more questions?

The largest statistical difference in the league is Green Bay, they go from 34.7 to 31.6 ppg. Was that your concern? That GB is getting some kind of ungodly help from their defense? That Green Bay's offense is only scoring at 12.7 ypp instead of 11.6? LOL. They are still efficient as fug. So they chance by 1 and we change by 0.5. Cleveland, the most inefficient team in the league, doesn't change at all. They would still be exactly the same.

So what is the problem?

Changing the point by using GB? Nice try....but you're getting closer....

[teeray]

the point this all comes down to is that the points gained via special teams and defense are pretty much NEVER a reflection of how the offensive unit run by the quarterback is doing... and in fact, the deficiencies in areas not run by the quarterback an have a direct and large impact on the scoring efficiency of a team.

Your above completely and totally neglects number of possessions per game and special teams yardage influencing field position. The reason people call it scoring efficiency instead of just plain offense efficiency is because YPP is ridiculously heavily influenced by field position and number of drives per game.

YPP is heavily influenced by everything. Field position, possessions, special teams, defense. It isn't an accurate portrayal of your offense's performance.

My biggest problem is it rewards bad offenses too much and it is easily inflated by defense and special teams. It just isn't accurate.

[mav1234]

the point is that whether ypp is "scoring offense efficiency" or "scoring efficiency", it still includes input from units other than the offense-run-by-the-qb. that's why so many of us thought (and think) you are incorrect in deciding our offense is below average based solely on that statistic.

missed and blocked fgs, field position, number of possessions, all of these have tremendous influence on ypp.

[ed bell]

total offense / total points scored by the offense = total offense offense ypp

That is what it is. You are misinformed. The one everybody keeps track off is the middle one which is almost always identical to your actual total offense ypp. As you can plainly see.

I didn't add or subtract anything....the total yards/points scored = YPP. All I said was the contributions of ST's and Defense greatly influence this number. We haven't benefited to the extent other teams have. That is a team issue....not a problem exclusive to the offense.

[Floppin]

No they are always part of your ACTUAL offense.

All of them are also part of your SCORING offense. Anyone that scores is part of your scoring offense for that particular game.

What you mean to say is that they are not part of your QB's quarterback unit. Yes that is true. But that has nothing to do with yards per point calculations and how it works as I have just showed you.

The largest difference between your scoring offense and total offense ypp number is GB's at 9%. Cleveland is 0. Ours is 3%.

You wanna poo your pants over 3% go for it. And that's 3% worse. GB would be 9% less efficient, and ours would be 3% less efficient. Still won't make Carolina's offense efficient no matter which yards per point number you look at.

You can even figure out TEAM YPP and it won't make a damn difference. Every team's ranking would be exactly the same as their scoring offense YPP. The numbers themselves would be different. The scale would be different. Not what it indicates.

You are arguing something retarded. You have been for awhile now.

The point that you quoted was just one of many that make YPP not an accurate portrayal of what you like to call "your quarterback's unit"

[Floppin]

By even calling it a "quarterback unit" you are effectively admitting that this isn't what this stat measures, it has a lot more included into it. So quit trying to use it as a judgement of our "quarterback unit"

[teeray]

No they are always part of your ACTUAL offense.

All of them are also part of your SCORING offense. Anyone that scores is part of your scoring offense for that particular game.

What you mean to say is that they are not part of your QB's offensive unit. Yes that is true. But that has nothing to do with yards per point calculations and how it works as I have just showed you.

The largest difference between your scoring offense and total offense ypp number is GB's at 9%. Cleveland is 0. Ours is 3%.

You wanna poo your pants over 3% go for it. And that's 3% worse. GB would be 9% less efficient, and ours would be 3% less efficient. Still won't make Carolina's offense efficient no matter which yards per point number you look at.

You can even figure out TEAM YPP and it won't make a damn difference. Every team's ranking would be exactly the same as their scoring offense YPP. The numbers themselves would be different. The scale would be different. Not what it indicates.

You are arguing something retarded. You have been for awhile now.

You do know that you posting the same thing over and over again and calling everyone else stupid doesn't make you anymore correct than the first time you posted it.

It isn't just non-offensive TDs. It is a ton of different things that influence YPP that cause it to not be accurate or informative of anything except generalizations.

It is just a happy coincidence that most of the teams that are in the top ten of YPP are also in the top ten in offensive starting field position. They all have a minimum of 3 non-offensive TDs, and the vast majority of their defenses are top 10 in yards allowed per drive.

All just a big coincidence. :rolleyes:

[ed bell]

What you mean to say is that they are not part of your QB's offensive unit. Yes that is true. But that has nothing to do with yards per point calculations and how it works as I have just showed you.

There is offense, there is defense, there is special teams.....the offense can add yards per game and points......the defense can add points and subtract yards required to gain in order to score....ST's can add points and can subtract yards required to gain in order to score....YOU KNOW THIS...YPP is a team statistic...YPP is NOT a complete reflection of the efficiency of your offensive unit.

Also, your Head Coach does not use his will to improve it......the team ends up with it as a result of their on-field performance...

[ed bell]

How many of our games have we won when we were the more efficient total offense? 3

How many have we lost when we were not the most efficient total offense? 7

How many have we lost when we were the more efficient total offense? 1

This is a small sample indicative of the wall of text you have to wade through to reach an absolutely meaningless point. Let me make a point with less words that means more...

How about this?

How many of our games have we won when we scored more points than the other team? 3

How many have we lost when we scored less than the other team? 8

How many have we lost when we scored more than the other team? 0

My method of evaluation works better because it has to do with winning.