Cam hasn't taken a step back

[teeray]

I don't really care what you say. You have one of the most offensive/Cam Newton biased views on here. You have no idea what constitutes a good offensive performance.

-An offense that doesn't drive down the length of the field until the 4th quarter after they stumbled all game long is not a good offensive performance.

-Being in the red-zone 3 times in the first half, and only coming up with 10 points is not good. By anyone's measure. You might as well kick 3 FG's from the 35 yard line. You get 9 points when you do that. 10 points off of 3 trips to the red-zone is a failure in one half. 10 points off of 4 is even worse when you count the third quarter interception.

-Getting 2 three and outs, and putting your defense in a position to defend from our own red-zone, followed by an interception in the opponent's red-zone in the third quarter is not a good offensive performance. It's part of what makes for a blown lead.

-throwing 3 interceptions in the last 18 minutes of the game when the game is tied or down by one score is NOT a good offensive performance.

-when your quarterback has a rating of 50.0 and 4 interceptions, and the offense has 3 three and outs, that never makes for a good offensive performance. It's one of the worst.

Our defense did have one of its best performances in the first half. Our offense didn't play good the entire game.

I'm just using your logic :( Is YPP not an accurate representation for offensive efficiency anymore?? :lol:

Here. Let me explain.

According to PFFL/Truedat offensive YPP is considered to him to be offensive efficiency. He claims that everything is accounted for including turnover, 3 and outs, red zone efficiency, and even special teams TDs. He ash referred to it as "the best and only model for offensive efficiency"

Well yesterday our offense posted a YPP of 11.7 (409 total yards and 35 total points). That would put us at #2 in the entire NFL!! Heck that would put us, in terms of "offensive efficiency", dangerously close to GB who is at 11.5.

So clearly PFFL/truedat knows that we had one of the best offenses in the NFL yesterday. Extremely efficient.

Unless..... no it couldn't be.... could it be that YPP isn't actually a representation of what is actually going on on the field and is a scoring efficiency measure used for handicapping games and not an accurate offensive efficiency model.

Couldn't be that. That would blow up the bullpoo argument and all those lengthy algorithms PFFL/Truedat produced the last two weeks. God forbid something like yesterday prove his entire theory on YPP would be completely undermined. If not then he would have to agree that our offense was top 2 in the league yesterday.

[csx]

Not that this comment fits here, but....

I realize this offense is about vertical, down field, attacking....blah blah blah...but that is no reason not to develop an intermediate and short passing game. It seams like it's a 30 yard pass or nothing.

[TrueDat]

I'm just using your logic :( Is YPP not an accurate representation for offensive efficiency anymore?? :lol:

Of course it is. And who was the more efficient offense?

Lions: 495/49 =10.1

Panthers 409/35= 11.7

Lower is better.

You do this every time. You laugh at what I say, before checking facts and end up making yourself look bad.

[teeray]

Of course it is. And who was the more efficient offense?

So you would agree that we had such an efficient enough offense yesterday that we would be top 2 in the league in YPP but our defense played so bad we couldn't win??

Selective use of YPP is selective

Yes I look totally stupid when using your logic, I agree :rofl:

[TrueDat]

So you would agree that we had such an efficient enough offense yesterday that we would be top 2 in the league in YPP but our defense played so bad we couldn't win??

Selective use of YPP is selective

Yes I look totally stupid using you logic, I agree :rofl:

You are retarded. Our offense was not efficient yesterday because they were efficient. Our scoring offense was efficient yesterday. Our total offense was. And they were efficient because of our defense and special teams.

PS: I keep saying it Teeray you need to stay away from stats. Stay away from YPP too. Just another one you don't understand.

[CRA]

Of course it is. And who was the more efficient offense?

Lions: 495/49 =10.1

Panthers 409/35= 11.7

Lower is better.

You do this every time. You laugh at what I say, before checking facts and end up making yourself look bad.

well, any team looks efficient playing the Panther D. The Panther D would get abused by college teams.

problem is the D. keep on spinning reality to make it something else though...

Here is what you do...let's say the Panther D allows an opponet to score EVERY time they touch the ball. They put up 70 points....you would come on here and bitch and moan about how Cam should of done SO MUCH more and go on and on about how he is the biggest problem. Makes you sound a like monkey in a lab scientist are doing experiments on......

[teeray]

You are retarded.

I'm just trying to get my head around this YPP thing you have been beating to death the last two weeks.

You said it is offensive efficiency. I disagreed. Are you changing your mind?? Because our YPP yesterday ranks near the top of the league. GB leads the NFL at 11.5 we had a YPP of 11.7 yesterday.

[teeray]

You are retarded. Our offense was not efficient yesterday because they were efficient. Our scoring offense was efficient yesterday. Our total offense was. And they were efficient because of our defense and special teams.

PS: I keep saying it Teeray you need to stay away from stats. Stay away from YPP too. Just another one you don't understand.

So you are saying that YPP isn't representative of offensive efficiency because there are other variables that can manipulate it??

Oh the irony of you calling it basically "scoring efficiency" now!!11!!1

[TrueDat]

So you are saying that YPP isn't representative of offensive efficiency because there are other variables that can manipulate it??

Oh the irony of you calling it "scoring efficiency" now!!11!!1

No dude. You still don't wrap your head around it:

It is 100% representative of your total scoring offense.

It is 100% representative of your actual offense's inefficiency.

Our total offense was very efficient. Our actual offense was very inefficient. Do the math for our offense's ypp and figure it out at a 0 turnover margin.

[carolinarolls]

YPP means nothing when there are 4 picks in a shootout. I am placing no blame on Cam for the picks mind you, but in a YPP calculation where a turnover counts the same as a 0 yard run, you are fooling yourself if you think it matters.

And in a shootout, where possessions are at a premium, YPP means even less.

Does the 101 yard runback count in your YPP calc?

[teeray]

No dude. You still don't wrap your head around it:

It is 100% representative of your total scoring offense.

It is 100% representative of your actual offense's inefficiency.

Our total offense was very efficient. Our actual offense was very inefficient. Do the math for our offense's ypp and figure it out.

I already did. Our offense's YPP was 11.7. GB leads the league with 11.5.

YPP doesn't take away ST and defensive TDs. That isn't how it works.

Besides I thought you said ST touchdowns were accounted for. Remember the value of 14.2. Has that changed too now??

[teeray]

YPP means nothing when there are 4 picks in a shootout. I am placing no blame on Cam for the picks mind you, but in a YPP calculation where a turnover counts the same as a 0 yard run, you are fooling yourself if you think it matters.

And in a shootout, where possessions are at a premium, YPP means even less.

Does the 101 yard runback count in your YPP calc?

I agree. And a 101 yard TD runback is calculated in the total points. The 101 yardage isn't counted.

And yes YPP is meaningless for evaluating offenses.

[footballisasport]

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011102311/2011/REG7/colts@saints#tab=analyze&recap=fullstory&menu=highlights

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011112006/2011/REG11/panthers@lions#menu=highlights&tab=analyze

P55, my problem is the lack of balance. I love that we're aggressive and an attacking offense, but attacking doesn't always mean we have to pass either.

We were up 17 on them at one point yesterday, and being that our defense got away with 3 turnovers somehow to start the game, we should've worked the clock from the 1st quarter on and took our shots in between.

I looked at the Saints stats from their 62-burger they put on the Colts because they are an attacking/vertical style offense as well - but what makes them so good is their balance...

They had a total of 36 first downs that game, 16 by rushing, 19 by passing. Balance.

They had 38 rushes to Brees' 35 passes, of which he completed 31 of them. Balance.

They had 38 mins in TOP, also suggests balance and a good rhythm to the playcalling.

We had the benefit of 3 TOs and a KO return early in the game, had a 17 point lead and this is what we looked like:

We had 24 first downs, 7 by rushing, 12 by passing.

26 total rushes, including Cam's runs and sacks to Cam's 38 passes. And as has been mentioned all over the forum since yesterday, DLo was running great and averaging 7+ YPC. 38 passes, and again, we were up by 17 at one point.

And we had 26 minutes of TOP.

I'm not saying we should've walked all over Detroit's defense like they were the Colts, but what I am saying is with a 17 point lead, using a well balanced offense, we could've scored more than what we did yesterday and limited our defense chances to screw it up.

There was no excuse for Cam having to throw 38 times yesterday, which translates into the lack of TOP, which then puts our defense on the field more and they can't get themselves off of it until the other team scores.

OFFENSE ALONE DO NOT WIN FOOTBALL GAMES...STOP WITH THE CAM SHOULD HAVE...THE DEFENSE NEED TO STOP GIVING THE FUGGING GAME AWAY EVERY FUGGING WEEK...FACE THE FACT.

I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT STATS. REALITY IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME EVERY SUNDAY. OFFENSE SCORES...DEFENSE GIVE BACK...OFFENSE SCORES BIG DEFENSE GIVES BACK...OFFENSE MESSES UP DEFENSE ALLOW OPPOSING TEAM TO SCORE...OFFENSE TRY TO GET SOMETHING HAPPENING EVEN WITH A FG...DEFENSE AND SPECIAL TEAM ACT LIKE THEY ARE PLAYING FOR THE OTHER TEAM.

Some of u folks remind me of that parent who looks to everyone else to solve their kid's issues instead to dealing it the damn kid. PANTHERS NEED TO FIX THEIR FUGGING DENFENSE. IF OTHER TEAMS CAN THEN WHY CAN'T THEY?

[Snake]

I don't really think Cam has "regressed".

However, his accuracy on throws the past few weeks HAS been much worse than it was earlier in the season. He was throwing high and wide again....missing open WR's.

This is a normal progression in the development of a young QB. But, he has NOT played as well the last few weeks.

And YES....our defense is God Awful. There might be 3-4 guys on that defense that I actually want starting next year. The rest....not so much.

It is pretty sad when Godfrey is your best LB.