Cam hasn't taken a step back

[TrueDat]

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011102311/2011/REG7/colts@saints#tab=analyze&recap=fullstory&menu=highlights

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011112006/2011/REG11/panthers@lions#menu=highlights&tab=analyze

P55, my problem is the lack of balance. I love that we're aggressive and an attacking offense, but attacking doesn't always mean we have to pass either.

We were up 17 on them at one point yesterday, and being that our defense got away with 3 turnovers somehow to start the game, we should've worked the clock from the 1st quarter on and took our shots in between.

I looked at the Saints stats from their 62-burger they put on the Colts because they are an attacking/vertical style offense as well - but what makes them so good is their balance...

They had a total of 36 first downs that game, 16 by rushing, 19 by passing. Balance.

They had 38 rushes to Brees' 35 passes, of which he completed 31 of them. Balance.

They had 38 mins in TOP, also suggests balance and a good rhythm to the playcalling.

We had the benefit of 3 TOs and a KO return early in the game, had a 17 point lead and this is what we looked like:

We had 24 first downs, 7 by rushing, 12 by passing.

26 total rushes, including Cam's runs and sacks to Cam's 38 passes. And as has been mentioned all over the forum since yesterday, DLo was running great and averaging 7+ YPC. 38 passes, and again, we were up by 17 at one point.

And we had 26 minutes of TOP.

I'm not saying we should've walked all over Detroit's defense like they were the Colts, but what I am saying is with a 17 point lead, using a well balanced offense, we could've scored more than what we did yesterday and limited our defense chances to screw it up.

There was no excuse for Cam having to throw 38 times yesterday, which translates into the lack of TOP, which then puts our defense on the field more and they can't get themselves off of it until the other team scores.

Every time you are down late in the game, you end up with more passing attempts but that's actually fairly balanced for a passing offense. But even on our tying touchdown drive, we passed to Johnathan Stewart(26 yards) and Williams(32 yards). They did run. Those yards were not by air. Stewart was our best receiver so a lot of those passes were short and went for yards after catch. It's just how the game works. Deangelo Williams and Stew were running great because if you would have paid attention to the announcers they said the Lions had a pretty bad run defense.

And I already posted it in the other thread but our offense had two back to back 3 and outs in the third quarter, and on the punt of the second 3 and out, our punting unit got a penalty which gave Detroit the ball at our own 30 yard line. The rest you know what happened. 3 interceptions followed, including another one in our own red zone. So really, the 4 interceptions and 3 three and outs is what put our defense on the field more. That's 7 times the offense turned over the ball by way of offensive failure.

Our defense got us 3 turnovers and 4 three and outs. So they put the offense one extra time on the field than the Lions D put theirs(the Lions last pick came when it was over). But their offense was simply more efficient. We failed to capitalize on 2 red-zone turnovers from our D, turned over the ball in the red-zone instead of scoring twice, and then once in our own end of the field. Big difference, as the score showed.

[teeray]

Every time you are down late in the game, you end up with more passing attempts but that's actually fairly balanced for a passing offense. But even on our tying touchdown drive, we passed to Johnathan Stewart(26 yards) and Williams(32 yards). They did run. Those yards were not by air. Stewart was our best receiver so a lot of those passes were short and went for yards after catch. It's just how the game works. Deangelo Williams and Stew were running great because if you would have paid attention to the announcers they said the Lions had a pretty bad run defense.

And I already posted it in the other thread but our offense had two back to back 3 and outs in the third quarter, and on the punt of the second 3 and out, our punting unit got a penalty which gave Detroit the ball at our own 30 yard line. The rest you know what happened. 3 interceptions followed, including another one in our own red zone. So really, the 4 interceptions and 3 three and outs is what put our defense on the field more. That's 7 times the offense turned over the ball by way of offensive failure.

Our defense got us 3 turnovers and 4 three and outs. So they put the offense one extra time on the field than the Lions D put theirs(the Lions last pick came when it was over). But their offense was simply more efficient. We failed to capitalize on 2 red-zone turnovers from our D, turned over the ball in the red-zone instead of scoring twice, and then once in our own end of the field. Big difference, as the score showed.

I will say it again. This was one of our offense's best games. We were one of the best offenses in the league yesterday.

[panthers55]

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011102311/2011/REG7/colts@saints#tab=analyze&recap=fullstory&menu=highlights

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011112006/2011/REG11/panthers@lions#menu=highlights&tab=analyze

P55, my problem is the lack of balance. I love that we're aggressive and an attacking offense, but attacking doesn't always mean we have to pass either.

We were up 17 on them at one point yesterday, and being that our defense got away with 3 turnovers somehow to start the game, we should've worked the clock from the 1st quarter on and took our shots in between.

I looked at the Saints stats from their 62-burger they put on the Colts because they are an attacking/vertical style offense as well - but what makes them so good is their balance...

They had a total of 36 first downs that game, 16 by rushing, 19 by passing. Balance.

They had 38 rushes to Brees' 35 passes, of which he completed 31 of them. Balance.

They had 38 mins in TOP, also suggests balance and a good rhythm to the playcalling.

We had the benefit of 3 TOs and a KO return early in the game, had a 17 point lead and this is what we looked like:

We had 24 first downs, 7 by rushing, 12 by passing.

26 total rushes, including Cam's runs and sacks to Cam's 38 passes. And as has been mentioned all over the forum since yesterday, DLo was running great and averaging 7+ YPC. 38 passes, and again, we were up by 17 at one point.

And we had 26 minutes of TOP.

I'm not saying we should've walked all over Detroit's defense like they were the Colts, but what I am saying is with a 17 point lead, using a well balanced offense, we could've scored more than what we did yesterday and limited our defense chances to screw it up.

There was no excuse for Cam having to throw 38 times yesterday, which translates into the lack of TOP, which then puts our defense on the field more and they can't get themselves off of it until the other team scores.

So now that this is not a conversation about Cam regressing, we can debate it. Your most important point was something you casually mentioned, we didn't play the Colts yesterday and Newton is no Drew Brees right now. The rest of it is pretty irrelevant. Comparing our game against Detroit who was playing at home after getting spanked by Chicago and embarassed by us in the first half obviously gave them a lot of motivation in the second half and it showed. Couple that with a defense that wore out and you ge the tale of 2 halves.

Still that game had nothing to do with the Colts playing the Saints earlier this year. Any correlations in my mind make no sense.

Shoud we have run more? Should we gone with safer passes? All of that is Monday morning quarterbacking. When any of us get to be an offensive coordinator we can properly evaluate what Chud should or shouldn't have done. I just rest my case on one simple fact. We scored 35 points yesterday and lost. That is pretty ridiculous in my book. When we sit here and debate about how the offense should have been better because scoring 28 points and getting 7 more on special teams still resulting in a 14 point loss we are talking about the wrong unit in my mind.

[Proudiddy]

I won't address trolling, but he threw a total of 38 times yesterday and we had a 17 point lead... A majority of those passes did not come late after we blew the lead. Chud is forcing things when we should have some balance and kill clock.

But, as Jangler mentioned yesterday, it's apparent they are wanting to use this time as "development" for Cam down the road, although I think he's already fairly developed and dominant as a passer - give him some help.

[davos]

I will say it again. This was one of our offense's best games. We were one of the best offenses in the league yesterday.

:skep:

[carolinarolls]

alts are gay

"ignore" is for pussies

this is a free board... embrace the dumbasses

[davos]

alts are gay

"ignore" is for pussies

this is a free board... embrace the dumbasses

ftw (& in my case, I may be embracing myself :D)

with this in mind, you can then at least talk football rather than talking about each others posting qualities :gnorsi:

[Proudiddy]

So now that this is not a conversation about Cam regressing, we can debate it. Your most important point was something you casually mentioned, we didn't play the Colts yesterday and Newton is no Drew Brees right now. The rest of it is pretty irrelevant. Comparing our game against Detroit who was playing at home after getting spanked by Chicago and embarassed by us in the first half obviously gave them a lot of motivation in the second half and it showed. Couple that with a defense that wore out and you ge the tale of 2 halves.

Still that game had nothing to do with the Colts playing the Saints earlier this year. Any correlations in my mind make no sense.

Shoud we have run more? Should we gone with safer passes? All of that is Monday morning quarterbacking. When any of us get to be an offensive coordinator we can properly evaluate what Chud should or shouldn't have done. I just rest my case on one simple fact. We scored 35 points yesterday and lost. That is pretty ridiculous in my book. When we sit here and debate about how the offense should have been better because scoring 28 points and getting 7 more on special teams still resulting in a 14 point loss we are talking about the wrong unit in my mind.

I was using the Saints balance as an example of what we should aim for, and I used that game because they were up by a good margin the majority of it.

We went up 17, we should've milked the clock.

That is part of why our defense "wore out," as you said, even though by my standards they are wore out the minute they step on the field each week, lol. The defense shouldn't have been on the field that much yesterday. Once we took the lead, why are we still passing like that and saving clock for them? Why are we only converting 30% of our 3rd downs if our offense was so dominant? Putting the defense out there even more...

Those are my gripes. And yes, we should be happy with 28 points, problem is, we should've been the team with 49 points instead considering we started the game with 3 forced turnovers and a short field on 2 of those possessions. I just don't like Chud's playcalling once we get a lead, it's horrible.

[teeray]

:skep:

Here. Let me explain.

According to PFFL/Truedat offensive YPP is considered to him to be offensive efficiency. He claims that everything is accounted for including turnover, 3 and outs, red zone efficiency, and even special teams TDs. He has referred to it as "the best and only model for offensive efficiency"

Well yesterday our offense posted a YPP of 11.7 (409 total yards and 35 total points). That would put us at #2 in the entire NFL!! Heck that would put us, in terms of "offensive efficiency", dangerously close to GB who is at 11.5.

So clearly PFFL/truedat knows that we had one of the best offenses in the NFL yesterday. Extremely efficient.

Unless..... no it couldn't be.... could it be that YPP isn't actually a representation of what is actually going on on the field and is a scoring efficiency measure used for handicapping games and not an accurate offensive efficiency model.

Couldn't be that. That would blow up the bullpoo argument and all those lengthy algorithms PFFL/Truedat produced the last two weeks. God forbid something like yesterday prove his entire theory on YPP would be completely undermined. If not then he would have to agree that our offense was top 2 in the league yesterday.

[carolinarolls]

ftw (& in my case, I may be embracing myself :D)

with this in mind, you can then at least talk football rather than talking about each others posting qualities :gnorsi:

I agree for the record. And this board has a decent handful of good football minds and a good amount of actual fans despite their opinions.

This season however has been the perfect storm for attracting clueless morons to the Huddle and poaching them while not actually therapeutic, can serve as a distraction.

[TrueDat]

I will say it again. This was one of our offense's best games. We were one of the best offenses in the league yesterday.

I don't really care what you say. You have one of the most offensive/Cam Newton biased views on here. You have no idea what constitutes a good offensive performance.

-An offense that doesn't drive down the length of the field until the 4th quarter after they stumbled all game long is not a good offensive performance.

-Being in the red-zone 3 times in the first half, and only coming up with 10 points is not good. By anyone's measure. You might as well kick 3 FG's from the 35 yard line. You get 9 points when you do that. 10 points off of 3 trips to the red-zone is a failure in one half. 10 points off of 4 is even worse when you count the third quarter interception.

-Getting 2 three and outs, and putting your defense in a position to defend from our own red-zone, followed by an interception in the opponent's red-zone in the third quarter is not a good offensive performance. It's part of what makes for a blown lead.

-throwing 3 interceptions in the last 18 minutes of the game when the game is tied or down by one score is NOT a good offensive performance.

-when your quarterback has a rating of 50.0 and 4 interceptions, and the offense has 3 three and outs, that never makes for a good offensive performance. It's one of the worst.

Our defense did have one of its best performances in the first half. Our offense didn't play good the entire game.

[Silent Majority]

I didn't visit here yesterday hoping that all the ignorant ranting and whining would subside but unfortunately it didn't.

Cam didn't regress because every week is a brand new experience for him against new coordinators who he hasn't played against. So he will be given looks that will be completely new for him. So for him to regress he would have to play worse than he did against a team earlier. Since he has never played Detroit in Detroit how exactly could he possibly regress. Even when he plays division teams it will still be home and away scenarios. So lets shelve the ignorant regression talk until next year which is the first time it could even be relevant. If he throws for 400 yards against 1 team and 200 yards against another that is not regression, that is playing differently against 2 different defenses and coordinators.

As for him playing poor, that isn't really true either. He did some good things and put up points in the first half, had some good runs, some great screens and generally did what it took to gain a lead. Even in the fourth quarter he brought us back for a tying score which is exactly what people said he couldn't do. Anyone who thinks the last 2 interceptions were issues needs to understand football. Expecting him to rally twice in the fourth quarter and score again with 2 minutes on the clock is unrealistic at best. If the defense had even been ok in the second half we could have won this game. 35 points in 2 quarters has to be the worse defensive performance ever. I doubt anyone could have won this game for us let alone a rookie.

The lack of football acumen on this board put us in the same boat as Atlanta and the Saints boards which frankly is a bad thing.

I disagree with you at times, but this is spot on. So much so, that this post should be stickyed.

[Panthers128]

He hasn't taken a step back, he's taken a leap back.

[panthers55]

I won't address trolling, but he threw a total of 38 times yesterday and we had a 17 point lead... A majority of those passes did not come late after we blew the lead. Chud is forcing things when we should have some balance and kill clock.

But, as Jangler mentioned yesterday, it's apparent they are wanting to use this time as "development" for Cam down the road, although I think he's already fairly developed and dominant as a passer - give him some help.

We ran a total of 26 times for 137 yards. BUt if you take out Newton yards and Williams 1 big run, we didn't run the ball all that great. Stewart ran 8 times for 22 yards- less than 3 yards a carry. Williams ran 10 times for 73 yards but if you take out the one 29 yard run he ran 9 times for 44 yards the rest of the game, not exactly dominant. So no, we were not so great running the ball that we should have done it 10 or 15 times more.

In the third quarter while we were up - we ran the ball 4 and passed 6. Even when we were down 1 point and then by 8- we ran the ball 10 times and threw 6 times. (check out the play by play). It wasn't until we were out of it by 14 points we went to throwing it exclusively.

So tell me again how bad the balance was in the second half while we were still in the game.