Cam hasn't taken a step back

[panthers55]

I am not excusing the defense at all.

But it certainly could have mattered what the offense did. One long drive for a td in the third quarter would have taken some time off the clock and given them fewer opportunities to score.

Detroit scored often and mostly quickly. Drives help whenever they happen but that wasn't why we lost. We created few stops and no turnovers in the second half.

[mav1234]

I dunno about hypotheticals. If we come out and score a TD to start the third, maybe we don't allow a punt return to the 30. If our defense stops them there to a FG at least instead of a TD, maybe the offense gets momentum and scores and takes control of the game again. So much could have been different, but it wasn't.

All we have to work with is that the offense struggled in the second half and the defense blew chunks for three quarters. This loss took a team collapse... =|

[panthers55]

But, that is my issue with the scheme/play designs when it comes to runs. What does he expect in 1 RB/1 TE sets with a non-blocking TE? He runs a lot of cracks and seals using the WRs out of passing formations when we do run, but it isn't fooling anyone.

And it seems we run our best in the first half and then with the lead is when we start running for a yard a pop and end up spinning our wheels. The run game usually dies in the 2nd half in both attempts and yardage from what I remember in each game.

I don't know that we have any actual "power" runs in our playbook. Only time I've seen a semblance of them was on goal to go, and barely even then.

It's just frustrating that everytime we have gotten the lead the offense loses all rhythm and then it spirals into repeated 3 and outs and putting our sorry defense back out there to get torched...

But, it's clear we are sitting on two different sides of this thing and likely won't budge from our positions lol, so I'll just leave it at that.

We don't do a lot of power runs particularly with Williams who doesn't do that well between the tackles. He is great in space and on the edges. Once he gets the edge he is gone. Problem is springing him.

I agree the offense sputtering in the second half is a problem but nothing compared to the defense being porous. There was a time when you knew that the defense was going to be stout and leep you in the game for your offense to win in the second half. There wasn't great pressure to have to score on every drive. That was years ago though. I think part of the offense's issue is that they have to go balls out and can't run the ball and play field position with the lead. As the defense showed yesterday, no lead is big enough not to lose.

[Proudiddy]

We don't do a lot of power runs particularly with Williams who doesn't do that well between the tackles. He is great in space and on the edges. Once he gets the edge he is gone. Problem is springing him.

I agree the offense sputtering in the second half is a problem but nothing compared to the defense being porous. There was a time when you knew that the defense was going to be stout and leep you in the game for your offense to win in the second half. There wasn't great pressure to have to score on every drive. That was years ago though. I think part of the offense's issue is that they have to go balls out and can't run the ball and play field position with the lead. As the defense showed yesterday, no lead is big enough not to lose.

Agreed. There obviously is some substance to what I'm complaining about with the offense, but ultimately, I think it's that I'm just searching for some other way to fix our problems or prevent them from happening b/c as-is, this defense is hopeless.

[teeray]

Agreed. There obviously is some substance to what I'm complaining about with the offense, but ultimately, I think it's that I'm just searching for some other way to fix our problems or prevent them from happening b/c as-is, this defense is hopeless.

Short term pain for long term gain. I think this offensive philosophy will reap great rewards if we stick with it in the near future. Maybe not this season or even next but this offense is going to be next to impossible to stop once our QB gets more comfortable, takes better care of the football, and most importantly just gets experience.

Turning the ball over 4 times and still scoring 35 points (or 28) is pretty hard to do in the NFL

[antame]

Cam's going to have to get better at hitting open receivers consistently. Obviously that's not our only problem, but it's a big one.

[beastson]

That's not our offense

I could careless about that. You play to win the game and the best way is introducing the most options as possible

Take the 4 offenses above us and you'll see the difference tween us and them is that

[TrueDat]

We were down 42 to 35 when he threw his third INT, and his fourth came on pretty much the last play of the game save for running out the clock.

1. The lions had 0 points off Cam's first two INTs and we kept our lead through both of them.

2. Our defense could not stop Detroit really after the first quarter at all... Their defense did stop ours...

It's not that hard to believe that we would have lost even if Cam hadn't thrown those interceptions.... The bigger problem was really the high balls and the offense's general inability to move the ball in the third quarter IMO.

edit: that being said, the interceptions *did not* help at all... but unsurprisingly it was again our defense which gave away a lead and even a tie later in the game and.. blah. Just feel like we are asking too much of a rookie.

:rofl:

You guys have reached the epitomy of reverse retard and double standard logic in the same exact post. It's happening non-stop. It's like I'm in the Twilight Zone. What has Cam Newton done to you? I don't know what that sounds like to you when you read your own words back or to anyone else but to me:

"At 8am this morning I was broke and hungry and borrowed some money from my friends. At 2 pm today I lost my wallet. I borrowed some money and a wallet from another friend. I lost my wallet like a dumbass again".

...

...

...

[Due to the immense stupidty and shock of his own mistakes he follows it up with:]

....

....

...

"My friends are such dicks. They never let me borrow money and I've been broke and hungry all day with nothing to eat. It's their fault I'm hungry."

:leaving:

PS: I'm sure most will not even notice it, because 90% of everyone is using the same mentality and logic. In your own words you just explained why it's so retarded to believe it can be anyone else's but your offense's fault when they have the ball and are tied or down by a score late in the game if they don't drive down to go and get the winning points. I better make it clear: The Lions must have fuging tripped and stopped themselves on all 4 downs and then handed the ball back to Cam Newton after those interceptions. I saw that too. Our defense was just hanging out in the stands when the Lions were defending themselves. Especially for that one int the 3rd quarter. Our D was up in the VIP watching the Lions trip and fall 4 times, then walk up and gently place the ball in Cam Newton's hand. Even snapped it for him. Cam gave them this stare, and they just tripped. Cam was A.M.A.Z.I.N.G

[chef17]

You can calculate ypp for anything. Offense, special teams offense, "actual" total offense. The one that most people track is that for the offense. There is a good reason why they do not add "total' yards. It would no longer be an offensive efficiency measurement. It would mean something else.

For one that would simply be your team's yards per point, and have nothing to do with offensive efficiency and we would be considered more efficient than San Francisco, who currently has the #4 most efficient offense and #1 in yards per point allowed(defense) and our special teams can't possibly make up for all that to make us rank that damn good. It would mean our special teams and defense are so good, they score punt returns, kick returns, and get pick sixes all day long.

For example if you decided to include just the special teams yards, you would wipe out a part of the measurement: starting field position and no team would ever really rank close to 100% or above unless they always obtained a takeaway every game, or scored a touchdown on every drive. Right now an average offense is roughly 16ypp. Last week it was 15.4. 100% ypp for any side of your team is 15.67. An average offense has 15.67 ypp or 14.28 depending on whether you include your PAT unit as part of your offense or not. If you do then it's 14.28 since they rarely miss it. So every time the special team got on the field those yards would count, whether they scored or not, or whether that drive ever ended up in a score or not. And as known, ypp is a measurement of your scoring offense.

So teams with very efficient offenses or very efficient teams in general who also have efficient defenses, who force 3 and outs, therefore putting their punt return on the field more often, would often end up scoring worse than the ones that don't. They would be punished by doing a good job by that measurement which no longer makes any sense.

The same would happen with every other team and nothing would make sense anymore. It would no longer be the most important stat in football and it would certainly no longer correlate directly to the most important statistic: winning/losing. It would fug up the entire purpose of the stat and stop being an offensive efficiency measurement period.

It isn't an offensive efficiency stat when you are dividing by points the offense didn't score

[TrueDat]

It isn't an offensive efficiency stat when you are dividing by points the offense didn't score

I hope you realize that every time you repeat some kind of stupid statement that started with Teeray and stats, you're spreading around stupidity.

Pleas stop. The dude can't even understand the charts he's reading, the rankings, what it means and what he's posting here. And he argues against me all day long just to try to learn something, instead of just asking.

Go read this. I wrote it just for you, Teeray and others who can't wrap their hands around YPP.

And stop trying to change the NFL's definitions. That is how the NFL tracks total points per game and total offense. They have a good reason for not including the yards. You can take the points out if you want. You can calculate YPP for anything you choose. Split it in 3, 5, 20 different YPP measurements for each side of your team, or player or whatever. It makes no difference in the end because they all have to be added back up together to get your total scoring offense. Because YPP measures an offense's efficiency in scoring. Not yards. Not points. It matters not if the yards are added.

But they already did the logic and research and know what the hell they are doing even though it's counter-intuitive to most people who do not understand this sport. Football is complex. But the way they track total offense and the reason you calculate ypp without touching anything is not just because that's how the NFL itself tracks the yards of a total offense as well as the points, but because it is the best way to do it without being redundant and without breaking the rules and logic of the sport. It's matching up to what they really define as total offense. Take the points away or add in the special teams yards, and you have a different measurement of ypp.

And any "per" stat is some sort of an efficiency ratio. Total Defense Yards Per Game: They refer to it as Total Defense(YPG). Total offense Yards Per Game: They refer to it as Total Offense(YPG). Neither one of those things are what the NFL defines as your real total offense or total defense. It's just yards.

[panthers55]

How many people on here give a crap about a stat designed to handicap games for betting purposes being used extraneously to criticize our offense?? About 5 people it seems from the responses???

How many folks think YPP accurately tells the tale of our team issues right now and where we are struggling??? About 1 from what I can tell if you strip all the PFFL alts away.

Why would someone come on this board and keep brining up the same crap and getting banned only to show up later with another ALT until they can get their old one back?? And keep doing the same thing over and over.

Hard to say. Lets ask TRD and PFFL and see what the answer is.

Who thinks at this time of year we would mostly all be thankful if we had a way of putting trolls and irritants into smack where people would have to go to argue with them rather than suffer through their drivel on the main page. Hard to believe this site will ever reach credibility if you just read the majority of posts on here particularly after a loss.

[TrueDat]

How many people on here give a crap about a stat designed to handicap games for betting purposes being used extraneously to criticize our offense?? About 5 people it seems from the responses???

How many folks think YPP accurately tells the tale of our team issues right now and where we are struggling??? About 1 from what I can tell if you strip all the PFFL alts away.

Why would someone come on this board and keep brining up the same crap and getting banned only to show up later with another ALT until they can get their old one back?? And keep doing the same thing over and over.

Hard to say. Lets ask TRD and PFFL and see what the answer is.

Who thinks at this time of year we would mostly all be thankful if we had a way of putting trolls and irritants into smack where people would have to go to argue with them rather than suffer through their drivel on the main page. Hard to believe this site will ever reach credibility if you just read the majority of posts on here particularly after a loss.

None. Because that's not what yards per point is and it certainly isn't designed for that. It's used for that. But it's your offense's efficiency measurement. It measures your offenses' ability to score points efficiently, which would make it the absolute most important measurement for a team.

You are just using dumbass regurgitated phrases by others to basically discount the most important statistic for an offense.

That which determines how efficient you are at scoring points!

And who cares? Oh I don't know anyone that likes football, wants to know what makes a good football team and cares about ranking teams or competition? Anybody that likes college football? Anybody that likes NFL. Anybody that wants to know how good your offense might be at scoring points? Anybody that cares about winning. Anybody that cares about the playoffs. Anybody that cares about the Super Bowl. All of those people would care about offensive efficiency and yards per point. Anyone who cares about reality and not fantasy. Facts and not opinions. Anyone who cares about winning in general and what we can do to become better at it?

Do any of you fit in that category anymore? It's hard for this forum to have any credibility when you call people who care about this, trolls while you go around all day and spout opinion that has nothing to do with reality. I'm just trying to help.

Because it's a direct correlation and indication of every single one of those things. And it's the best one at it. It's also the best possible way to figure out which part of your team is better!

So why the hell should anyone give a damn about any of those other stats you like to throw around if you don't first look at this one when those are far less meaningful and this one matters the most? Not to mention it includes every single one of them in it?

[panthers55]

None. Because that's not what yards per point is and it certainly isn't designed for that. It's used for that. But it's your offense's efficiency measurement. It measures your offenses' ability to score points efficiently, which would make it the absolute most important measurement for a team.

You are just using dumbass regurgitated phrases by others to basically discount the most important statistic for an offense.

That which determines how efficient you are at scoring points!

I already counted you as the one who cares. I was looking for everyone else. One question though. Does YPP appear on any stat kept by NFL.com which is recognized as the official source for the league. If so, where it is? If not why not. I wonder why you take up hundred of posts under several alts discussing an unofficial stat deemed unimportant by the NFL. Maybe it is because only you and a handful of others care and the world isn't about you. Maybe they think it is irrelevant and not as good as you think. Or maybe it is better described by something else which is simply points and who cares about the yards which mean nothing.

In any event why not shut up and stop trying to dominate the conversation when you keep derailing threads, let others contribute.

[CRA]

Cam is on pace....

When all is said and done to account for more yards and more TDs than any rookie QB in NFL history.....

Cam ain't the problem. Cam is a rookie. The defense and ST in Carolina are a joke....simple and plain. You want to win you look at fixing the D and ST.