Cam hasn't taken a step back

[mav1234]

I think this board is still living in pre draft times when there was a lot of Cam opposition. Lately it's been one poster, that's it.

No one expects Cam to be amazing each touch of the ball, but it's also worth noting that he has played bad games lately. It doesn't mean he sucks, it doesn't mean we are going to draft Luck #1 overall, it just means he's played bad games lately.

It's okay to admit that. It doesn't mean it's his fault we lost, he contributed, but we are worse off at other places on the field.

I just don't understand how it has to be 100% Cam ass licking all the time, no matter how bad he plays.

There were 3 different posters yesterday bitching about Cam actually. in general the regular posters are all pretty pro Cam or middle of the road, but there's PFFL and a few new guys who seem to have a hardon for trolling us about Cam.

I don't really think it's 100% cam ass licking all the time and I actually think that fans these days are more reasonable than after the first two weeks - there were a couple threads about his mechanical errors yesterday, one of which is still on the front page. But the reality is that Cam is the brightest "spot" this season. Given that, it kinda sucks to talk about what he's also doing wrong because when you recognize that, you recognize how shitty this season truly is. At the same time, I do think you are right that we can admit he's not playing well without "abandoning" him or some other bullpoo.

[TheRealDeal]

I try and stay out of the main forum as much as possible now so I may not be up on who is bashing who, I just assumed they were all alts.

See you in the NFL Forum :)

[mav1234]

PFFL is a bit different, it's possible the others are all trolls using the same name, but I don't think so since one of them just spammed the same post in like 10 threads across 4 forums, then came back to respond to anyone who posted a reply

[TheRealDeal]

Sounds like the anti footballisasport

[panthers55]

You're twisting my words P55, I said we should be running 55-45 to 60-40 when we are up. Most teams do, unless you are like Green Bay... But, they still run enough to make you respect the play action.

That's my issue. As I said, I love the passing game and the attacking/vertical system we run... But, Chud just doesn't seem to make in-game adjustments and he's at his best when it doesn't matter. When we get the lead he struggles and the offense loses all rhythm.

We have two great backs and he isn't utilizing them in the run game enough... I don't want Foxball again and I love what we're doing for the most part, I'm just saying I think those minor tweaks would do wonders for the offense and help Cam even more.

I think the whole we should run when we are ahead or we should have a 60-40 split is ridiculous in the context of how playcalling occurs. for example if we run on first down and get 1 yard you can count on the fact we are throwing on second down. If we are incomplete or the pass goes for less than 6 yards, we are throwing on third down. It doesn't matter whether we are ahead or behind because we need a first down and will try and get it anyway we can. On the other hand if we run the ball for 6 yards on first down, the liklihood we run again is at least 50% or higher. It is all a function of foremost down and distance to earn first downs. Running out the clock etc are issues secondarily to the primarily one which is making first downs and advancing the ball. Chud is doing that the best way he knows how. Frankly I don't have any complaints and wonder about people who do.

[ncmonzta]

I try and stay out of the main forum as much as possible now so I may not be up on who is bashing who, I just assumed they were all alts.

See you in the NFL Forum :)

Try a little harder:)

[TrueDat]

YPP is the offensive yards divided by total points. So it would be better to have less offensive yards, total yards aren't apart of the calculation.

You can calculate ypp for anything. Offense, special teams offense, "actual" total offense. The one that most people track is that for the offense. There is a good reason why they do not add "total' yards. It would no longer be an offensive efficiency measurement. It would mean something else.

For one that would simply be your team's yards per point, and have nothing to do with offensive efficiency and we would be considered more efficient than San Francisco, who currently has the #4 most efficient offense and #1 in yards per point allowed(defense) and our special teams can't possibly make up for all that to make us rank that damn good. It would mean our special teams and defense are so good, they score punt returns, kick returns, and get pick sixes all day long.

For example if you decided to include just the special teams yards, you would wipe out a part of the measurement: starting field position and no team would ever really rank close to 100% or above unless they always obtained a takeaway every game, or scored a touchdown on every drive. Right now an average offense is roughly 16ypp. Last week it was 15.4. 100% ypp for any side of your team is 15.67. An average offense has 15.67 ypp or 14.28 depending on whether you include your PAT unit as part of your offense or not. If you do then it's 14.28 since they rarely miss it. So every time the special team got on the field those yards would count, whether they scored or not, or whether that drive ever ended up in a score or not. And as known, ypp is a measurement of your scoring offense.

So teams with very efficient offenses or very efficient teams in general who also have efficient defenses, who force 3 and outs, therefore putting their punt return on the field more often, would often end up scoring worse than the ones that don't. They would be punished by doing a good job by that measurement which no longer makes any sense.

The same would happen with every other team and nothing would make sense anymore. It would no longer be the most important stat in football and it would certainly no longer correlate directly to the most important statistic: winning/losing. It would fug up the entire purpose of the stat and stop being an offensive efficiency measurement period.

[dimbee]

The rest of the league has caught up to him. He now has over half a season of game tape out there.

Opponents can study his strengths

Opponents can study his weaknesses

Opponents can study his tendencies

So lets stop this "cam is regressing" horse dung. Cam is not regressing. Despite defensive coordinators now game planning for him (by the way, who was the last Panthers QB a defense had to completely game plan around....I'll wait), Cam continues to put up the cheese and do more than enough to win games in this league (provided a Panthers defense that is actual NFL quality).

So the next time you hear about "Cam is regressing, Cam is losing it, etc" Just slap that idiot in the face and hope Pavlovian conditioning takes hold.

Love,

Zod

I don't know about Cam regressing, but it does appear that the Panthers Offense yet again is incapable of making in-game adjustments to what the Defense is doing. I'd attribute more to that than to Cam "regressing" or whatnot.

I will also say that it shouldn't be a requirement to slurp the Cam-flavored Kool-Aid in order to be a Panthers fan... a fan is allowed to be critical of the players on their team, you know. Just because Cam does the "Superman" after he scores does not mean that he is that.

I would really hate for this forum to get all Panthers lock-step.

[CatMan72]

Losing Shockey and not being able to effectively run 2 TE sets has been a setback to our offense. Shockey went down on the first offensive snap of the Titans game and while he played a few snaps in that game he wasn't the same guy.

[Davidson Deac II]

I think this board is still living in pre draft times when there was a lot of Cam opposition. Lately it's been one poster, that's it.

No one expects Cam to be amazing each touch of the ball, but it's also worth noting that he has played bad games lately. It doesn't mean he sucks, it doesn't mean we are going to draft Luck #1 overall, it just means he's played bad games lately.

It's okay to admit that. It doesn't mean it's his fault we lost, he contributed, but we are worse off at other places on the field.

I just don't understand how it has to be 100% Cam ass licking all the time, no matter how bad he plays.

Very rational statement. Fwiw, I think Zod was right to an extent. Opposing defenses have caught on to the best ways to defend our offense (not just Cam, but the entire offense). As we get more experienced in the new offense and at qb, that will be less of an issue I hope. Right now, it is a problem, although it pales in comparison to the defensive issues.

[CatMan72]

On the other hand, when your defense gives up 35 points in the 2nd half of the game, does it really matter what Cam does?

[tiger7_88]

Rookie wall.

If he hasn't hit it yet, he's getting pretty close to it. And honestly, no one should be surprised by that.

This is what I said about the "rookie wall" a few posts above.

I'm still worried about that MRI he had a couple of weeks ago. Not that I think he's injured, but I think its a good indication that his shoulder is sore.

Last year, in 14 games at Auburn, he threw the ball 280 times (20 attempts per game).

This year, in 10 games, he's thrown the ball 365 times (36.5 attempts per game).

That's one HELLUVA "rookie wall" to hit. I'm not saying for sure that is WHY he is missing high, but it sure as heck could be.

That is one heck of a lot more passes that he's thrown. And that's not counting his practice passes. And that's not counting his offseason passes at IMG. And that's not counting his offseason passes working with George Whitfield pre-draft. Kid has thrown the ball a HELLUVA lot this year.

[TrueDat]

I also must say that anyone thinking Cam hasn't taken a step back, for whatever reason, is just as dumb as anyone thinking YPP is the ultimate statistic.

It is. The first is winning and losing. The ultimate is ypp. There is nothing else that actually matters when it comes to offense, so you might as well call it last.

1. winning losing.

2. yards per point. scoring offense efficiency. or your total offense's efficiency.

Point differential comes close, but point differential is included in YPP. Because everything is included in YPP. All the NFL stats combined are included in YPP. And anything that's not a stat, but affects that team's ability to score points is also included in YPP. So if you affected our ability to score points somehow by jinxing them, your jinx would be included in ypp. EVERYTHING is included in ypp.

[TrueDat]

what? cam threw to 7 other receivers yesterday for 290 yds. and let's not forget smitty's epic fail drop on 3d down. cam made things happen more often than not. taking your team the distance to tie in the 4th is more than special. having a defense that needed to make stop and relieve some pressure but failed to do so is not.

i will tell you who is nothing special and that's jimmy clausen. we could bring him back if you really think cam is nothing special, but i think half the huddle might torch your house on christmas.

Uhm...our best receiver was Johnathan Stewart and most of his yards came by way of rushing not air.

He did make things happen more often than not. But they were more bad, than good.