Cam hasn't taken a step back

[ncmonzta]

I don't think he's taking a step back. He had a few throws that were off and a couple he shouldn't have thrown, but he's done that every game and not once this season has he been perfect. He wasn't as bad as the last game. I still think our o-line can do a lot better with the protection. Sometimes the game just goes the other way. Defense is taking the steps back. It's like when there's two guys around the ball they both expect the other to make the play and they end up looking at each other as the ball carrier keeps on going.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Ah, so he should only be blamed for poor passes when there is absolutely zero pressure. Got it. And here I was thinking it was his job.

(and, for the record, he misfired quite often even when there was no pressure)

[panthers55]

I wasn't just referring to the 2nd half, I was referring to when we were up in general, especially when we were up 17 points in the first half. Look at the first half play by play. When we were up 17-7, we passed three times, went 3 and out, punted, Detroit bailed us out with an illegal hands to the face penalty, then we ran twice for 30 some yards and Cam scored a TD. So they bailed us out and we went up 24-7. Without that penalty, those two runs, and TD doesn't happen.

Next possession we got the ball back with 2:57 left and passed every play but the two (ten passes, two runs), which is somewhat expected because of the time left and kicked a FG before halftime.

Also, I just went back and looked at the 3rd quarter... For the entire quarter, it broke down 8 runs, 9 passes. Sad part is, we ran the ball more after we gave up the lead then we did while we had the lead. That was also the start of run, run, pass... So you proved my point. 6 passes, 4 runs with the lead. 4 runs, 3 passes when behind. I mean balance relative to the circumstances - we were up, good balance would be 55-45 run, or 60-40 run, if possible.

We were still passing more than we were running.

Why did we start running MORE when we fell behind? Which brings me to my other points, Chud's playcalling once we take a lead is horrible and his run designs, aside from a few of the options where defenders miss assignments, are horrible as well.

Good luck getting more than 2 or 3 yards in a 1 TE 1 RB set with Olsen in as the blocker against Detroit's front.

And then in the 4th on the first possession, we ran twice for 12 yards, then threw 3 times (inc., sack, inc.) and had to punt. Good playcalling? lol...

Next posession, Detroit had taken a 35-27 lead...

4 runs and 2 passes later, we score. Remember, that 60-40 ratio? Where was this at earlier in the 2nd half? I'm sure they didn't come out in the 3rd quarter with 8 in the box, as we've shown we like to pass.

Next possession, Detroit scored again, 42-35.

Passed once, intercepted.

Detroit scores again...

We get the ball back with 2 mins left and pass 6 times until we are intercepted again.

The one time we ran more than we passed, we scored. We weren't down by more than 8 until 2 minutes were left in the game. So why were we passing 60-40 with a 2 score lead in the 3rd quarter again?

Now I get it. If you looking for a 60-40 split run to pass you are going to be disappointed. Then again you will be disappointed with any team. Who run 60% of the time unless you are Denver? We are built to pass and will do that ahead or behind. If that doesn't work for you then prepare to be disappointed. We won't ever be a primarily running team again. By the way how is the mix when you add in the short screens and dump off passes which are an extension of the running game? You find we were roughly 50-50 for the game and we accounted for almost 200 yards. So I fail to see your point on this one.

[Wither]

Honestly, I sometimes feel you try to come up with the worst posts possible.

You caught me.

[Proudiddy]

Now I get it. If you looking for a 60-40 split run to pass you are going to be disappointed. Then again you will be disappointed with any team. Who run 60% of the time unless you are Denver? We are built to pass and will do that ahead or behind. If that doesn't work for you then prepare to be disappointed. We won't ever be a primarily running team again. By the way how is the mix when you add in the short screens and dump off passes which are an extension of the running game? You find we were roughly 50-50 for the game and we accounted for almost 200 yards. So I fail to see your point on this one.

You're twisting my words P55, I said we should be running 55-45 to 60-40 when we are up. Most teams do, unless you are like Green Bay... But, they still run enough to make you respect the play action.

That's my issue. As I said, I love the passing game and the attacking/vertical system we run... But, Chud just doesn't seem to make in-game adjustments and he's at his best when it doesn't matter. When we get the lead he struggles and the offense loses all rhythm.

We have two great backs and he isn't utilizing them in the run game enough... I don't want Foxball again and I love what we're doing for the most part, I'm just saying I think those minor tweaks would do wonders for the offense and help Cam even more.

[panthers55]

To be fair, many people had Cam in the top 5 QBs in the league just 4 weeks ago.

If you were to say that was hype back then, you'd be banned. If it wasn't just hype or "beginners luck" as some might put it, you'd have to say it's a step back.

If not, the early season was a mirage.

There is nothing wrong with having a step back from where he was and there is nothing to indicate this trend will continue into the future, but it's a little concerning.

Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It won't matter until year 3.

Not a step back at all. Multiple folks and countless talking heads all agreed he would come back to earth and the 400 yardage passing days were not sustainable. This is just a combination of things combining to make him look like a top 15 quarterback right now instead of top 5. I have no concerns at all and would have serious questions about tthe validity of anyone who would at this point.

[TheRealDeal]

TRD - I know you feel, Cam can do no wrong in most of our eyes, but the truth is, this kid will never be able to do anything right in a lot of people's eyes.

I consider myself in the middle, but to the vast majority of people who think he can do no wrong, anyone who doesn't see this obviously think he can do no right. I've accepted that, despite my praise of Cam.

[DangerClose]

I think the reality is that Cam's game was very simplistic and teams have "figured him out"/

I think the real issue affecting Cam AND why he was so successful early on wasn't about Cam.. it was about Steve Smith.

Teams are controlling Smith which is showing where Cam really is. Without Smith carrying him at this point he's nothing special.

what? cam threw to 7 other receivers yesterday for 290 yds. and let's not forget smitty's epic fail drop on 3d down. cam made things happen more often than not. taking your team the distance to tie in the 4th is more than special. having a defense that needed to make stop and relieve some pressure but failed to do so is not.

i will tell you who is nothing special and that's jimmy clausen. we could bring him back if you really think cam is nothing special, but i think half the huddle might torch your house on christmas.

[mav1234]

I don't think what we've seen from Cam is a true step back, it's just that his first two weeks were absolutely ridiculous and teams had forgotten Steve Smith was an elite receiver and thought we'd just only run the ball. Since then, Cam has been relatively consistent in terms of his ability to move the offense a few times a game regardless of who is on defense. He has also generally had the same mistakes. A couple times a game, he makes a bad decision. When pressured he will throw off his back foot. When asked to pick apart a zone defense he can have trouble. These are all not uncommon for young quarterbacks, and despite them, he is still playing well enough for us to win games if we had a decent defense.

Cam got help from special teams last week, and unsurprisingly, we dominated the 1st half. It wasn't until the 2nd half, when we really had breakdowns on on both defense and special teams, that the wheels came off the team.... with the offense following suit. Of course, despite that, our young QB tied the game on a long TD drive and 2 pt conversion late in the 4th quarter.

Cam may not be a top 5 QB right now, but IMO you can make an argument for him as much as any other young QB right now to build a franchise around, and that's a good thing.

Even Cam's worst game this year he showed glimpses of the kind of thing you want to see in a starting quarterback, long-term. Last year we asked Jimmy Clausen to show use glimpses of that ability, and he simply failed to do so. Cam has done it in such spades that some people seem to require it of him every time he touches the ball or they think he is regressing or are disappointed in him...

[mav1234]

I consider myself in the middle, but to the vast majority of people who think he can do no wrong, anyone who doesn't see this obviously think he can do no right. I've accepted that, despite my praise of Cam.

I think what sometimes happens though is that some people seem to want to blame Cam for all our losses... when in reality, there are other units who deserve as much if not more blame. I think this is where some of the turmoil starts. Obviously there are also those who explain away every mistake Cam makes... those people are equally wrong. I think the truth lies some place in the middle... Cam isn't perfect, but he's playing well for a rookie, and more than well enough for us to have won more games than we have if the other units on the team were even average.

I personally think that we have no idea if Cam will pan out to be the quarterback so many here hope he will be... but he's looked good for a youngster and that's about all you can ask at this point.

[TheRealDeal]

I think this board is still living in pre draft times when there was a lot of Cam opposition. Lately it's been one poster, that's it.

No one expects Cam to be amazing each touch of the ball, but it's also worth noting that he has played bad games lately. It doesn't mean he sucks, it doesn't mean we are going to draft Luck #1 overall, it just means he's played bad games lately.

It's okay to admit that. It doesn't mean it's his fault we lost, he contributed, but we are worse off at other places on the field.

I just don't understand how it has to be 100% Cam ass licking all the time, no matter how bad he plays.

[beastson]

Design more short routes and use quicker receivers and he'll be fine

[TheRealDeal]

That's not our offense

[teeray]

I also must say that anyone thinking Cam hasn't taken a step back, for whatever reason, is just as dumb as anyone thinking YPP is the ultimate statistic.

I'm not ready to say Cam is regressing per se. But his last two games have been arguably his worst two games of the year. Although yesterday was a really mixed bag. He had 4 picks and some wildly inaccurate passes. But then again did enough to put 28 points on the board and he scored 3 TDs.

Plus the two games before these last two were arguably his best (4 tds 0 int, although he did have two lost fumbles).

I think the problem is that his start has put expectations at an unreasonable height. Now it seems like if he doesn't pass for 300 yards 3 TDs, lead us to TDs on every other drive, and no interceptions some are asking "What is wrong with Cam".

To be honest this last game is what I was expecting from Cam at the beginning of the season. Flashes of brilliance intertwined with rookie carelessness and rookie decisions. Maybe not 4 INTs every game but games like this.

But then after his start you expect him to be great every game. And when he struggles like most rookies do for a couple of games you question whether it was a flash in the pan and maybe he is regressing and not as good as we thought he was. (when I say you I mean that generally not you specifically TRD)

But you can call me a hugger or apologist or optimist for this next statement. But when Cam finally gets comfortable. It may not be this year, it may not be next year, but when it happens this offense they way Chud envisions it will be amongst the best in the league. Maybe the best.

Yesterday Cam had an off day by his standards even as a rookie. he still managed 28 points. Just wait until his mechanics develop and he feels more comfortable and the game slows down for him.

I think people are getting anxious and feel we are so close and get frustrated when another week goes by and it doesn't happen but it takes time and experience. Especially the experience part.