It's a rebuilding and a learning season for all. Calm the fuck down

[Lumps]

Teams with less talent and more injuries have had more success winning games. Including our very own 2004 team (?).

If you want to say 'poo happens' fine, but I agree with Rivera, it's just an excuse and one thing does not cause another.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Honestly, I think people realize all this already. They just feel the need to put positive spins on their team no matter how obvious it is that they have a serious lack of talent. Maybe they feel it's their duty as fans or just a way to make them feel better about having another losing season. Who knows.

[Jangler]

Honestly, I think people realize all this already. They just feel the need to put positive spins on their team no matter how obvious it is that they have a serious lack of talent. Maybe they feel it's their duty as fans or just a way to make them feel better about having another losing season. Who knows.

It's a combination of factors, to single out any one for why a team wins or loses is stupid. That's why all these reasons excuses facts or bullshit never tells the whole story and for any of us to argue any one of these points as the reason is just wanting to argue.

But can we agree that all black unis would give us 16-0 year after year?

[R0CKnR0LLA]

You're right, it's a whole number of factors. Would zero injuries help? Sure. Easy schedule? Yup. 6 months worth of offseason to implement your new scheme? Of course. Every bounce of the ball and questionable call going your way? Absolutely.

But the overwhelming most important factor is having a top end front office that stacks your team with talent year in and year out. A roster overflowing with talent puts you in the hunt every year. This is the #1 factor in having continued success by a huge margin. This is something we obviously don't have yet so many people bring up all these other factors but can't admit to this.

[rico6]

Couldn't be that long until someone threw out "injuries" and "no full offseason" I guess. excuses excuses excuses

I really don't see why it's so hard for people just to admit that we're poorly managed resulting in a weak roster and we're losing because of it.

Or why we put these artificial pointless labels on seasons just as some kind of an excuse to why it's perfectly OK that we're terrible.

Last year we sucked but it's OK because it was a "tear down the roster" season.

This year we suck but it's OK because it's a "rebuilding" season.

Next year if we suck, it's OK because.. umm let me think.. oh I got it.. it's a "transition" season.

2013 still suck ass? well umm it's a "learning" season. But hey, we're still a good well run franchise everybody. Calm down!

Exactly.

Bad teams allow themselves to be held to lower standards because of injured players. The good teams.. well.. don't.

[rayzor]

But the overwhelming most important factor is having a top end front office that stacks your team with talent year in and year out. A roster overflowing with talent puts you in the hunt every year. This is the #1 factor in having continued success by a huge margin. This is something we obviously don't have yet so many people bring up all these other factors but can't admit to this.

we didn't have that talent.

we were headed in the wrong direction.

we are having to change course.

we are starting to build that team that will be stacked with talent.

we don't have it yet, but we are headed there.

i doubt many think we have that roster. most acknowledge that we are missing a few (to be nice) pieces.

sure stuff screwed up and it's going to take longer than we had hoped, but we are going to be getting there.

we pretty much have all the pieces we need on offense. just some help on the oline is all we need personnel-wise. other than that it's just time in the system and experience for the QB.

special teams suck for the most part, though i liked how they looked against the lions even if it was against a danny crossman special teams unit. still it needs work.

defense is just flat hurting but once beason and edwards get healthy, we'll have a lot of what as wrong fixed. we need more experience at DT and should have someone brought in. we need a new OLB to replace TD...even if we restructure him and keep him around for longer. we need a new FS and martin needs to be a backup. we need to see if hogan can live up to his potential so we can know if CB still needs to be addressed.

those are all things that can be addressed this offseason. considering the headway they made (by no means a finished product, mind you) esp. on offense this year in fixing what was by far the worst offense in the league i have faith that they will be able to do the same thing on defense.

[rayzor]

Exactly.

Bad teams allow themselves to be held to lower standards because of injured players. The good teams.. well.. don't.

who says we have a good team.

they are trying to build one. considering the shape the team was in and the amount of correcting that needed to take place, they are on the way to having that good team.

we have only won 2 games because we only deserved to win 2 games but at least they've had a chance in the games this year and were in a position to win them unlike last year.

[pstall]

i have said this since what July?

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Some of you guys have a lot more patience and faith than I do.

One question for all you "we're heading in the right direction, stick with the plan" guys. At what point does the rebuilding/injuries/refs/schedule/whatever stuff run out?

Let's say we add one impact player in this upcoming draft and no real noteable FAs and then proceed to win 4-7 games in 2012. That'd be 4 losing seasons in a row. Everyone still want to stick with our current management and shift blame around to other areas? Or would you guys finally be ready to demand better?

[panthers55]

Hurney and Rivera have made this a rebuilding year. The wins and losses were not the main goal but improving each season. They have said that in a ton of ways. For example, when Edwards went down they brought in nobody and said they were going with their rookie DTs. They didn't bring in any big name corners when we lost Marshall. They intended to play Newton and not bring in a big name quarterback.

Last year was going on the cheap and tanking the season for the lockout. This year was about rebuilding given that we had a new system on both sides of the ball, no offseason, and a ton of young and inexperienced guys. This year we worked to fix the offense. Next year most all the resources will go to fix the defense.

With all the money Richardson spent we could have gone out and bought a ton of free agents. But he remembers when he did that in the late 90s and it caused 2001 when the free agents failed, didn't live up to expectations, etc. But the goal was to build a team for the future not for the now. We as fans will have to suck it up and hope they are right. It isn't as if we have a choice and while bitching makes you feel better, it usually does nothing to actually make things better for anyone else including what or who you are bitching about.

[rayzor]

i consider this year to be the starting point.

this is the only year they get a pass, though.

they should have winning seasons from next year on. seeing the way the offense plays with newton who is a rookie who didn't have a full offseason and the whole team working in a new offense...once those things are taken away they should be spectacular. the only thing that can make this offense better is time.

the defense is another matter, but considering how they improved the offense after one year, they should be able to get the defense to a point that they at the very least aren't costing us wins like they have. you get beason and edwards back in there and give them a couple additions and a full offseason and they should be solid enough.

all we need is for the offense to be able to finish a game and the defense not to give it up. they should have everything they need heading into next year to make a winning season possible.

[panthers55]

Some of you guys have a lot more patience and faith than I do.

One question for all you "we're heading in the right direction, stick with the plan" guys. At what point does the rebuilding/injuries/refs/schedule/whatever stuff run out?

Let's say we add one impact player in this upcoming draft and no real noteable FAs and then proceed to win 4-7 games in 2012. That'd be 4 losing seasons in a row. Everyone still want to stick with our current management and shift blame around to other areas? Or would you guys finally be ready to demand better?

You assume you have any power here at all. Exactly how will you demand better. You aren't even a PSL owner, why would anyone listen to you or a thousand people like you. Some of us are not happy about things but realize when we would be acting like Don Quixote and do something more productive than bitching. Don't mean to be negative here about your intentions but you have no power here. Go ahead and buy a couple of suites for the season and then bitch. Maybe someone would listen to you, then.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

If the fanbase as a whole demands changes then changes will be made. JR has shown in the past he listens to fanbase but right now I don't expect anything major to happen as there's so many people still in the "eh we're rebuilding, let's wait and see" mode.

I'm legitimately asking if we have another weak offseason and losing year if that attitude will change or if the excuses and "just wait till next year" would remain.

[panthers55]

You're right, it's a whole number of factors. Would zero injuries help? Sure. Easy schedule? Yup. 6 months worth of offseason to implement your new scheme? Of course. Every bounce of the ball and questionable call going your way? Absolutely.

But the overwhelming most important factor is having a top end front office that stacks your team with talent year in and year out. A roster overflowing with talent puts you in the hunt every year. This is the #1 factor in having continued success by a huge margin. This is something we obviously don't have yet so many people bring up all these other factors but can't admit to this.

Every team has talent. Do any teams have overwhelming talent? WHo would that be?? New England? Their defense sucks. The Jets?? Their offense sucks. What about Indy?? Yeah we saw what happens with Manning out.

It is largely a myth that one team has great talent and another doesn't. Usually they have a great system and a franchise quarterback which equals wins.

Every year a coach comes in and takes a mediocre team and turns them into a winner. The Tuna was famous for doing that. It was the system not the talent. We have enough talent to win but we don't have enough talent to employ McDermott's system on defense, they are different. Some coaches adapt their system to the players, we are going to find the right players to run our system. Dean Smith did that in basketball with good results. It means we won't be good this year but we could be good in a year or two. Is it the right way to go? Time will tell. That is part of the system much like Pittsburgh for example. Find the system and plug in players instead of changing the system to fit the current players.