Should Tebow success get under Cam's skin

[mav1234]

Wow, The Golden Calf of Bristol hasn't had a completion % greater than 50 this entire season, has he?

no but he had a 44.4%, 50%, and a 55% last season, putting him at exactly 50% for the season. he threw 29 and 36 times and still struggled with completion percentage.

but really, completion percentage is NOT accuracy... though I think it's fair to say if you are below 50% completion percentage you are likely not being accurate with the ball, lol

[Decleater]

I don't think I've said anything about Cam's college career. Wrong person. I know you've talked about it but I don't give a poo about Cam's college career. I care about his time in the pros.

Most of us are more than willing to admit this team has a lot of good players on offense, but offense isn't losing us all the game we're losing... it's defense.

If Cam was really as good as he looks with the offense around him he should be able to win some of these games.. its that simple. The same exact thing happened with orton and the defense was blamed then too...

On the other hand, you seem to refuse to admit that The Golden Calf of Bristol may just not be a good passer right now. Perhaps he can develop into one but right now he isn't one.

Or The Golden Calf of Bristol is smart enoguh to know his limitations and strengths and Cma isn't..

The Golden Calf of Bristol has a very unique style of playing and numbers don't indicate how efficient it is.

If a defense defends one aspect of his game he will attack them with the other.. he is a master at this

Cma does not have this ability.. he isn' the dominant runner or passer The Golden Calf of Bristol is.. The Golden Calf of Bristol doesn't need to take unnecessary risks which is why he doesn't put up big hollow numbers like Cam and Orton..

The Broncos didn't rush the ball more with Orton because they thought his passing could win them games.

Running wins games.. Orton has never been considered a dominant passer.. neither was Cam... yet you are saying they should rely on their passing over a supposedly effective run game>?

They don't think that about The Golden Calf of Bristol (Hence Fox saying that The Golden Calf of Bristol would be screwed in a normal offense). They are protecting The Golden Calf of Bristol as much as anything because when he has to throw at all he is exposed.

He said that because the offense around The Golden Calf of Bristol and Orton stunk.. Orton had Brandon lloyd too... who was traded for long term benefits..

We have no idea if Cam could carry a team running the ball because we don't run anything close to the same offenses. The Golden Calf of Bristol's offense is built around power running, Cam's is a vertical passing attack. Very different systems.

And Cam has better power runners... and Cam was not known for his passing..

In this article the QB coach says having a slowdown offense prevents your Qb from getting in a rhythm..

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19375988

Now, I will say that The Golden Calf of Bristol refusing to take chances with the ball is helping to prevent turnovers which is helping them win games. The Golden Calf of Bristol buys into Fox's "a punt is not a bad play" mantra.

Exactly.. this is why we don't really understand The Golden Calf of Bristol's full capabilities passing the ball. When Fox has let The Golden Calf of Bristol play his style - a up tempo pass heavy offense he has been dominant at times.. much more impressive than Cam. The Golden Calf of Bristol has had clutch passes to win games... against excellent defenses.

[Decleater]

Fox changed the Broncos offense because he believes that the best way to win football games is with a power running attack. Perhaps McCoy believed that Orton could win with throwing the ball, I dunno why they threw so much early. Indeed, the Broncos put up more points with Orton under center. But with Orton's scores came his turnovers... and a brutal early schedule. I also don't think Orton's numbers tanked, he just had too many turnovers. But I don't know why we are discussing Orton here - Orton is NOT Cam Newton. Orton is a 7-year veteran running a very different system of offense.

The point is Orton put up monster numbers last season.. he was on pace to break Dan Marino's numbers.

Yet just like Cam the defense and run game was blamed..

This is perfect evidence of a prolific yet inefficient offense.

I think Steve Smith has made cma look much better than he is.. butCam;s inefficiency and inconsistency shows what is really going on..

And just like with Orton.. fi you put Cam in a slower offense like Orton was to start this season he would stink like Orton did..

In The Golden Calf of Bristol's case his numbers stink but when you look at his efficiency and lack of turnovers you see he is really dominating in his own weird way.He hasn't had to open thing up offensively.

[chef17]

If Cam was really as good as he looks with the offense around him he should be able to win some of these games.. its that simple. The same exact thing happened with orton and the defense was blamed then too...

Or The Golden Calf of Bristol is smart enoguh to know his limitations and strengths and Cma isn't..

The Golden Calf of Bristol has a very unique style of playing and numbers don't indicate how efficient it is.

If a defense defends one aspect of his game he will attack them with the other.. he is a master at this

Cma does not have this ability.. he isn' the dominant runner or passer The Golden Calf of Bristol is.. The Golden Calf of Bristol doesn't need to take unnecessary risks which is why he doesn't put up big hollow numbers like Cam and Orton..

Running wins games.. Orton has never been considered a dominant passer.. neither was Cam... yet you are saying they should rely on their passing over a supposedly effective run game>?

He said that because the offense around The Golden Calf of Bristol and Orton stunk.. Orton had Brandon lloyd too... who was traded for long term benefits..

And Cam has better power runners... and Cam was not known for his passing..

In this article the QB coach says having a slowdown offense prevents your Qb from getting in a rhythm..

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19375988

Exactly.. this is why we don't really understand The Golden Calf of Bristol's full capabilities passing the ball. When Fox has let The Golden Calf of Bristol play his style - a up tempo pass heavy offense he has been dominant at times.. much more impressive than Cam. The Golden Calf of Bristol has had clutch passes to win games... against excellent defenses.

If The Golden Calf of Bristol was a dominant passer he would complete more than 50% of his passes.

[mav1234]

If Cam was really as good as he looks with the offense around him he should be able to win some of these games.. its that simple. The same exact thing happened with orton and the defense was blamed then too...

that makes no sense. It's not that simple... He's a rookie, he's tieing games in the 4th quarter or going into them with leads and the defense is losing them. Frankly I haven't watched enough games from the Broncos to tell you who lost what. Very few truly great QBs win many games their rookie seasons, and when they do, it's usually in spite of them, not because of them.

Or The Golden Calf of Bristol is smart enoguh to know his limitations and strengths and Cma isn't..

The Golden Calf of Bristol is a 2nd year player... Decision making improves with experience.

The Golden Calf of Bristol has a very unique style of playing and numbers don't indicate how efficient it is.

If a defense defends one aspect of his game he will attack them with the other.. he is a master at this

well at some point soon I hope to see his mastery because I've seen some clutch plays from him but nothing close to mastery of an offense.

Cma does not have this ability.. he isn' the dominant runner or passer The Golden Calf of Bristol is.. The Golden Calf of Bristol doesn't need to take unnecessary risks which is why he doesn't put up big hollow numbers like Cam and Orton.

What criteria are you using to say The Golden Calf of Bristol is a dominant passer? By any metric other than "4th quarter wins" The Golden Calf of Bristol has not looked like a dominant passer at all.

Running wins games.. Orton has never been considered a dominant passer.. neither was Cam... yet you are saying they should rely on their passing over a supposedly effective run game>?

Cam was considered a dominant passer by our FO, that's why they drafted him. He's doing pretty well now. our FO believes passing wins games now. I have no idea if they are right. But Fox clearly disagrees.

In this article the QB coach says having a slowdown offense prevents your Qb from getting in a rhythm..

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19375988

What the hell is a "slow down offense"? He says that if you don't throw a lot, you don't get into a rhythm. if you throw 40 times in a game, hell, even 30 times, or even 20 times, you should be in a rhythm. This guy even says you should throw 20 times, clearly indicating he thinks that's what a QB should do. Sounds like a guy Foxy would like.

[AceMan]

The Golden Calf of Bristol is so much better than Cam, I'm still glad we got Cam though. Oh..btw, I still want us to draft Matt Barkley!!!

[Decleater]

If The Golden Calf of Bristol was a dominant passer he would complete more than 50% of his passes.

Why? Who says you can't win passing at a low completion percent but when it matters most?

And he has his running ability no other Qb has.. not even Cam..

You are comparing The Golden Calf of Bristol to other players and there has really never been a player like The Golden Calf of Bristol.

People say it all the time.. they don't understand how he wins.

In college they said he was just lucky to have a great team around him. The without him Florida stinks...

They said Cam was carrying Auburn and Auburn beat Florida a couple weeks ago even after losing their whole team because they were seniors.

[chef17]

Why? Who says you can't win passing at a low completion percent but when it matters most?

And he has his running ability no other Qb has.. not even Cam..

You are comparing The Golden Calf of Bristol to other players and there has really never been a player like The Golden Calf of Bristol.

People say it all the time.. they don't understand how he wins.

In college they said he was just lucky to have a great team around him. The without him Florida stinks...

They said Cam was carrying Auburn and Auburn beat Florida a couple weeks ago even after losing their whole team because they were seniors.

I never said anything about winning. But if you can't complete half your passes you are not a dominant passes. It's that simple

[mav1234]

The point is Orton put up monster numbers last season.. he was on pace to break Dan Marino's numbers.

Yet just like Cam the defense and run game was blamed..

This is perfect evidence of a prolific yet inefficient offense.

I think Steve Smith has made cma look much better than he is.. butCam;s inefficiency and inconsistency shows what is really going on..

And just like with Orton.. fi you put Cam in a slower offense like Orton was to start this season he would stink like Orton did..

In The Golden Calf of Bristol's case his numbers stink but when you look at his efficiency and lack of turnovers you see he is really dominating in his own weird way.He hasn't had to open thing up offensively.

Orton stunk in terms of turnovers, not in terms of TDs (the Broncos scored more points with him under center), not completion percentage, not yards. Last year I didn't pay attention to the Broncos but I would have assumed that a league-worst defense would have cost them more games.

Also, Orton was not putting up Marino like numbers. Stop saying that. He finished the season outside the top 10 in yards, in the bottom half of the league in touchdowns scored, and like 22nd in completion percentage. Those are not Marino-like numbers. The top QBs threw more than 1000 yards more than him, had more than 10 more TDs than him...

The Golden Calf of Bristol isn't dominating, The Golden Calf of Bristol is game managing. He is very good at it right now and I applaud him, but what he is doing is dominating one drive a game, which is sometimes enough to win.

[mav1234]

You focus too much on college. It's irrelevant. The Golden Calf of Bristol is winning games as a pro, but also struggling while passing. Can he improve? Some think yes, others think no. College really doesn't help much there, plenty of great college QBs fail.

[Decleater]

that makes no sense. It's not that simple... He's a rookie, he's tieing games in the 4th quarter or going into them with leads and the defense is losing them. Frankly I haven't watched enough games from the Broncos to tell you who lost what. Very few truly great QBs win many games their rookie seasons, and when they do, it's usually in spite of them, not because of them.

See.. I have watched all The Golden Calf of Bristol's games since he started college and all Cam's games at Florida and since he started at Auburn.

This is why i feel confident in what I am saying.

I would ay Orton was considered a better QB than both The Golden Calf of Bristol and Cam.. yet The Golden Calf of Bristol is winning where Orton couldn't. And Cam and The Golden Calf of Bristol have teams considered just as bad...

The Broncos had the second worst defense last season.

The Golden Calf of Bristol is a 2nd year player... Decision making improves with experience.

Yes.. like four years in the SEC which Cam didn't have...

well at some point soon I hope to see his mastery because I've seen some clutch plays from him but nothing close to mastery of an offense.

If you looks closely you can see flashes of it when The Golden Calf of Bristol is allowed to play his game. In those times you can see how The Golden Calf of Bristol understand how to run an offense and how to win.. Cam does not have this. His passing completions are high because of Steve Smith.. but when it matters most he can';t get it done. The Golden Calf of Bristol has shown the opposite..And his dominant running allows him to not have to take the risks Cam does..

What criteria are you using to say The Golden Calf of Bristol is a dominant passer? By any metric other than "4th quarter wins" The Golden Calf of Bristol has not looked like a dominant passer at all.

TD versus INT ratio. Cam's stinks. It doesn't get more obvious than that..

Cam was considered a dominant passer by our FO, that's why they drafted him. He's doing pretty well now. our FO believes passing wins games now. I have no idea if they are right. But Fox clearly disagrees.

Saying passing wins over running is counter to all of football history.. The Golden Calf of Bristol is making worse runners look better than Cam;s better runners..

How can the Brocnos run so mcuh if The Golden Calf of Bristol can't pass?

This may be what is really going on... teams are trying to stop Cam running which opens his passing at times..

Teams are trying to stop The Golden Calf of Bristol's superior passing which opens his running.. and The Golden Calf of Bristol is more capable of taking advantage of the open running lanes because of his dominance running the ball.

What the hell is a "slow down offense"? He says that if you don't throw a lot, you don't get into a rhythm. if you throw 40 times in a game, hell, even 30 times, or even 20 times, you should be in a rhythm. This guy even says you should throw 20 times, clearly indicating he thinks that's what a QB should do. Sounds like a guy Foxy would like.

I am not saying what should or shouldn't be done in regard to how many times the ball is thrown,..

What i am saying is that if you don't throw the ball much it is going to make you LOOK worse..

Conversely if you throw the ball a lot it is going to make you look better as a passer because you are in a better rhythm.. but where you see the reality is in efficiency and wins..

It's like an uptempo jumpshooting team in basketball.. lots of points.. good FG% but at key times if the jumpers aren't falling you lose to the low post team..

I thin if Cam played in a slow down offense like The Golden Calf of Bristol he would be exposed and look far worse than The Golden Calf of Bristol. it would probably crush his psyche and confidence too.. because he wouldn't have numbers or wins..

[Decleater]

You focus too much on college. It's irrelevant. The Golden Calf of Bristol is winning games as a pro, but also struggling while passing. Can he improve? Some think yes, others think no. College really doesn't help much there, plenty of great college QBs fail.

I disagree.. they have shown that Qbs that stay for 4 years in college tend to be more successful.

cam had one fluke season..

he di get to fix his mechanics more while on the bench and in junior college than The Golden Calf of Bristol who was busy dominating.

There are many times when college doesn't mean anything.. but that isn't always the case..

In The Golden Calf of Bristol it is though. He was underrated coming out of college not overrated..

[rayzor]

great. so what we have here is another anti-cam troll that guys keep on arguing with.

you guys kill me.

[PaulSoleil]

First off their isnt any facts to support this, but if I was Cam it would bother me. The Golden Calf of Bristol has been putting up horrible stats and yet keeps winning somehow.(well he has had onside kicks and defense scores to help him). Meanwhile Cam has been playing better then any rookie qb ever and not getting the wins. He says many times he doesnt care about stats just wins. Cam couldnt get the starting job from The Golden Calf of Bristol in Fl and now he is still in the shadow with the media.

Well I doubt this affects Cam becuase he is the professional and im just a rabid fan. It still bothers me that The Golden Calf of Bristol won agaisnt the jets with a 9-20 completions! Plus he won a couple weeks ago completing 2 passes. I hate to say it but its the team letting Cam down, Hopefully next year the other phases of the team will play at Cam's level. wewe

cam's got it as good as he'll ever get right now. he's got 3 pro bowl targets in smith, shockey and olsen and 2 good RBs. if he can't win with these weapons, he'll never win. imagine if he had what dalton has to work with??

speaking of The Golden Calf of Bristol, he's got nothing over in denver. if The Golden Calf of Bristol had smith/shocky/olsen/williams/stewart, i guarantee his record would be better. same for dalton.

he has a team built around him and he still loses, but still likes to point to his number one on his chest. he has what? 11 tds and 14 ints?

and his numbers have not been good after the first few weeks (DCs didn't think he could throw so didn't plan for him in the beginning of the season)

it's only gonna get worse, because the panthers tried to bulk up on talent and will be over the cap next year so will have to let go of some people. cam's got a HUGE safety net in targets and rbs that dalton, ponder, and The Golden Calf of Bristol don't have. he won't have it next year.

he keeps smiling and pointing to that number one on his chest though. sure seems like he cares about his 2-7 record.....