Should Tebow success get under Cam's skin

[CatMan72]

The Golden Calf of Bristol has beat the Dolphins, Jets and Chiefs... all 3 of whom are struggling badly on offense. The Jets were struggling so badly that the only TD they scored came from an o-lineman falling on a fumble in the end zone. The teams have all failed to score points against the Broncos and allowed them to hang around long enough for The Golden Calf of Bristol to stage a game winning drive. I give credit to him for pulling it off, but in reality if the Broncos are playing a good team that's capable of scoring on a consistent basis, they would be so buried by the 4th quarter that The Golden Calf of Bristol's heroics wouldn't matter.

[Decleater]

They had a 100 yard rusher in every game Orton started but vs Oakland and Tennessee... It helps when you go from just under 24 carries per game (first five games) to just under 38 (last 5 games)...

So why didn't they just run the ball more when Orton was QB?

...no they aren't. what the fug, you have no clue dude, Cam's best throws are his deep balls. Do you watch our games? No, obviously :)

I do.. Steve smith is WIDE OPEN.. and his line is protecting him like a glass statue.. ANYONE could hit those under those circumstances.. This is an example of Cam being carried by his offense but not being able to put teams away.

You also seem to think our run game has been "killed," which is funny since our backs are averaging the same YPA as Denver's, the difference is that due to less attempts, our run game has less yards. our run game is not hurting because of "dink and dunk" offense, it's hurting because we aren't using it at all.

But why aren't you using it?

If the Panthers D is so bad then why did they even draft a QB?

[CatMan72]

So why didn't they just run the ball more when Orton was QB?

I do.. Steve smith is WIDE OPEN.. and his line is protecting him like a glass statue.. ANYONE could hit those under those circumstances.. This is an example of Cam being carried by his offense but not being able to put teams away.

But why aren't you using it?

If the Panthers D is so bad then why did they even draft a QB?

You just proved you haven't been watching our games.

Oh and you mean anyone but The Golden Calf of Bristol who has consistently sailed balls over the head of receivers who were WIDE OPEN.

You don't really want to compare The Golden Calf of Bristol and Cam as passers, do you?

[TrueDat]

You just proved you haven't been watching our games.

I can guarantee you the dude can see what's going on better than 90% of you here. He's watching and understand how the game works. You don't. And you have a problem with people that actually do get it.

[mav1234]

You'd have to ask Fox why they had so many fewer run attempts. I think it has to do with the fact he trusted Orton to win with his arm, and when Orton couldn't win with his arm, he turned to The Golden Calf of Bristol... who could keep drives alive with his legs if not his arm. and since they didn't trust him to throw as much, this lead to even more rushing attempts. It's pretty clear if you look at the run/pass selection breakdown how much they are avoiding having The Golden Calf of Bristol throw that much now (10 less pass attempts per game). The Golden Calf of Bristol also is better at protecting the ball than Orton, but this is irrelevant to the Panthers entirely.

Back to the Panthers...

They drafted a QB because QB is the most important position on the field and we needed a QB. They also didn't forsee that our top FA acquisition on defense and two of our 3 starting linebackers would go down with an injury.

We are not using our run game as much according to our coaching staff because they believe the best way to develop a QB is by forcing them to throw a ton of times early in their career, basically.

Smith is very often NOT wide open, the balls are typically thrown in a place only Smitty can make the play on them. Cam is being helped by our offense, but if you think our wide receivers could carry any team, go look at how we did last year, and that was WITH arguably our best deep threat uninjured. Even the most ardent Cam "haters" on this board will concede that he has looked much much better as QB than they expected.

I can guarantee you the dude can see what's going on better than 90% of you here. He's watching and understand how the game works. You don't. And you have a problem with people that actually do get it.

seriously read what this guy is saying. He may have said "And Cam can't finish games" which you agree with, but even you have to admit that we are not running a "dink and dunk" offense.

[Decleater]

The Golden Calf of Bristol has beat the Dolphins, Jets and Chiefs... all 3 of whom are struggling badly on offense. The Jets were struggling so badly that the only TD they scored came from an o-lineman falling on a fumble in the end zone. The teams have all failed to score points against the Broncos and allowed them to hang around long enough for The Golden Calf of Bristol to stage a game winning drive. I give credit to him for pulling it off, but in reality if the Broncos are playing a good team that's capable of scoring on a consistent basis, they would be so buried by the 4th quarter that The Golden Calf of Bristol's heroics wouldn't matter.

It's The Golden Calf of Bristol's ability to initiate that dominant run game.. using poor runners I might add.. that allows the Broncos to play that slow down game though.. and dominate when they choose to open the offense up.

Also.. people keep assuming The Golden Calf of Bristol can't score because he hasn't had to score. We have seen in the past when Fox opens the offense The Golden Calf of Bristol can score very fast. Fox just isn't letting The Golden Calf of Bristol do that.. he isn't taking that risk most the game. This makes it all th more impressive when they do open it though and The Golden Calf of Bristol dominates.

Cam would not be able to do this.. and if The Golden Calf of Bristol was in cam;s offense he would be putting up big numbers like cam.. fewer turnovers and many more wins..

look at The Golden Calf of Bristol numbers his sophomore year when he was playing with a good offense.. he can pass at a high rate. Other years the offense was depleted and the defense had the talent and he still carried the offense..

[mav1234]

this is The Golden Calf of Bristol's sophmore year...

oh, you mean college

hahahahahahaha.

[Decleater]

You'd have to ask Fox why they had so many fewer run attempts. I think it has to do with the fact he trusted Orton to win with his arm, and when Orton couldn't win with his arm, he turned to The Golden Calf of Bristol... who could keep drives alive with his legs if not his arm. and since they didn't trust him to throw as much, this lead to even more rushing attempts. It's pretty clear if you look at the run/pass selection breakdown how much they are avoiding having The Golden Calf of Bristol throw that much now (10 less pass attempts per game). The Golden Calf of Bristol also is better at protecting the ball than Orton, but this is irrelevant to the Panthers entirely

The point is that if The Golden Calf of Bristol was made starter especially losing Lloyd right at the switch, he would struggle as much as Orton.. so would ANY QB.. but The Golden Calf of Bristol had an ability most QBs don't.. INCLUDING Cam.. The Golden Calf of Bristol can dominate running the ball. This takes defensive pressure off his weak runners and makes them much more effective and dominant... like Vince Young with Chris Johnson. And this ability to make a dominant run game fit in perfectly to what Fox wanted to do on defense.. making the defense look much much better than it looked before. At the expense of the passing game..

We are not using our run game as much according to our coaching staff because they believe the best way to develop a QB is by forcing them to throw a ton of times early in their career, basically.

You are making my case for me.. this ties in perfectly to what I have been saying.. The Golden Calf of Bristol can WIN without having to do that and without putting up those turnovers that come with it..that is the entire thing right there..

Smith is very often NOT wide open, the balls are typically thrown in a place only Smitty can make the play on them. Cam is being helped by our offense, but if you think our wide receivers could carry any team, go look at how we did last year, and that was WITH arguably our best deep threat uninjured.

YES.. WITH Fox coaching.. he is the one that made that offense look so bad.. just like he is making The Golden Calf of Bristol look bad.. only The Golden Calf of Bristol is winning in spite of him. Fox making that offense look so bad is why Cam is being so overrated now.. I will say that Smith is inspired to play with Cam.. but that is hype induced as well..

Even the most ardent Cam "haters" on this board will concede that he has looked much much better as QB than they expected.

Looks are deceiving though.. that's the whole point.. people thought Orton far and away gave the Broncos the best chance to win because he put up pretty hollow numbers and LOOKED like a pocket passer... Yet The Golden Calf of Bristol is blowing him away. Most guys in the NFL are like Cam.. dink and dunkers putting up inefficient numbers.. even Cam;s running numbers are deceptive..

seriously read what this guy is saying. He may have said "And Cam can't finish games" which you agree with, but even you have to admit that we are not running a "dink and dunk" offense.

I didn't say you were running a dink and dunk offense.. I am saying Cam is a dink and dunker in your offense.. he is being elevated by a great offense. Bad lockout Ds too..

I think the numbers are generated by the offense and players but they are fool' gold..

[Decleater]

this is The Golden Calf of Bristol's sophmore year...

oh, you mean college

hahahahahahaha.

Pretty comical considering Cam came from JUNIOR college.. lol

[TrueDat]

You'd have to ask Fox why they had so many fewer run attempts. I think it has to do with the fact he trusted Orton to win with his arm, and when Orton couldn't win with his arm, he turned to The Golden Calf of Bristol... who could keep drives alive with his legs if not his arm. It's pretty clear if you look at the run/pass selection breakdown how much they are avoiding having The Golden Calf of Bristol throw that much now.

Back to the Panthers...

They drafted a QB because QB is the most important position on the field and we needed a QB. They also didn't forsee that our top FA acquisition on defense and two of our 3 starting linebackers would go down with an injury.

We are not using our run game as much according to our coaching staff because they believe the best way to develop a QB is by forcing them to throw a ton of times early in their career, basically.

Smith is very often NOT wide open, the balls are typically thrown in a place only Smitty can make the play on them. Cam is being helped by our offense, but if you think our wide receivers could carry any team, go look at how we did last year, and that was WITH arguably our best deep threat uninjured. Even the most ardent Cam "haters" on this board will concede that he has looked much much better as QB than they expected.

So let me get this right. You understand that part...by your own admission that the QB is the most important position.

But you don't understand why when the most important position looks like this:

-22nd in the league in interceptions

-22nd in the league in QB rating

-20th in the league in passing percentage

-23rd in the league in sacks

-45% red-zone TD scoring percentage

-has a 68.0 QB rating( a failing fuging grade) in game winning or comeback winning drives in those exact situations

-we have had to win 6 of our 7 games in that fashion

-he's succeeded in 1 out of 14 of those attempts(7%)

-on top of that throws for a lot of yards and gets a lot less points than he should which results in the 25th most inefficient offense in the league

we lose ?

That's an overall failing fuging grade at QB in the NFL and the only good thing he's ranked in is yards. You will lose as a team when your QB looks like that and you are a passing team who passes the ball more than it runs. And yes it's not a surprising thing that the only freaking thing he's ranked high in is also the statistic where we happen to have an elite player affecting it: yards per catch. Who has done the same poo with any QB throwing him the ball.

And lots of yards, hurts you when you also don't put up the points to match. It doesn't help at all. It makes you bad offense. Getting a lot of yards without the matching points makes you an inefficient offense. That's why teams like Philadelphia and Dallas don't have great records. They too pass the ball a lot but have inefficient teams or quarterbacks. Their QB's just happen to be a bit better than ours so they are not total losers. But teams with very inefficient offenses are losers. Regardless of their defense. Makes no damn difference. They are losers if their offenses are at the bottom of the league in inefficiency.

They are god damn losing teams and the reason why we have an inefficient offense is exactly what you just said: we have an inefficient, rookie QB, at the most important position in football which is primarily responsible for making us an inefficient offense. His stats show exactly that. He sucks overall at the QB position.

But you only look at the "good" stats. There's like 20+ other categories he's failing in that are equally as important if not more important.

[BBQ&Beer]

I can guarantee you the dude can see what's going on better than 90% of you here. He's watching and understand how the game works. You don't. And you have a problem with people that actually do get it.

Another alt. Why?

[tiger7_88]

Here Cam is mimicking all The Golden Calf of Bristol's mannerisms..

Please, do tell all these The Golden Calf of Bristol "mannerisms" that Cam so dedicatedly mimics.

I knew how good that Auburn team was because I saw them play Alabama

DING! Mystery solved!

[mav1234]

what's that matter? don't think anybody is saying "Man look at Cam's junior college stats he's gonna be AWESOME!" You're saying "The Golden Calf of Bristol can pass, honest, look at what he did in college" and I don't care. I want to see him do it in the NFL, because all we've seen has been... quite bad. Now, he's getting wins, and I hope he can sustain it, I just don't know if he can.

Cam's not running like The Golden Calf of Bristol is because our offense is meant to be pass-first at it's very core. It is completely different than anything Fox has tried to do with Orton or with The Golden Calf of Bristol. Yet when Cam DOES run, he is explosive and game changing.

Whether Cam and this offense are fools gold or not, it is far too early to tell in Cam's career. He has certainly looked good for a rookie, but obviously rookie stats aren't the only thing that matters...

The point is saying "Cam is a dink and dunker because of his time in college" is silly. He's playing in a vertical offense now and completing passes all over the field. This great supporting cast he has now was in large part in tact last year and was absolutely miserable. Yes, the tight ends were huge pick ups, but he has gotten his players to believe in him, which is huge and something his predecessor failed to do.

edit: FWIW Decleater, I do think that Elway tried to sabotage the season by trading Lloyd and starting The Golden Calf of Bristol, but he's played fine. At the same time, I don't know if I actually blame Fox for The Golden Calf of Bristol's ineptitude at times. I dunno how accurate it is but you could check this article out for a bit on that: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Does-ESPNs-Bayless-know-what-hes-talking-about.html

[TrueDat]

Another alt. Why?

That's not me man. You guys are "so observant" you can't tell the difference between two posters. In case you haven't notice that poor guy sounds more like me when I first game here. He has a lot more patience and is "trying" to be logical and is still under the impression he's going to be able to convince you guys by using good, common sense, and logic. It's what I tried to do at first before the personal attacks started on a daily basis every time I tried saying something that made sense but went against the grain or the majority "perception".

Cause that's all it fuging is. A false perception. And he hasn't figured out yet it's fuging impossible to punch through that. Cursing and being a dick seems to get you a better response around here.