Football Outsiders updated Panthers statistics

[PantherProwler]

Still not convinced?

One of my favorite measurs of team efficiency is yards per point margin. It has two components: "offensive" yards per point and "defensive" yards per point. I put those terms in quotes because they involve in offensive and defensive stats, but they don't only pertain to what the offense and defense does.

Offensive yards per point is total offensive yards divided by total points scored. The lower that number, the less offensive effort your team has to exert to get points (generally). If your defense or special teams score, that ratio goes down. If your defense returns turnovers or special teams return kicks and punts long distances, that ratio goes down. That's why it's about more than just offense.

Defensive yards per point is total defense divided by total points allowed. The higher that number, the harder your team made it opposing teams to score. A terrible offense and bad special teams can impact this one, which is why it's more than about just defense.

If you subtract the offensive number from the defensive number, you get yards per point margin. The higher the number, the more efficient you were as a team. Here are where the SEC teams ended up in YPPM, how it compares to a rough projected record (by pairing YPPM rank with all of this year's won-loss records nationally), and I threw in their luck as determined by Pythagorean expectation.

[Jangler]

[klumme]

[PantherProwler]

How about Sports Illustrated from CNN.com Do they have any credibility?

We track each NFL team in two key measures of efficiency. We call them Scoreability (offensive efficiency) and Bendability (defensive efficiency), which quantifies the bend-but-don't-break phenomenon. These are two of our Quality Stats, indicators that have a direct correlation to winning football game

A Record Pace Of Scoring Efficiency

We measure each team's Scoreabilty through Yards Per Point Scored -- how many yards you need to score the equivalent of a single point. The lower the number, the better.

No team has scored more efficiently than the 49ers. San Francisco has produced a meager 1,815 yards of offense. But it has still managed to hang 167 points on the scoreboard. That's an incredible 10.87 Yards Per Point Scored. In other words, the 49ers are good for about one point with each first down.

Not only is that performance No. 1 here in 2011, it's on pace to set the record for scoring efficiency held by the 2007 Patriots. That 16-0 New England team needed just 11.17 Yards Per Point Scored.

The 2011 Patriots, meanwhile, help put in perspective the incredible efficiency of Harbaugh's crew. Bill Belichick's team has generated 2,847 yards of offense this year -- 1,032 more yards than the 49ers in just six games. But the Patriots have scored just 18 points more.

The highly prolific Patriots are wasting a lot of yards, leaving a lot of points on the field and failing to generate points from units other than the offense -- especially when compared with the 49ers.

The importance of efficiency is far more dramatic if we put Scoreability in the context of touchdowns.

Football's Best "Bend But Don't Break" Defense

The same benefit of efficiency applies to defense, where San Francisco is No. 1 in Bendability. They force opponents to march a spirit-killing 20.76 Yards Per Point Allowed.

In the context of touchdowns, San Francisco's opponents need 145.3 yards of offense to put 7 points on the board. They have the best "bend-but-don't-break" defense in football. Opponents may generate a lot of yards, but they do very little with all that effort.

Now compare San Francisco's very bendable defense to the peanut-butter-brittle unit fielded by the winless Colts. Indy opponents need just 90.6 yards of offense to score the equivalent of a touchdown.

In other words, statistically speaking, almost every drive against the Colts results in a touchdown. In the case of the 62-7 loss to New Orleans on Sunday, this statistical phenomenon was on-field reality: the Saints scored on every drive but their last one.

It was a virtuoso performance of efficiency: New Orleans needed just 8.98 Yards Per Point Scored. But even then, it was only slightly more efficient than San Francisco's performance all year along (10.17 Yards Per Point Scored).

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/10/26/49ers.coaching/index.html#ixzz1e0nVgzdH

And you back out like a little bitch after you got proven wrong mav just like the rest of them.

Can't even admit it.

[Jangler]

I haven't negged you or any of your alts one time...

:lol: feel the bite.

[Montsta]

How about Sports Illustrated from CNN.com Do they have any credibility?

And you back out like a little bitch after you got proven wrong mav just like the rest of them.

Can't even admit it.

For the life of me, I can't figure out what it is about you that rubs so many people the wrong way?

[mav1234]

And you back out like a little bitch after you got proven wrong mav just like the rest of them.

Can't even admit it.

haha dude, you just keep proving how wrong you are... I don't even know what your problem is, but from each of your posts to the next one, here are multiple parts of your quotes showing you are wrong. Since you are just trolling me now, and really it's sad that you are resorting to this but whatever, that's fine. When you can find an actual game example of YPP that agrees with your bizarro world system, feel free to come back.

The stat is very easy to compute. Simply take a teams offensive yards gained and divide by points scored.

I put those terms in quotes because they involve in offensive and defensive stats, but they don't only pertain to what the offense and defense does.

Offensive yards per point is total offensive yards divided by total points scored.

San Francisco has produced a meager 1,815 yards of offense. But it has still managed to hang 167 points on the scoreboard. That's an incredible 10.87 Yards Per Point Scored

(Since you may have reading comprehension issues, that means that 1815/167 = 10.87. It's too bad the author forgets that a decent chunk of those 167 points were directly generated by special teams, yet none of those 1815 come from special teams. Sokay, he does admit that the 49ers are a team effort)

As to why I didn't respond to you, I was just giving you more rope to hang yourself with. It's more fun this way. Keep on going, find more quotes and links that prove you know nothing about YPP.

Go ahead, break the Titans' game against us down for me. Show me where special teams yards matters. Go ahead. Try.

[PantherProwler]

haha dude, you just keep proving how wrong you are... I don't even know what your problem is, but from each of your posts to the next one, here are multiple parts of your quotes showing you are wrong. Since you are just trolling me now, and really it's sad that you are resorting to this but whatever, that's fine. When you can find an actual game example of YPP that agrees with your bizarro world system, feel free to come back.

(Since you may have reading comprehension issues, that means that 1815/167 = 10.87. It's too bad the author forgets that a decent chunk of those 167 points were directly generated by special teams, yet none of those 1815 come from special teams. Sokay, he does admit that the 49ers are a team effort)

As to why I didn't respond to you, I was just giving you more rope to hang yourself with. It's more fun this way. Keep on going, find more quotes and links that prove you know nothing about YPP.

Go ahead, break the Titans' game against us down for me. Show me where special teams yards matters. Go ahead. Try.

What the hell are you talking about man. Are you that poor a loser? That's exactly what I have been telling you all day.

total offense / total scoring offense = total offense efficiency.

That's all that says. Which part is it you keep saying I'm wrong about when that's exactly what I have been saying for 3 days?

You're the one that doesn't understand everyone of those articles is also saying that makes up our total offense efficiency. You have an issue with the fact that special teams offense scoring points is in fact a part of our team's total offense. It's like you can't grasp the fact that a punt returner scoring points is an offensive player. That ain't my problem having comprehension issues. It's yours.

And you have an issue with the fact that it clearly states it takes into consideration a defense's turnovers. I have been waiting too. For you to figure out a pick 6 is a turnover. And yes that's part of our scoring offense.

So what exactly do you seem to think I am wrong about?

Why the hell should I break anything down for you when I have showed you 5 articles that clearly said yards per point is a measurement of our total offense's efficiency from advanced football stats, sports illustrated, papers from the 1970's and a million other places and you still argue against it?

This is the part that you keep missing:

A Record Pace Of Scoring Efficiency

We measure each team's Scoreabilty through Yards Per Point Scored -- how many yards you need to score the equivalent of a single point. The lower the number, the better.

The idea is that an offense is efficient if their ypp is low, meaning they're turning yards gained into points scored.

Does that not say yards per point measure a teams total offense scoring efficiency? Does that not also say any part of a team that scores points is part of a team's total offense? Doesn't it also make fuging sense that anyone that scores for our team is part of our team's TOTAL SCORING OFFENSE?

[teeray]

I was eating dinner so that is why I didn't respond. You were selective with quotes you provided links for. But let's look at some of your quotes

In order to relate points scored and allowed to wins and losses, data for all teams from 1970 through 1980 was accumulated. The technique used, regression analysis, is a way to determine the relationship between one or more independent variables (such as points for or points against) and a dependent variable (wins).

For example, if one wanted to assign a value to points scored and another to points allowed in order to predict wins over .500 for two teams, this would be a situation with two equations and two unknowns, and the answer could be found exactly.

Also says:

One very important thing to remember with regression is that variables used are often not really independent, and that incorrect conclusions can be reached from the results. In football, points scored and allowed are really not independent because of the interaction between offense and defense. Also, mathematical correlation does not necessarily mean a cause-and-effect relationship.

Plus this article isn't even talking about YPP is it??

And:

There's a great college football preview magazine out there by Phil Steele... most accurate predictions in the country over the last five years or so. It's full of more information than anyone but the most diehard fan could ever want, and one of Phil's statistics is Yards Per Point (ypp).

The idea is that an offense is EFFICIENT if their ypp is low, meaning they're turning yards gained into points scored. Likewise, a good defense doesn't let you turn yards into TDs, so a good defense will have a high ypp. Winning the field position battle also creates a favorable ypp statistic.

http://leftfieldbluff.blogspot.com/2...per-point.html

Is a random blogspot post that has a tag line of: "Because Chris Simms still started the 2001 Big 12 Championship Game, and you can't do anything about it." So obviously a fan blog so take that with a grain of salt.

No link on this one:

Yards Per Point is probably the single most powerful stat in handicapping college and NFL football. It's a stat that at a glance, can tell you a whole lot about any given team. It's a stat that should be used by professional sports bettors and recreational sportsbettors alike.

What makes this stat attractive to the recreational sports handicapper is that it allows a guy or gal who works a full week, and has a life outside of sports, to make educated selections on football games with only a minimal amount of work.

The stat is very easy to compute. Simply take a teams offensive yards gained and divide by points scored. On defense, take the yards given up and divide by points given up. Many publications, tip sheets, etc, do the work for you. Power Sweep is one such publication.

So now you have two numbers for each team. An offensive number and a defensive number. The lower the offensive number, the better the offense. The higher the defensive number, the better the defense.

You can now take these numbers and use them as a power rating.

This is describing how you can use YPP to predict a score for handicapping. Not about offensive efficiency.

CNNSI:

We track each NFL team in two key measures of efficiency. We call them Scoreability (offensive efficiency) and Bendability (defensive efficiency), which quantifies the bend-but-don't-break phenomenon. These are two of our Quality Stats, indicators that have a direct correlation to winning football game

A Record Pace Of Scoring Efficiency

We measure each team's Scoreabilty through Yards Per Point Scored -- how many yards you need to score the equivalent of a single point. The lower the number, the better.

No team has scored more efficiently than the 49ers. San Francisco has produced a meager 1,815 yards of offense. But it has still managed to hang 167 points on the scoreboard. That's an incredible 10.87 Yards Per Point Scored. In other words, the 49ers are good for about one point with each first down.

Not only is that performance No. 1 here in 2011, it's on pace to set the record for scoring efficiency held by the 2007 Patriots. That 16-0 New England team needed just 11.17 Yards Per Point Scored.

The 2011 Patriots, meanwhile, help put in perspective the incredible efficiency of Harbaugh's crew. Bill Belichick's team has generated 2,847 yards of offense this year -- 1,032 more yards than the 49ers in just six games. But the Patriots have scored just 18 points more.

The highly prolific Patriots are wasting a lot of yards, leaving a lot of points on the field and failing to generate points from units other than the offense -- especially when compared with the 49ers.

The importance of efficiency is far more dramatic if we put Scoreability in the context of touchdowns.

Football's Best "Bend But Don't Break" Defense

The same benefit of efficiency applies to defense, where San Francisco is No. 1 in Bendability. They force opponents to march a spirit-killing 20.76 Yards Per Point Allowed.

In the context of touchdowns, San Francisco's opponents need 145.3 yards of offense to put 7 points on the board. They have the best "bend-but-don't-break" defense in football. Opponents may generate a lot of yards, but they do very little with all that effort.

Now compare San Francisco's very bendable defense to the peanut-butter-brittle unit fielded by the winless Colts. Indy opponents need just 90.6 yards of offense to score the equivalent of a touchdown.

In other words, statistically speaking, almost every drive against the Colts results in a touchdown. In the case of the 62-7 loss to New Orleans on Sunday, this statistical phenomenon was on-field reality: the Saints scored on every drive but their last one.

It was a virtuoso performance of efficiency: New Orleans needed just 8.98 Yards Per Point Scored. But even then, it was only slightly more efficient than San Francisco's performance all year along (10.17 Yards Per Point Scored).

You nearly quoted this whole article except you deleted one important sentence :confused:

(Note: Scoreability counts ALL points, not just those generated by the offense. The scoreboard does not care how those points get there, only that they do. Well-coached teams score points as many ways as possible. Scoreabilty rewards teams for proficiency in all phases of the game; Bendability applies the same rules to defense.)

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/10/26/49ers.coaching/index.html#ixzz1e0zfouZX

[teeray]

And last but not least you used this as an example. I will highlight the important part :lol::

One of my favorite measures of team efficiency is yards per point margin. It has two components: "offensive" yards per point and "defensive" yards per point. I put those terms in quotes because they involve in offensive and defensive stats, but they don't only pertain to what the offense and defense does.

Offensive yards per point is total offensive yards divided by total points scored. The lower that number, the less offensive effort your team has to exert to get points (generally). If your defense or special teams score, that ratio goes down. If your defense returns turnovers or special teams return kicks and punts long distances, that ratio goes down. That's why it's about more than just offense.

Defensive yards per point is total defense divided by total points allowed. The higher that number, the harder your team made it opposing teams to score. A terrible offense and bad special teams can impact this one, which is why it's more than about just defense.

If you subtract the offensive number from the defensive number, you get yards per point margin. The higher the number, the more efficient you were as a team. Here are where the SEC teams ended up in YPPM, how it compares to a rough projected record (by pairing YPPM rank with all of this year's won-loss records nationally), and I threw in their luck as determined by Pythagorean expectation.

Plus it is written by esteemed statistician and journalist, Year2. :yesnod:

[Jangler]

[PantherProwler]

I was eating dinner so that is why I didn't respond. You were selective with quotes you provided links for. But let's look at some of your quotes

Also says:

And:

Is a random blogspot post that has a tag line of: "Because Chris Simms still started the 2001 Big 12 Championship Game, and you can't do anything about it." So obviously a fan blog so take that with a grain of salt.

No link on this one:

This is describing how you can use YPP to predict a score for handicapping. Not about offensive efficiency.

CNNSI:

You nearly quoted this whole article except you deleted one important sentence :confused:

No poo! It's called TOTAL. SCORING. OFFENSE and also called TOTAL .OFFENSE. EFFICIENCY.

The yards are accounted, not counted, accounted. That's what makes it efficient. A punt return for a touchdown. Scoring instead of turning over the ball, whether on downs, or fumbles or interceptions. That's Carolina Panthers' TRUE TOTAL OFFENSE! 25th.

It also says its the most important stat does it not that reflect to winning? It's also the stat sports illustrated uses to rank teams and compare them, is it not? So why the hell are you using the most useless stats in the world?

PS: I mainly highlighted the parts that defined ypp as total offensive scoring efficiency because that's what you can't get through your head. That's what YPP is. Total offense efficiency. I posted the damn links. If I wanted to hide anything I didn't have to. It agrees with everything I have been saying does it not?

[mav1234]

Not many are saying YPP is useless or bad. We're just saying it's scoring efficiency, which is so much more than just offensive efficiency.

There is absolutely no accounting of the yards from a punt return that goes for a touchdown. The only impact that special teams yards have is in making the field smaller, meaning that the offense doesn't need to travel as far to score. This is virtually the opposite of if special teams yards were added in in some form...

I feel like a broken record.

[chef17]

mav I thought you were smarter than this.

If my offense drives to the 50 yard line and doesn't score those yards add up towards your ypp inefficiency. They are useless but they are counted. On the next drive if it travels the entire field from its 1 yard line it traveled a total of 100.

One yard line is not the .1 inch marker. If an offense starts at the one yard line as you started they go 99 yards, not 100. Your math sucks ass