Football Outsiders updated Panthers statistics

[dos poptarts]

Yards allowed per drive: 30th (36.48)

Points allowed per drive: 32nd

TDs allowed per drive: 30th

Defensive forced punts per drive: 28th

Turnovers per drive: 26th

Three and outs: 29th

If the defense was average at anything, then I think it could be salvaged, but this defense is among the worst at everything. I would think to be this bad, the scheme is not fitting the players. (or the players at this point in their development)

[Captain Obvious]

You guys arguing over definition of horrid....smh

We got a lot of work to do.

[teeray]

Yes it is, and you have been wrong for the past 2 weeks. Yards divided by points. That is a total scoring offensive efficiency ratio. By definition. That's our real life scoring efficiency.

scoring efficiency is how many points we really, actually got in real life footbal from our total yards.

What you are posting is yardage efficiency + expected points(fantasy football works using similar DVOA stats).

And total offenses are ranked by points, not yards! That's what you need to win football games. POINTS! Top 10 offenses are ranked by the number of total points they put up compared to their opponent, not yards.

DVOA = what we are expected to do if we faced a perfect schedule and had an even turnover margin.

YPP = what we actually ended up doing.

DVOA rankings = FANTASY

YPP = REALITY.

You are looking at worthless stats instead of the ones that actually matter. The reason our offense is ranked 25th in YPP is because our offense never meets their DVOA expectations.

8th in DVOA /= to real life ranking.

25th in YPP = real life ranking. 2-7 real life winning-losing record.

Las Vegas. Sports Bookies. Sports Bettors. Power Rankings. They all use YPP. Scoring efficiency(at a more advanced level. because without taking into consideration strength of schedule, those are worthless as well).

Considering I have spent the better part of my adult life either on the felt or in the sportsbook I appreciate you educating me on how YPP is used for gambling and statistics in general. :rolleyes:

As a matter of fact I saved myself some money last weekend by not betting in the Cincy/Pitt game because Cincy's Offensive YPP is so inflated it caused a 10 point swing in favor of Cincy between the spread and the calculated final score using offensive and defensive YPP. Because it isn't reflective of a team's offense or defense. YPP is used as a generic score predictor.

I have an excel spread sheet that allows me to put in the points scored and the total yardage by an offense and the points allowed and yards allowed by the defense of both teams playing on Sunday and it computes a generic score for the game. It is a good tool but can be misleading and in no way do I use it as anything close to an offensive or defensive efficiency model. It is simply used to handicap a game.

I can sum it up easily. How can a stat that takes special teams TDs and defensive TDs and attributes them to the offense be an offensive efficiency stat?? They have nothing to do with the offense!

Scoreability (OYPP) counts ALL points, not just those generated by the offense. The scoreboard does not care how those points get there, only that they do. Well-coached teams score points as many ways as possible. Scoreabilty rewards teams for proficiency in all phases of the game; Bendability (DYPP) applies the same rules to defense.)

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/10/26/49ers.coaching/index.html#ixzz1dvH2QH3t

So if you get two punt returns for TDs but your offense can't muster any points and only get 140 yards of total offense, the teams offensive YPP would be 10.0 ranking them amongst the best in the league. But their offense was poo that day. The 2 TDs had nothing to do with the offense.

That is it. I am not going to play this game again. :lol:

[Sam Mills Fan]

tl;dr version: Our defense is horrendous and our special teams is historically bad.

[PantherProwler]

Four easy steps to being a smarter football fan with stats + 2 harder ones for being a really smart football fan.

The following 4 steps is without taking into consideration schedule of opponents.

1.How to measure "total defense".

yards per game allowed = "total defense"

Total defense: 20th

2.How to measure scoring efficiency or total offense efficiency and total offensive yardage efficiency.

-look here: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

-total yards divided by total points: scoring efficiency(YPP)

-total yards per game divided by total plays per game: yardage efficiency( the other ypp)

-total offense yardage efficiency: 6th. Meaningless ranking by itself.

Scoring efficiency, total offense efficiency: 25th. The most important offensive ranking.

The most important ranking in football next to wins and losses is scoring efficiency and they are usually one and the same. This is your total offense efficiency ratio(yards & points ratio) as well as true total offense. Almost all teams ranking in the upper half of the league in ypp have winning records.

Definitions:

"fake" "total offense"= yards per game. Meaningless stat by itself.

yardage efficiency = yards per play. also bs'ed around as "total offense efficiency" to make Panthers offense look better.

scoring offense = points per game. Important stat, but still not as important as the next.

yards per point = scoring efficiency. True total offense. The most important stat in football.

The more yards you get without scoring the worse your total offense efficiency. The more yards you get without scoring, the worst your offense really is. Because the only way to have that is: not scoring. red-zone issues. turnovers. 3 and outs. penalties. inaccurate quarterback with lots of incompletions especially in scoring opportunities. bad running game. sacks. interceptions. fumbles. bad 3rd down conversion percentage. poor special teams. When this difference in rankings between yardage efficiency and scoring efficiency is that big it means your offense really, really, really sucks because it has a lot of these problems.

3.How to find out Carolina Panthers "true" total offense ranking.

-Scoring offense(PPG)/ total offense(YPG) = YPP(yards per point..NOT the other one)

-Scoring efficiency = total offense efficiency = "true" total offense.

-or just look here: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

Total offense: 25th

4.How to measure defensive scoring efficiency(it's not ypp).

Opponent red-zone scoring "attempts": 22nd(this one is affected by turnovers and field position and it includes FG's. not a good indication of your defense's score stopping ability because defenses generally don't block FG's)

Opponent red-zone touchdown scoring percentage(TD): 21st(this one is better, but once again heavily influenced by turnovers in our own end of the field)

Scoring defense efficiency ~= total defense's ranking = "NFL's "total defense".

When taking into consideration turnover margin.

5.How to easily gauge estimated "true" total offense and total defense.

Find out where your YPP ranks at an even turnover margin.

When taking into consideration schedule.

6.How to find out your standings of your true total offense and total defense

Find out your YPP ranking at an even turnover margin, against an average league adjusted schedule.

Offense vs league average defense.

Defense vs league average offense.

Adjust turnover margin to reflect "true" team turnover margin without schedule interference.

Done.

PS: Step 6 is why you lose money in gambling Teeray. You gotta do it else you have no idea where the teams stand. Also never underestimate the team's quarterback. Ben vs Dalton. And you only thought Cinci's defense was good. It ain't. Just like ours isn't bad.

[mav1234]

Should do this every week, Tee, thanks for the update.

[teeray]

Four easy steps to being a smarter football fan with stats + 2 harder ones for being a really smart football fan.

The following 4 steps is without taking into consideration schedule of opponents.

1.How to measure "total defense".

yards per game allowed = "total defense"

Total defense: 20th

2.How to measure scoring efficiency or total offense efficiency and total offensive yardage efficiency.

-look here: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

-total yards divided by total points: scoring efficiency(YPP)

-total yards per game divided by total plays per game: yardage efficiency( the other ypp)

-total offense yardage efficiency: 6th. Meaningless ranking by itself.

Scoring efficiency, total offense efficiency: 25th. The most important offensive ranking.

The most important ranking in football next to wins and losses is scoring efficiency and they are usually one and the same. This is your total offense efficiency ratio(yards & points ratio) as well as true total offense. Almost all teams ranking in the upper half of the league in ypp have winning records.

Definitions:

"fake" "total offense"= yards per game. Meaningless stat by itself.

yardage efficiency = yards per play. also bs'ed around as "total offense efficiency" to make Panthers offense look better.

scoring offense = points per game. Important stat, but still not as important as the next.

yards per point = scoring efficiency. True total offense. The most important stat in football.

The more yards you get without scoring the worse your total offense efficiency. The more yards you get without scoring, the worst your offense really is. Because the only way to have that is: not scoring. red-zone issues. turnovers. 3 and outs. penalties. inaccurate quarterback with lots of incompletions especially in scoring opportunities. bad running game. sacks. interceptions. fumbles. bad 3rd down conversion percentage. poor special teams. When this difference in rankings between yardage efficiency and scoring efficiency is that big it means your offense really, really, really sucks because it has a lot of these problems.

3.How to find out Carolina Panthers "true" total offense ranking.

-Scoring offense(PPG)/ total offense(YPG) = YPP(yards per point..NOT the other one)

-Scoring efficiency = total offense efficiency = "true" total offense.

-or just look here: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

Total offense: 25th

4.How to measure defensive scoring efficiency(it's not ypp).

Opponent red-zone scoring "attempts": 22nd(this one is affected by turnovers and field position and it includes FG's. not a good indication of your defense's score stopping ability because defenses generally don't block FG's)

Opponent red-zone touchdown scoring percentage(TD): 21st(this one is better, but once again heavily influenced by turnovers in our own end of the field)

Scoring defense efficiency ~= total defense's ranking = "NFL's "total defense".

When taking into consideration turnover margin.

5.How to easily gauge estimated "true" total offense and total defense.

Find out where your YPP ranks at an even turnover margin.

When taking into consideration schedule.

6.How to find out your standings of your true total offense and total defense

Find out your YPP ranking at an even turnover margin, against an average league adjusted schedule.

Offense vs league average defense.

Defense vs league average offense.

Adjust turnover margin to reflect "true" team turnover margin without schedule interference.

Done.

PS: Step 6 is why you lose money in gambling Teeray. You gotta do it else you have no idea where the teams stand. Also never underestimate the team's quarterback. Ben vs Dalton. And you only thought Cinci's defense was good. It ain't. Just like ours isn't bad.

Saying the same thing over and over again does not make it anymore true :lol:

As far as #6 goes I use an entirely different formula that handicaps games and weighs SOS but it doesn't have anything to do with YPP.

Plus your statistical credibility takes a hit when you say "4 easy steps to being a smarter football fan" and then list six things :lol: ;)

[chef17]

Are field goals calculated into YPP?

[PantherProwler]

Saying the same thing over and over again does not make it anymore true :lol:

As far as #6 goes I use an entirely different formula that handicaps games and weighs SOS but it doesn't have anything to do with YPP.

Plus your statistical credibility takes a hit when you say "4 easy steps to being a smarter football fan" and then list six things :lol: ;)

Why Teeray is a hack, a bad gambler and a fraud with stats:

1. His attention to detail sucks. If you read my thread more carefully it says it in the title in bold: it says four easy steps + 2 harder ones. 2+4 = 6.

2. Teeray can't add. Why listen to someone who can't add 2+4?

3. He only posts stats that make our offense look good and our defense look bad.

4. He changes definitions. Total offense efficiency is scoring efficiency not yardage efficiency. Points are the most important thing for an offense and yes Teeray, even a dumb Huddler, can understand points are more important than yards.

5. The stats he doesn't want you to see. Important offensive stats that show our team's problem:

Red zone-scoring attempts: 6th

Red zone touchdown scoring: 21st

Points per field goal attempts: 26th

Total offense(yards): 6th

Total offense(scoring): 19th

Sacks: 24th

Interceptions thrown:21st

Offensive penalties: top of the league

Total offense efficiency: 25th The most important offensive stat. Also total offense efficiency.

Notice the difference between our offense's ranking in red-zone scoring attempts vs touchdowns. from 6th to 21st in the league. INEFFICIENCY. Same with field goal attempts.

Total offense scoring efficiency at an even turnover margin: 21st

Total defense scoring efficiency at an even turnover margin: 21st

Our negative turnover margin is due to facing efficient opponents and due to the quarterback being ranked at the bottom of the league in interceptions: 24th

True Total offense(points and yards): 25th The most important offensive stat.

Total defense: 20th. The most important defensive stat.

[Jangler]

If I want to read a book...

[PantherProwler]

Are field goals calculated into YPP?

yes.

[chef17]

So you are using a stat that says an offense that goes 3 yards and kicks a field goal is more efficient than an offense that goes 70 for a touchdown? That just shows how silly it is

[PantherProwler]

So you are using a stat that says an offense that goes 3 yards and kicks a field goal is more efficient than an offense that goes 70 for a touchdown? That just shows how silly it is

That's not how it works buddy. Which part of total yards did you not understand?

total yards/total points = YPP.

scoring offense/ "total offense in yards" = total offense efficiency

Carolina:

399.7 yards per game(6th)

21.1 points per game(19th)

Scoring offense by itself already more important than total offensive yards. Anywhere but here. Points per game is more important than yards per game.

399.7/21.1 = 18.94

And that's exactly our ypp rounded to the nearest decimal = http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

18.9 yards per point.

25th.

You guys under the wrong impression that lots of yards without the matching points is a good thing. No, it's bad! It makes you a bad, bad offense. Those numbers need to match up else it means your offense is very inefficient and doing bad poo.

PS: For an offense to kick a FG it must have traveled at least ~50 yards, and need one hell of a kicker, or obtain a takeaway. 50/3 = 16.6ypp which would make you a below average team even if you had a kicker that could make 65 yard FG's. A touchdown+PAT = 100 yards/7 = 14.2 yards per point.

[teeray]

Why Teeray is a hack, a bad gambler and a fraud with stats:

1. His attention to detail sucks. If you read my thread more carefully it says it in the title in bold: it says four easy steps + 2 harder ones. 2+4 = 6.

2. Teeray can't add. Why listen to someone who can't add 2+4?

3. He only posts stats that make our offense look good and our defense look bad.

4. He changes definitions. Total offense efficiency is scoring efficiency not yardage efficiency. Points are the most important thing for an offense and yes Teeray, even a dumb Huddler, can understand points are more important than yards.

5. The stats he doesn't want you to see. Important offensive stats that show our team's problem:

Red zone-scoring attempts: 6th

Red zone touchdown scoring: 21st

Points per field goal attempts: 26th

Total offense(yards): 6th

Total offense(scoring): 19th

Sacks: 24th

Interceptions thrown:21st

Offensive penalties: top of the league

Total offense efficiency: 25th The most important offensive stat. Also total offense efficiency.

Notice the difference between our offense's ranking in red-zone scoring attempts vs touchdowns. from 6th to 21st in the league. INEFFICIENCY. Same with field goal attempts.

Total offense scoring efficiency at an even turnover margin: 21st

Total defense scoring efficiency at an even turnover margin: 21st

Our negative turnover margin is due to facing efficient opponents and due to the quarterback being ranked at the bottom of the league in interceptions: 24th

True Total offense(points and yards): 25th The most important offensive stat.

Total defense: 20th. The most important defensive stat.

Posting the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

Sorry I misread your previous post. My apologies! :(

And yes. Points per field goal attempts is very important offensive statistic :rofl: Geebus.

How can I take you seriously when you list points per field goal attempt as an "important offensive stat"??

I am not trying to make anyone look good offense or defense. I've never said our offense has been perfect. We do have room for improvement in the red zone (although there is a bit of irony in you giving me poo about attention to detail and you got our Red Zone TD ranking wrong. We are 20th not 21st :lol:) . Our turnovers are about at league average or a little bit below (17th) or if you would rather use turnovers per drive we are a little worse than than average (20th) so we can always improve on that.

I just don't consider YPP an offensive efficiency stat. Much like the rest of the statistical world doesn't. And I value certain stats more than you do. It is as simple as that.

I don't have an agenda. When I say our defense sucks, it is because they suck. When I say our offense had been pretty good, it is because they have been pretty good. I just call it like I see it and the stats generally back up my assessment.

And does calling me a hack, bad gambler, and a fraud make you feel better about yourself??