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When does the blame start landing on Rivera

hepcat

By hepcat,
in Carolina Panthers

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KintnerBoy Newbie

KintnerBoy

Posted
Posted

That would be JR & Hurney's fault then. They knew a year in advance that he would be gone. Don't give them a free pass on their primary responsibility on these matters; Fox should not be the scapegoat...it's Hurney's job.

You hit the nail on the head. Hurney is the main problem.

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realtriumph Newbie

realtriumph

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Its way too early to start hearing this BS from you doubters. Yes there is a problem but until today we have had good showings on offense. The defense won't be right until the injuries stop and RR gets the players he wants. No one expected much from this season anyway so give it time for crying out loud. I am upset too but we are still playing with Foxes team.

Sure we have. To the untrained eye maybe. Those who understand what to expect know our offense has underperformed all year long. You look at points at the end of the game and yards. Which is not how to judge an offense if you do not take into consideration what their defense is supposed to allow in points on average.

Carolina just fell from 21st to 29th in the league in scoring efficiency today(YPP). 21st was still way below average to begin with. Entering today's game Tennessee allowed average offenses: 1 point for every ~15 yards. or 15 ypp.

Our offense got: 279 yards.

They were expected to give up: 18.6 points off those yards.

Our offenses ypp was ~20 ypp, making us a below average offense. We were expected to get: 14 points if we faced an average defense.

But we faced a below average defense so we were expected to get: 16 points off of our yards.

We only got 3. If you do this for every game you will understand our offense has only met its expectations twice. Against Washington and against Jacksonville.

The rest of the time we sucked and played below our expected level. But people only look at points and yards, not taking into consideration how many points you are expected to get off of those yards, and how many points your opposing defense is expected to give up.

Tennessee's defense efficiency improved today and our offense's efficiency dropped us to the bottom of the league next to Indianapolis and St. Louis Rams. And yes you have have a defense that puts up 350 yards a game that's as bad overall as one that only puts up 200 or so.

Our defense gave up exactly what they were expected to give up. No more no less because they had a - turnover margin to deal with. Our defense has played better than they are ranked all year. Our offense has played worse than they are ranked all year. Ever since the first game with the exception of those 2 we won.

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Nemesis Newbie

Nemesis

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Sure we have. To the untrained eye maybe. Those who understand what to expect know our offense has underperformed all year long. You look at points at the end of the game and yards. Which is not how to judge an offense if you do not take into consideration what their defense is supposed to allow in points on average.

Carolina just fell from 21st to 29th in the league in scoring efficiency today(YPP). 21st was still way below average to begin with. Entering today's game Tennessee allowed average offenses: 1 point for every ~15 yards. or 15 ypp.

Our offense got: 279 yards.

They were expected to give up: 18.6 points off those yards.

Our offenses ypp was ~20 ypp, making us a below average offense. We were expected to get: 14 points if we faced an average defense.

But we faced a below average defense so we were expected to get: 16 points off of our yards.

We only got 3. If you do this for every game you will understand our offense has only met its expectations twice. Against Washington and against Jacksonville.

The rest of the time we sucked and played below our expected level. But people only look at points and yards, not taking into consideration how many points you are expected to get off of those yards, and how many points your opposing defense is expected to give up.

Tennessee's defense efficiency improved today and our offense's efficiency dropped us to the bottom of the league next to Indianapolis and St. Louis Rams. And yes you have have a defense that puts up 350 yards a game that's as bad overall as one that only puts up 200 or so.

Our defense gave up exactly what they were expected to give up. No more no less because they had a - turnover margin to deal with. Our defense has played better than they are ranked all year. Our offense has played worse than they are ranked all year. Ever since the first game with the exception of those 2 we won.

With all this knowledge of what is wrong,you must have the solution to the problem?

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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offense has showed up every week but this week......that happens. problem is we have nothing but a offense.....

Hard to say he is getting outcoached.......when we don't have a legitimate NFL caliber roster on defense and ST. majority of the guys have no business seeing the action they are seeing.

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bleys Newbie

bleys

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as bad as he was, he's the best coach this team has had

and yes, I'm glad he's gone and they tried to improve.....but that doesn't mean Rivera is a good coach either

Only time will tell.

yeah, Rivera and Fox are 2 totally separate conversations.. we'll see how Rivera turns out down the road..

as for Fox? people are stupid if they want to pretend games like today never happened under his watch.. it's why he was fuging fired.. :lol:

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realtriumph Newbie

realtriumph

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With all this knowledge of what is wrong,you must have the solution to the problem?

I do actually. Find a capable vet. Make Cam Newton re-earn his starting position or let him sit there. But that's not going to happen.

-6 of 7 in 4th quarter comebacks

-last in sacks

-first in penalties

-68.0 QB rating in 4th quarter comebacks

-1 out of 14 possessions in 4th quarter comebacks(7%)

-only beat the 2 teams ranked worst than us on offense.

People think the offense showed up? Why, because they put up 28 points? That means nothing. It depends what defense you are playing.

After Arizona when facing the following defenses we were expected to score the following

GB's we were expected to put up ~37.

Against Chicago's ~36

Against Atlanta- ~31

Against Vikings- ~28

Against Titans- ~20

This is based on the efficiency of our offense and yards the week before they played them. We failed on every one of those games. Our offense played good enough to lose in every game and continue to get worse. Notice how our expectations dropped every week and we still could not meet them.

You guys need to understand even Indianapolis, the most inefficient offense in the league can put up 24 points on the right defense. They put up 20 on Pittsburg because Pittsburg helps teams out by turning over the ball. They put up 24 on Kansas City.

We are now 3 spots above Indy. We have yet to meet our expectations once this year except when other offenses also didn't meet theirs: Jaguars and Washington.

The only thing we can do is wait. Wait for Cam to get better. That's it. It's not the defense. It's not the rest of the team. It's not the special teams. It's him. If he gets better we win. If he stays the same and doesn't learn and can't handle it we need someone else. That's the answer. This is a leadership issue and a learning curve issue.

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governoraggie Newbie

governoraggie

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I pretty much never post but want to this time...unfortunately being in Houston, I don't get to see Carolina as much as I want, but here's my take on Rivera:

He's made a lot of mistakes--A LOT, but I'm willing to give him a couple years and a couple drafts. It seems like he was a key proponent of drafting Cam, so I expect him to keep drafting well.

Concerning him vs. Harbaugh, pland67 hit the nail on the head on all accounts--he was NEVER coming to Carolina (just like he didn't go to Miami). EVER. EVER. EVER. Period. He gets to live in the same house he did while coaching at Stanford, so it was easy to decide on the family front.

And all SF is doing is being the team that they were constructed to be at least as far back as when they overpaid for Nate Clements (highest-paid DB at the time, remember?). They've drafted okay over the years. They're in a weak division. They were the sexy pick to win that division and make the playoffs for years. Now they're finally doing it. Good on him.

And Harbaugh at least had some degree of head coaching experience. It was college, but it was more the Rivera had.

Oh, and Carolina only won twice last year, with more talent on the field last year than this year overall IMO (mainly defensively). What, do we think that having the #1 pick was a fluke?

Cam has spoiled us already. His play alone is why we feel like we should have won more games, including this one. Personally, when the schedule was released I thought there were AT BEST 3 wins.

Not making excuses, just putting it in perspective. Yes, looking this crappy out a bye week is inexcusable--especially sandwiched between home games--but I'm willing to give the guy time.

At least we're only a game back of the Dream Team.

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