When does the blame start landing on Rivera

[rayzor]

Being the league's most penalized team and getting blown out at home against a mediocre Titans squad after a bye week requires some explanation beyond what Rivera has been saying all season calling it a "growing season" and being a "young football team". Why wasn't the team prepared? Why have there been so many penalties? What can you do in the future to fix these issues?

it all boils down to

• young team
  
• incredibly shortened offseason
  
• drastically different schemes on offense and defense compared to what was in place before
  
• personnel issues....mainly a ton of injuries to key players and an inability to have a consistent lineup really on either side of the ball, but esp. on defense.
  

sorry if that's not a good enough reason for some of you experts. that's the reality of the situation.

fixing them will take time that they will have plenty of, esp. since...and i know that this is going to disappoint a few...rivera is going to be around for a long time.

rivera just wasn't given the time he needed to get this team ready for the season.

the massive amount of injuries that have taken place...so far 12 have been put on IR, which is 2 short of what they had in all of '04 and we are just halfway through the season.

making it even worse was that they lost beason and davis as well as the vet DT they were counting on this year early in the season. it can't be underestimated just how detrimental that was to the team being able to get it's act together this year. they just don't have the leadership they desperately needed on the field.

now i know that people are going to and have been making comparisons to jim harbaugh, but harbaugh has had an advantage in a couple key areas.

1) he's had a much healthier team to deal with. the only guy i could at all consider key thats on IR is josh morgan...a mediocre WR at best. they had to go without braylon edwards for a few games but...meh. they only have 4 on IR compared to us (12).

2) although it's college head coaching experience, he still has head coaching experience. this is brand new territory for rivera. there is a difference between the two jobs and of course it was going to take rivera a little more time learning how to manage things in that capacity.

3) harbaugh inherited a better team. better offense. better defense. better special teams.

4) they've also had much more stability in key positions than we have, such as LBs, Dline, and Oline (largely due to lack of injuries).

5) harbaugh isn't starting a rookie QB. he got a very underrated QB that was considered just bad, but who was really a guy who was in a horrible situation that no QB not named peyton manning would have been able to succeed in. every year of his career he has had a different OC and a drastically different offensive scheme with no coaching staff willing to build around his strengths like harbaugh did.

look at this and say, "meh...you're just making excuses but THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR GOING 2-14!!!!" even though that isn't the record and the season is done.

harbaugh and the 49ers lucked out in that situation. they just needed new management. we needed a complete overhaul. it's going to take more time to get this wagon right here, but it's going to happen. most of the pieces are here that we need. it's just a matter of getting everyone healthy and on the same page and that will happen probably not as soon as some of you guys looking for a quick fix would like, but soon enough.

we're moving forward and we got the right group of guys here to go forward. give it a couple years before you start screaming that the sky is falling.

[DaCityKats]

it all boils down to

• young team
  
• incredibly shortened offseason
  
• drastically different schemes on offense and defense compared to what was in place before
  
• personnel issues....mainly a ton of injuries to key players and an inability to have a consistent lineup really on either side of the ball, but esp. on defense.
  

sorry if that's not a good enough reason for some of you experts. that's the reality of the situation.

fixing them will take time that they will have plenty of, esp. since...and i know that this is going to disappoint a few...rivera is going to be around for a long time.

rivera just wasn't given the time he needed to get this team ready for the season.

the massive amount of injuries that have taken place...so far 12 have been put on IR, which is 2 short of what they had in all of '04 and we are just halfway through the season.

making it even worse was that they lost beason and davis as well as the vet DT they were counting on this year early in the season. it can't be underestimated just how detrimental that was to the team being able to get it's act together this year. they just don't have the leadership they desperately needed on the field.

now i know that people are going to and have been making comparisons to jim harbaugh, but harbaugh has had an advantage in a couple key areas.

1) he's had a much healthier team to deal with. the only guy i could at all consider key thats on IR is josh morgan...a mediocre WR at best. they had to go without braylon edwards for a few games but...meh. they only have 4 on IR compared to us (12).

2) although it's college head coaching experience, he still has head coaching experience. this is brand new territory for rivera. there is a difference between the two jobs and of course it was going to take rivera a little more time learning how to manage things in that capacity.

3) harbaugh inherited a better team. better offense. better defense. better special teams.

4) they've also had much more stability in key positions than we have, such as LBs, Dline, and Oline (largely due to lack of injuries).

5) harbaugh isn't starting a rookie QB. he got a very underrated QB that was considered just bad, but who was really a guy who was in a horrible situation that no QB not named peyton manning would have been able to succeed in. every year of his career he has had a different OC and a drastically different offensive scheme with no coaching staff willing to build around his strengths like harbaugh did.

look at this and say, "meh...you're just making excuses but THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR GOING 2-14!!!!" even though that isn't the record and the season is done.

harbaugh and the 49ers lucked out in that situation. they just needed new management. we needed a complete overhaul. it's going to take more time to get this wagon right here, but it's going to happen. most of the pieces are here that we need. it's just a matter of getting everyone healthy and on the same page and that will happen probably not as soon as some of you guys looking for a quick fix would like, but soon enough.

we're moving forward and we got the right group of guys here to go forward. give it a couple years before you start screaming that the sky is falling.

same thing i said just more in depth. good post. you cannot compare the two when one has HC experience and the other does not. he has time to get it together, if not he will be gone.

[boo7382]

Okay, maybe the Detroit game isn't very winnable, but the other two games are.

still applies....not sure if trolling or just don't know what you are talking about

[logic1977]

Rayzor did a great job with his right up, and I agree with it, BUT there still isn't any excuse for what happened last week.

hopefully we see a turn around, but last week is on Ron

[rayzor]

Rayzor did a great job with his right up, and I agree with it, BUT there still isn't any excuse for what happened last week.

hopefully we see a turn around, but last week is on Ron

agreed about last week.

that was just an ugly game in all aspects. no redeeming qualities to it at all. everyone from coaching down gets a failing grade on that, but those games happen.

unfortunately it happened in a year when our best football still results in close games that wind up on the wrong side of the W-L column.

[Montsta]

it all boils down to

• young team
  
• incredibly shortened offseason
  
• drastically different schemes on offense and defense compared to what was in place before
  
• personnel issues....mainly a ton of injuries to key players and an inability to have a consistent lineup really on either side of the ball, but esp. on defense.
  

sorry if that's not a good enough reason for some of you experts. that's the reality of the situation.

fixing them will take time that they will have plenty of, esp. since...and i know that this is going to disappoint a few...rivera is going to be around for a long time.

rivera just wasn't given the time he needed to get this team ready for the season.

the massive amount of injuries that have taken place...so far 12 have been put on IR, which is 2 short of what they had in all of '04 and we are just halfway through the season.

making it even worse was that they lost beason and davis as well as the vet DT they were counting on this year early in the season. it can't be underestimated just how detrimental that was to the team being able to get it's act together this year. they just don't have the leadership they desperately needed on the field.

now i know that people are going to and have been making comparisons to jim harbaugh, but harbaugh has had an advantage in a couple key areas.

1) he's had a much healthier team to deal with. the only guy i could at all consider key thats on IR is josh morgan...a mediocre WR at best. they had to go without braylon edwards for a few games but...meh. they only have 4 on IR compared to us (12).

2) although it's college head coaching experience, he still has head coaching experience. this is brand new territory for rivera. there is a difference between the two jobs and of course it was going to take rivera a little more time learning how to manage things in that capacity.

3) harbaugh inherited a better team. better offense. better defense. better special teams.

4) they've also had much more stability in key positions than we have, such as LBs, Dline, and Oline (largely due to lack of injuries).

5) harbaugh isn't starting a rookie QB. he got a very underrated QB that was considered just bad, but who was really a guy who was in a horrible situation that no QB not named peyton manning would have been able to succeed in. every year of his career he has had a different OC and a drastically different offensive scheme with no coaching staff willing to build around his strengths like harbaugh did.

look at this and say, "meh...you're just making excuses but THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR GOING 2-14!!!!" even though that isn't the record and the season is done.

harbaugh and the 49ers lucked out in that situation. they just needed new management. we needed a complete overhaul. it's going to take more time to get this wagon right here, but it's going to happen. most of the pieces are here that we need. it's just a matter of getting everyone healthy and on the same page and that will happen probably not as soon as some of you guys looking for a quick fix would like, but soon enough.

we're moving forward and we got the right group of guys here to go forward. give it a couple years before you start screaming that the sky is falling.

In Rivera's pressers, he talks constantly about guys missing their gap or trying to do too much. He doesn't seem to think they are just getting outmanned out there. Now of course he probably would never say that, but he seems pretty candid. Hopefully with a full offseason and some key guys back, guys will be where they are supposed to be more often than not, and you won't see so many big runs and 3rd and long conversions to the tight end.

[pantherrice]

still applies....not sure if trolling or just don't know what you are talking about

If you think TB and Ind arent very winnable games, maybe you dont know what you are talking about.

[goodoleboy]

If you think TB and Ind arent very winnable games, maybe you dont know what you are talking about.

In that case. Do you all consider 4-12 an acceptable improvement for this rookie staff? To me that would have been a ho hum result with Cam looking like the average rookie QB. With him looking like a potentially elite guy I would have expected more. Defense has slipped more than I expected.

[boo7382]

If you think TB and Ind arent very winnable games, maybe you dont know what you are talking about.

No, Im not sure you are understanding my point.

pantherrice If we go 0-3 on this 3 game road trip, he should be fired. These are 3 very winnable games.

[panthers55]

In that case. Do you all consider 4-12 an acceptable improvement for this rookie staff? To me that would have been a ho hum result with Cam looking like the average rookie QB. With him looking like a potentially elite guy I would have expected more. Defense has slipped more than I expected.

The defensive issues are that McDermott's scheme demands everyone be where they are supposed to be on every play. Plus the most crticial unit for his defense are the linebackers who have been decimated. That means that players need to be consistent and have good chemistry and teamwork. In our 9 games we have had 8 different starting lineups on defense. Hard to get consistency when you are plugging in new guys all the time. So instead of an aggressive blitzing defense, we have an inconsistent defense which is giving up big plays especially on third down. Hard to stop anyone that way.

[goodoleboy]

The defensive issues are that McDermott's scheme demands everyone be where they are supposed to be on every play. Plus the most crticial unit for his defense are the linebackers who have been decimated. That means that players need to be consistent and have good chemistry and teamwork. In our 9 games we have had 8 different starting lineups on defense. Hard to get consistency when you are plugging in new guys all the time. So instead of an aggressive blitzing defense, we have an inconsistent defense which is giving up big plays especially on third down. Hard to stop anyone that way.

Isn't coaching getting the most out of the personnel available? Fitting the scheme to the players. If that means simplifying things then do it. Injuries happen every year but life goes on. Everyone bangs on Fox here but he is winning in Denver running a High School offense with The Golden Calf of Bristol. My biggest problem with the D is our lack of fundamentals. At its core football breaks down to blocking and tackling. I would rather see better fundamentals and less complexity.

[panthers55]

Isn't coaching getting the most out of the personnel available? Fitting the scheme to the players. If that means simplifying things then do it. Injuries happen every year but life goes on. Everyone bangs on Fox here but he is winning in Denver running a High School offense with The Golden Calf of Bristol. My biggest problem with the D is our lack of fundamentals. At its core football breaks down to blocking and tackling. I would rather see better fundamentals and less complexity.

Right now we are fitting the scheme to the players and it is not working well since we don't have great players to work with at many positions. But in general this defense is predicated on finding players who can run this scheme. When that happens we will be pretty good. Until that happens we will struggle.

Fundamentals also includes being in the right gap assignments and doing what is expected on every play. Frankly I was not a fan of Meeks who ran a simple scheme. Simple to run, simple to beat.

Once we get the pieces we need to run this defense it will be a good one. I hate waiting but recognize that you have to be patient with a new staff and inexperienced players in this scheme.

[davos]

The thing that may be driving a lot of the frustration right now is simply the lack of fire that appears with such a young team with so much promise. If we are to be critical of Rivera, we should be as critical to players like Gross, DeAngelo, Kalil, CJ, Stew etc. who haven't taken Beason's key role beyond being a linebacker: the true leader of the team. He was the glue as I mentioned in another thread who we all assumed was indestructible.

I hate hypotheticals but damn I just wonder where we would be at if he was never injured...and yeah one player can have that effect if he means that much to a team...and Beason meant a sh*t ton to our very young and vulnerable team.

Someone whether it be Rivera, McD, Anderson, CJ, Hardy, DeAngelo, Stew, etc. needs to fire these motherf8ckers up. I've mentioned before: I'm just tired of the sulking sideline attitidue during games. Get together and rally up.

[goodoleboy]

Right now we are fitting the scheme to the players and it is not working well since we don't have great players to work with at many positions. But in general this defense is predicated on finding players who can run this scheme. When that happens we will be pretty good. Until that happens we will struggle.

Fundamentals also includes being in the right gap assignments and doing what is expected on every play. Frankly I was not a fan of Meeks who ran a simple scheme. Simple to run, simple to beat.

Once we get the pieces we need to run this defense it will be a good one. I hate waiting but recognize that you have to be patient with a new staff and inexperienced players in this scheme.

All of this is true but I have a hard time watching poor tackling. We are one of the worse teams on 3rd down. Too many times if we just dropped the reciever where he caught the ball or tackled the back with the first point of contact there would not be a 1st down conversion.

I am also not sold on this merging of two system approach. One thing about Fox. There was a unified scheme with one boss. These guys want to evolve something new and different. It may be the latest and greatest but it could also fail miserably. So far it has.