Breaking News: Denver plans to deal QB Cutler

[carolinarolls]

I couldn't agree less. So Mr. Scot, Murph, X-Clown, rayzor, me, etc. etc. who support his being the starter are all snugglers even though none of us have ever said anything like that?

Yes there are people who are extremes each way, I am not saying there aren't. I am only saying that the mentality you describe isn't a prerequisite to supporting him as the starter.

I am merely pointing out that you have to overlook quite a bit to be a fan of his and that is from a critical person's perspective. I have no doubt that you do not see yourself in this way.

[rayzor]

so you either see him as a talentless buffoon and a joke or you are a snuggler?

got it.

[carolinarolls]

so you either see him as a talentless buffoon and a joke or you are a snuggler?

got it.

that is a bit extreme but you are on the right track

talentless no...very minimal talent, yes

bafoon no...average intelligence, yes

he's better described as a shaky yet opportunistic hack

and the joke is when everyone pulls out stats to defend him

[rayzor]

that is a bit extreme but you are on the right track

talentless no...very minimal talent, yes

bafoon no...average intelligence, yes

he's better described as a shaky yet opportunistic hack

and the joke is when everyone pulls out stats to defend him

not an extreme...everytime one of us educated people say he isn't as bad as you think you find it appropriate to speak condescendingly towards us and call us snugglars. you are more closed minded and blind about this and the peppers situation than any of the people you accuse of being snugglars or stupid for thinking that hurney is handling the peppers correctly.

btw...

the guy just is not talented...period

[carolinarolls]

not an extreme...everytime one of us educated people say he isn't as bad as you think you find it appropriate to speak condescendingly towards us and call us snugglars. you are more closed minded and blind about this and the peppers situation than any of the people you accuse of being snugglars or stupid for thinking that hurney is handling the peppers correctly.

btw...

awwwwh dont get your feewings all tied up in a wad rayzor. you educated people should know that it is impossible to be rude on a message board. especially an annonymous one about sports. If I did not truly believe hurney was wrong and jake sucks then I wouldnt think anyone else is stupid for disagreeing. Everyone is entitleed to their opinion but on here I have NEVER been entitled to mine because sometimes it is contrarian.

I ate crow last year and jumped right on Jakes bandwagon. He fvcked me/us over again.

He does have talent as far as throwing the ball in a spiral and getting it into the general direction of a group of players on opposing teams. he does not have first string NFL talent...sorry if that was not made clear earlier.

[rayzor]

just because people like to debate without resorting to constant belittling and would like to debate with not-so-closed a minded person doesn't mean feelings are hurt or there is thin skin involved.

it might mean that one of the parties is thick skulled, though.

[CRA]

He does have talent as far as throwing the ball in a spiral and getting it into the general direction of a group of players on opposing teams. he does not have first string NFL talent...sorry if that was not made clear earlier.

well clearly his resume as a starter speaks against your logic. I mean, since 2003 he had taken Carolina to the playoffs 3 times in 5 seasons as the starter(I'm not going to count his injured year) w/ 2 NFCCGs.

I can understand the arguement that you don't like a gambler/gunslinger and would prefer a different style QB. I mean Jake is poor man's Brett Favre....he is going to throw it up and let guys try to make plays. He is proven to be starting caliber QB by his play. Now you can argue that we need a QB who manages a game better and is a less of a risk........

in the end the guys who bash Jake only acknowledge the bad aspects of his game. I mean the bashers don't have a problem w/ Jake throwing it up against Green Bay and giving Smitty a chance to make plays....they just have a problem when he does the exact same thing and throws it up.....and the other result shows up. Jake has one us more games b/c of his style of play than lost us.....by a wide margin.

[mantal]

awwwwh dont get your feewings all tied up in a wad rayzor. you educated people should know that it is impossible to be rude on a message board. especially an annonymous one about sports. If I did not truly believe hurney was wrong and jake sucks then I wouldnt think anyone else is stupid for disagreeing. Everyone is entitleed to their opinion but on here I have NEVER been entitled to mine because sometimes it is contrarian.

I ate crow last year and jumped right on Jakes bandwagon. He fvcked me/us over again.

He does have talent as far as throwing the ball in a spiral and getting it into the general direction of a group of players on opposing teams. he does not have first string NFL talent...sorry if that was not made clear earlier.

He had first string NFL talent when he brought us back from an 18 point deficit at Jacksonville in his first game as a Panther. He had first string NFL talent when he lead us to a Super Bowl. He had first string talent when he helped clean the Giants clock in a shut out in the playoffs, then turned around and blanked the Bears after they had beaten us in the regular season. He has his bad days, a given, don't get mad, we all have them.

I've never said he was elite and I know that you know that. But he's what we've got and are likely to retain, coming off a 12-4 season the year after Tommy John's surgery. He's fine for now, we need to begin searching for the next QB, but we need to make the right decision, not jump just to jump, we already saw what that is like...

[Fireball77]

Everyone is entitleed to their opinion but on here I have NEVER been entitled to mine because sometimes it is contrarian.

You're entitled to your opinion.

When you either wittingly or unwittingly insult others and exaggerate in your favor to forward your opinion, those aren't things that help you advance respect for your POV.

[carolinarolls]

just because people like to debate without resorting to constant belittling and would like to debate with not-so-closed a minded person doesn't mean feelings are hurt or there is thin skin involved.

it might mean that one of the parties is thick skulled, though.

do me a favor and don't take the high road. I'm not buying it. I get attacked as much as or more than anyone here so you will not get any pity points from me ...sorry.

I'm also not closed-minded at all. What part of I just ate crow last year on this subject and jumped on the bandwagon don't you understand?

How can I foresee and successfully defend a theory as whacked out as letting Peppers walk without being open-minded. Do yo think I enjoy thinking that My favorite player that I have follwed since Chapel Hill is really not worth anything? Am I perceived as that contrarian that People believe i take the opposite stance no matter how bizarre and battle it out on this board for some kind of sport?

If so, let me clear it up and say that is not the ase at all.

closed-minded, LOL, what are you trying to convince me of? What point are you trying to get across that I keep ignoring?

[rayzor]

do me a favor and don't take the high road. I'm not buying it. I get attacked as much as or more than anyone here so you will not get any pity points from me ...sorry.

I'm also not closed-minded at all. What part of I just ate crow last year on this subject and jumped on the bandwagon don't you understand?

How can I foresee and successfully defend a theory as whacked out as letting Peppers walk without being open-minded. Do yo think I enjoy thinking that My favorite player that I have follwed since Chapel Hill is really not worth anything? Am I perceived as that contrarian that People believe i take the opposite stance no matter how bizarre and battle it out on this board for some kind of sport?

If so, let me clear it up and say that is not the ase at all.

closed-minded, LOL, what are you trying to convince me of? What point are you trying to get across that I keep ignoring?

not taking the high road at all...just being honest (as i'm sure you are). Whether you buy it or not isn't my problem.

I can see the valid points that you make regarding both situations (jake and pep) but you are unwavering to a fault in your position. you treat any possibility that you might be wrong as stupidity and anyone who suggests that you might be wrong as foolish.

you may have eaten your crow in the past and i have to say that regarding the peppers situation i hope you do again. whether you will or not remains to be seen because we still don't know how it is going to turn out.

just because you have been attacked in the past doesn't mean that any disagreement with you is an attack and warrants an attack back.

i can understand your frustration with the peppers situation having been a fan of his since the beginning and your anger at the organization for not handling it the way you think it should have been. understand, though, that what others of us have been saying is the panthers just might know what they are doing. you don't have to agree with that but it is he case none-the-less.

i look for places where common ground can be found but i don't think that it is in going to one extreme or the other. if i have attacked you, i'm sorry. I'm not upset that people hold other positions than mine. i do, however, get frustrated when people's stances on things get to the point where it is only their way or wrong and are unwilling to see any possible alternative opinion as having merit. i get more frustrated when those peoples only recourse is to ridicule and attack the other person or people who think differently and call them juvenile names.

if that isn't you, then i'm willing to believe it.

[carolinarolls]

well clearly his resume as a starter speaks against your logic. I mean, since 2003 he had taken Carolina to the playoffs 3 times in 5 seasons as the starter(I'm not going to count his injured year) w/ 2 NFCCGs.

I can understand the arguement that you don't like a gambler/gunslinger and would prefer a different style QB. I mean Jake is poor man's Brett Favre....he is going to throw it up and let guys try to make plays. He is proven to be starting caliber QB by his play. Now you can argue that we need a QB who manages a game better and is a less of a risk........

in the end the guys who bash Jake only acknowledge the bad aspects of his game. I mean the bashers don't have a problem w/ Jake throwing it up against Green Bay and giving Smitty a chance to make plays....they just have a problem when he does the exact same thing and throws it up.....and the other result shows up. Jake has one us more games b/c of his style of play than lost us.....by a wide margin.

I have mentioned twice on this board how reckless the end of the game against GB was and that heaving a ball is not necessary as nearly as often when you have a smart guy who is heady and accurate enough to read the defense and make the intermediate throw. Heaving the ball like those GB plays is what Jake is..that is it. 50-50 balls that we live or die by.

I am not impressed and I am not satisfied. I also do not give him all the credit for the success or all the credit for the failures. I just think we would be a much better team with a smarter and more talented leader under center.

[carolinarolls]

You're entitled to your opinion.

When you either wittingly or unwittingly insult others and exaggerate in your favor to forward your opinion, those aren't things that help you advance respect for your POV.

I am not here for any of that. And if I exaggerate anything its after what I feel to be repeated exaggerations to the contrary have been posted in most every case. Some days I do get overzealous though.

[psyburn21]

I don't think Cutler is a locker room problem or has a bad attitude. But that doesn't mean he would be a good fit in Carolina. The comparison to TO is more about his wishes as a player, give me ball mentality, than what TO does in the locker room. I actually like that mentality.

I can agree with that.

But with a team that is run heavy, Cutler just wouldn't be a good fit. Now, that is my opinion and Hurney and Fox could see it differently, who knows.

On this I have to differ with you. Just because the team is a run oriented based offense, doesn't mean he can't fit its passing game. In Denver's old offense they were run first as well, but injuries caused they to pass more (they lost a ton of running backs during the last season). Infact, I think it would give the offense an strong arm and somewhat accurate deep ball passer. That coupled with Steve Smith would definitely cause problems for a defense defending this offense. Another thing to think about is the run-based offense may help his development. He wouldn't have to throw as much and would not have to force passes as much, which generally helps accuracy.

With all that said. I doubt that he'll end up here. Denver is gonna want a QB that can start for several years there, and I don't think Jake is a long term solution any more. If possible, a three-way deal involving the Browns could get Jay Cutler here and Juilus Peppers to the Browns along with Carolina's 1st round pick next year and one of their QBs and Cleveland's 1st round pick this year to Denver, but that's very unlikely.