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Newton vs. Tebow

CarolinaCatBrigade

By CarolinaCatBrigade,
in Carolina Panthers

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

Posted
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Okay, so to get back on topic - measuring a QB by wins alone (especially a rookie QB) is foolish. Comparing two QB's on wins alone is foolish. The Golden Calf of Bristol plays like crap against the 2nd worst team in the NFL and barely gets the win, then he plays a good team and is buried, then he beats a so-so team with a gimmick offense, how does this compare to what Cam has done?

It's really hard to compare. Cam is in a totally different offense with better weapons at each and every skill position and a better offensive line. Offensively, we are better at all 10 other positions. We run a better scheme stat wise and have played many of the worst defenses in the league. The only top 10 defense we played Cam put up 150 yards, 50% and 1 TD, but it happened to be in a monsoon.

In other games Cam has put up a lot of yards, but not a lot of points. He's beaten 2 of the worst teams in the league and lost to everyone else.

I think he's better than The Golden Calf of Bristol (which isn't saying much) but it's just an opinion. They are in such different situations that it's very dumb to compare. It's similar to the Dalton argument.

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CatMan72 Enthusiast

CatMan72

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It's really hard to compare. Cam is in a totally different offense with better weapons at each and every skill position and a better offensive line. Offensively, we are better at all 10 other positions. We run a better scheme stat wise and have played many of the worst defenses in the league. The only top 10 defense we played Cam put up 150 yards, 50% and 1 TD, but it happened to be in a monsoon.

In other games Cam has put up a lot of yards, but not a lot of points. He's beaten 2 of the worst teams in the league and lost to everyone else.

I think he's better than The Golden Calf of Bristol (which isn't saying much) but it's just an opinion. They are in such different situations that it's very dumb to compare. It's similar to the Dalton argument.

It's hard to compare? :lol:

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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LOL, it's hard to compare? :lol:

I mean, it's easy for you to compare, you are a Cam fan. I'm don't think he's doing what Cam is doing in this offense, but it might be a discussion with guys like Mallet, Locker, Dalton, etc.

No one thought Anderson was any good yet he was a probowler in this offense and he didn't have near the weapons we do now. It's a huge matter of circumstance and hypotheticals which is why it's difficult to compare guys in two completely different systems with completely different talent levels around them.

I think most people would agree that Cam is better than The Golden Calf of Bristol, but in other situations (maybe some not involving Cam) comparing guys gets a little shady.

We tried to do it for years with Smitty. "man, if he had a QB, he'd put up 2,000 yard seasons no doubt" "He's way better than Fitz/Moss/Harrison/Megatron/AJ/etc because if he had their QB/System/2nd WR, he'd be killing it"

Just the nature of the beast I guess.

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CatMan72 Enthusiast

CatMan72

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I mean, it's easy for you to compare, you are a Cam fan. I'm don't think he's doing what Cam is doing in this offense, but it might be a discussion with guys like Mallet, Locker, Dalton, etc.

No one thought Anderson was any good yet he was a probowler in this offense and he didn't have near the weapons we do now. It's a huge matter of circumstance and hypotheticals which is why it's difficult to compare guys in two completely different systems with completely different talent levels around them.

I think most people would agree that Cam is better than The Golden Calf of Bristol, but in other situations (maybe some not involving Cam) comparing guys gets a little shady.

We tried to do it for years with Smitty. "man, if he had a QB, he'd put up 2,000 yard seasons no doubt" "He's way better than Fitz/Moss/Harrison/Megatron/AJ/etc because if he had their QB/System/2nd WR, he'd be killing it"

Just the nature of the beast I guess.

Shouldn't we wait for Mallet and Locker to play a regular season game?

Dalton is the only viable comparison since he's also a rookie, and when you get past the wins and look at what Dalton is being asked to do, there really is no comparison.

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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Shouldn't we wait for Mallet and Locker to play a regular season game?

Dalton is the only viable comparison since he's also a rookie, and when you get past the wins and look at what Dalton is being asked to do, there really is no comparison.

And that is exactly why it's hard to compare.

Dalton isn't being asked to throw for 300 yards a game. He might be capable but we don't know. All we know is that he does his job successfully. He also doesn't have the playmakers we have.

Just because he's not in the gun, throwing 40 times a game doesn't mean he can't, he's simply not being asked too. He's executing his game plan successfully and you can't knock him for that.

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WilliamsR Newbie

WilliamsR

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The Golden Calf of Bristol is no where near as good as Newton. His team has more wins b/c their defense has been able to keep them alive by stopping drives at key times in the game. Our defense has not done that. When we've needed a stop, we haven't been able to get it.

While our defense certainly let us down at times during the game, it's gotten teams of the field in order to give the offense a chance to be either tied or down by one score in the 4th. And it usually stepped up in the 4th quarter. We've averaged 2 possessions per 4th quarter with the game still within one score to go win the game before we finally got burnt.

Not sure how many more chances one would expect but there have been at least two games when the offense went for 20-25 minutes without scoring on at least 2 occasions I can remember off the top of my head.

We've had 14 possessions, all either tying or game winning opportunities, and we were successful on 1. I'm still trying to figure out how people can overlook this.

3 and outs go both ways.

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X-Clown Mentor

X-Clown

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It's really hard to compare. Cam is in a totally different offense with better weapons at each and every skill position and a better offensive line. Offensively, we are better at all 10 other positions. We run a better scheme stat wise and have played many of the worst defenses in the league. The only top 10 defense we played Cam put up 150 yards, 50% and 1 TD, but it happened to be in a monsoon.

In other games Cam has put up a lot of yards, but not a lot of points. He's beaten 2 of the worst teams in the league and lost to everyone else.

I think he's better than The Golden Calf of Bristol (which isn't saying much) but it's just an opinion. They are in such different situations that it's very dumb to compare. It's similar to the Dalton argument.

Checklist for "objective" posts from TRD about Cam as compared to any other QB

1. Throw one line of half hearted praise for what Cam has done so far to "prove" objectivity.

Check

2. Explain away any stats that are positive as just stats (i.e. it's because everyone else on the offense boosts up Cam, it's because he played bad defenses, etc)

Check

3. Point out wins as a stat that are attributable to QBs, but don't bring up other units that have quite a bit to do with wins as being part of what helps a team win games (i.e. special teams and defense)

Check

4. However, any random stat that is negative is important (i.e. the only top 10 defense he's played is the Jags and his stats weren't good in that game.)

Check

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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4. However, any random stat that is negative is important (i.e. the only top 10 defense he's played is the Jags and his stats weren't good in that game.)

Check

Please let the record show that I also noted it was in a monsoon in fairness to Cam, but don't let that ruin your fun.

Please continue.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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man I swear to god you guys go into posts deciding to read them a certain way. I did not see that TRD post as him going "LOL The Golden Calf of Bristol >>> CAM CAM SUCKS LOL" I saw it as him saying "This is why it's hard to directly compare Cam with anyone right now."

And he's right... All you can really say is that Cam has been playing way better than expected and looks to be a future star here. If we keep this offense together, we'll light the league on fire. That's not to say that we couldn't still have a good offense without the weapons we have now, but man, our entire offense is clicking so well... and that's with all the "rabble rabble legedu" stuff... I think we have plenty of praise to hand out, and Cam isn't the only one that deserves it so far on the offensive end.

Best part is, they can still get better.

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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X-Clown, what part do you disagree with?

Are we not better on offense at skill positions? Line? Scheme? Were the Jags not the only top 10 defense we played? Was it not in a monsoon? Were Cam's numbers not very pedestrian? Did he not beat the Jags and Skins (who haven't won a game with Beck and all the injuries)? Do you not think he is better than The Golden Calf of Bristol? Do you not think they are in different situations?

I'd love to know

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