A scary stat for the offense...

[WilliamsR]

So to put it very simply:

Don'ts:

Don't compare one team's offensive yards to another. You will not get accurate results.

Don't compare one team's offensive PPG to another . You will not get accurate results.

Don't compare one team's yards per point defense to another because that has more to do with the other offense's yards per point stat as well as your own offense's yards per point stat. You will not get accurate results.

Don't compare one team's defensive PPG versus another because that once again has to do with each teams offensive efficiency(offensive YPP)

Don't compare one team's overall takeaways to another team's overall takeaways because this has more to do with schedule and the other team's QB.

Do's:

Do compare one team's defense in yards per play(also known as YPP) with another team's yards per play defense. (TOTAL DEFENSE)

Do compare one team's offensive yards per point to another because that's both of their offensive stats stats combined and it results in scoring efficiency. It includes everything, special teams offense, offense penalties, etc. You will get accurate results.

Do compare one team's defense by forced fumble recoveries to another team's forced fumble recoveries. You will get accurate results.

Do compare one team's overall giveaways to another team's overall giveaways because this has everything to do with that team's offense. You will get accurate results.

[ed bell]

2. That is true. Not wrong. Turnovers is one the most important statistics next to winning and losing and YPP. So if we have more turnovers than the other team and an inefficient offense, the chance of losing is much greater. And it's nearly guaranteed to lead you to a losing record.

Turnovers are bad....not news...Cam has 9 INT's in 8 games...extra possessions in a game or more passing attempts don't equate to a greater probability of losing for this offense. I can't buy that.

[ed bell]

1. No. I'm not saying we should have less possessions. I'm saying we should have less pics and a more efficient offense if we want to have more possessions. As long as we continue to throw more pics, have an inefficient offense, and a high interception per pass ratio, then it doesn't do as any good to pass a lot. And yes it is better to have less possessions as long as the reason why we have that is because our run game works, and we are up on points, not because of penalties which are "stalling" drives or inefficient offenses.

Cam has two games with 3 INT's- GB and ATL. That leaves 3 INT's over six games......how much more improvement do you expect when you exclude these two games? See what happens when you start picking apart the stats at a game level versus a season average? Not minimizing the impact of them in the GB and ATL games, but to turn that into a pattern is untrue and wrong....yet you cling to all these like each game replicates the net result of the stats laid down beforehand. It doesn't work like that and you know it....

[Mage]

Why can't we all just agree Cam Newton is a good football player?

[DawgzLife]

99 out of 100 of us can.

[ed bell]

3. No because of an overall inefficient offense who can't score on the worst defenses in the league and because our defense is in fact putting them on the field more than people are giving them credit for. But the other reason why our defense is ranked so high in time of possession is because we face, overall, very efficient offenses who cut through our defense like butter and score fast. And one of the reasons other offenses have such great yards per point stats against our defense is because they don't have to travel as many yards to score a freaking point: special teams and offensive turnovers.e

This part is indicative of the dance you put on every time you try to convince everyone that you have some sort of enlightening insight nobody here understands...Let me distill this part of your post down: Our offense is on the field more because the defense is getting gashed quickly for points, yet our offense holds the ball longer without scoring. Our turnovers and Special Teams give teams a short field to work with resulting in easy scoring opportunities. In certain games I can agree with this, except we do score, but this is the first time I've seen you say the Defense gets gashed...which is what everyone's been saying....and it's putting a hamstring on our chances, just like many other parts of our overall performance.

This begs the question: why do you claim to have some sort of hidden insight that you think is eluding all the dedicated fans here that follow this team?

[WilliamsR]

You wanna find out where our defense stands against an average offense?

It's easy. Take your D and pit it against the league average, or just for fun let's compare an average offense in YPP that we played against. Atlanta's offense is ranked 15th in YPP.

Let's see how our defense did against Atlanta(17th in yards per play...Teeray's logic):

Atlanta's offensive yards per play: 5.4

We allowed: 325 yards

Total offensive plays for Atlanta: 93

Yards per play allowed by Carolina's defense: 3.49

3.49 yards per play is what our defense allowed that day.

Average defense in yards per play: 5.6

Baltimore, the number 1 defense allows 4.5 yards per play.

That would make us the #1 defense in the league. LOL. Our D was a beast that day.

Defensively in yards per game(total defense according to NFL.com): 8th in the NFL. We were 8th on that day.

Of course it's not that simple, because you would also have to re-rank all defenses by them facing an average offense for all games, or average league offense, to get an overall ranking. So this only works for that 1 day.

Atlanta had an inefficient yards per play number though, we do know that, so they were not an average offense on that day. They were below average. In fact they were ranked last in the NFL in yards per play that day(Jacksonville's 32nd offense gets 4.0). Which is why you don't look at yards per play for the offense. Because yards mean nothing since we still lost the game.

But it tells you something though. When our defense faces an average offense it makes them look bad and a lot worse than they are ranked in yards per play. It tells you our defense is overachieving.

Now explain to me why do pooty defenses make our offense look so bad? Is it because GB really has an overachieving defense like ours, or is it because we turned over the ball 4 times that day? Was it Charles Woodson being a pick master? Or was it Charles Woodson being a pickmaster of rookie QB's who throw a lot of picks? He knows how to bait rookies.

Let's keep going....and you will get your answer.

Yards per point does tell you something though. Atlanta's ranked 15th. Does our defense make them look worse in this category too? Let's find out.

Atlanta: 23.6 yards per point.

Against us they got: 10 yards per point. Meaning they only had to travel 10 yards for one point.

Making them look like the best ranked offense in the NFL.

So explain to me why we lost the game and why the "worst ranked offense in the NFL" in yards per play, which is what Teeray keeps blabbing on about, only had to travel 10 yards to get 1 point and got 31 points against the "#1 defense in the NFL" that day? Who was it that made atlanta look like the #1 offense in the NFL in yards per point that day?

Think that turnover in the 4th quarter in our end of the field had anything to do with it? Take away that 7 points and where would Atlanta rank?

They would have 24 points, so average. Which is what they are, an average offense.

But would we have won the game? No. Because our offense is so freaking inefficient even against their average defense, that they could only get 17 points that day. So even if WE HAD the #1 defense in the NFL overall, it makes no difference when your offense can't score. Because that day we did have the #1 defense in the NFL. And our offense could still only score 17 points.

Did our defense, the #1 defense in the NFL on that day" or #8 defense in the NFL" that day, depending on which defense ranking you go by, get an average amount of takeaways that day? League average is 1.5. Nope. They got 0. Because Matt Ryan didn't throw any picks. So once again, yards ranking has nothing to do with picks.

Did Atlanta's D get league average? Oh yeah and then some. They got 3 off of our rookie.

And even if you take 1 away at the end they still get 2, which is more than 1.5, which is the league average. It's even more than what their defense usually gets due to their schedule: 1.9.

Hmm....

So why is it that one a day when our defense is ranked # 8 in the NFL in total yards allowed per game, #1 in the NFL in yards per play, playing against a team that's ranked 32 in the NFL on offense in yards per play, the bad team gets 31 points and ranks first in yards per point and 3 interceptions while our #1 defense is ranked last or next to last in points per game?

That's a lot of logic to give an obvious answer, so I don't expect an answer.

[WilliamsR]

This part is indicative of the dance you put on every time you try to convince everyone that you have some sort of enlightening insight nobody here understands...Let me distill this part of your post down: Our offense is on the field more because the defense is getting gashed quickly for points, yet our offense holds the ball longer without scoring. Our turnovers and Special Teams give teams a short field to work with resulting in easy scoring opportunities. In certain games I can agree with this, except we do score, but this is the first time I've seen you say the Defense gets gashed...which is what everyone's been saying....and it's putting a hamstring on our chances, just like many other parts of our overall performance.

This begs the question: why do you claim to have some sort of hidden insight that you think is eluding all the dedicated fans here that follow this team?

Precisely! SO that makes our offense an inefficient offense. You just figured it out all on your own. See?

Why do I have insight? Because you don't carry it through to the end and you come out with a reversed and incorrect conclusion. See Atlanta example.

[teeray]

You wanna find out where our defense stands against an average offense?

It's easy. Take your D and pit it against the league average, or just for fun let's compare an average offense in YPP that we played against. Atlanta's offense is ranked 15th in YPP.

Let's see how our defense did against Atlanta(17th in yards per play):

Atlanta's offensive yards per play: 5.4

We allowed: 325 yards

Total offensive plays for Atlanta: 93

Yards per play allowed by Carolina's defense: 3.49

3.49 yards per play is what our defense allowed that day.

Average defense in yards per play: 5.6

Baltimore, the number 1 defense allows 4.5 yards per play.

That would make us the #1 defense in the league. LOL. Our D was a beast that day.

Defensively in yards per game(total defense according to NFL.com): 8th in the NFL. We were 8th on that day.

Of course it's not that simple, because you would also have to re-rank all defenses by them facing an average offense for all games, or average league offense, to get an overall ranking. So this only works for that 1 day.

Atlanta had an inefficient yards per play number though, we do know that, so they were not an average offense on that day. They were below average. In fact they were ranked last in the NFL in yards per play that day(Jacksonville's 32nd offense gets 4.0). Which is why you don't look at yards per play for the offense. Because yards mean nothing since we still lost the game.

But it tells you something though. When our defense faces an average offense it makes them look bad and a lot worse than they are ranked in yards per play. It tells you our defense is overachieving.

Now explain to me why do pooty defenses make our offense look so bad? Is it because GB really has an overachieving defense like ours, or is it because we turned over the ball 4 times that day? Was it Charles Woodson being a pick master? Or was it Charles Woodson being a pickmaster of rookie QB's who throw a lot of picks? He knows how to bait rookies.

Let's keep going....and you will get your answer.

Yards per point does tell you something though. Atlanta's ranked 15th. Does our defense make them look worse in this category too? Let's find out.

Atlanta: 23.6 yards per point.

Against us they got: 10 yards per point. Meaning they only had to travel 10 yards for one point.

Making them look like the best ranked offense in the NFL.

So explain to me why we lost the game and why the "worst ranked offense in the NFL" that day only had to travel 10 yards to get 1 point and got 31 points against the "#1 defense in the NFL" that day? Who was it that made atlanta look like the #1 offense in the NFL in yards per point that day?

Think that turnover in the 4th quarter in our end of the field had anything to do with it? Take away that 7 points and where would Atlanta rank?

They would have 24 points, so average. Which is what they are, an average offense.

But would we have won the game? No. Because our offense is so freaking inefficient even against their average defense, that they could only get 17 points that day. So even if WE HAD the #1 defense in the NFL overall, it makes no difference when your offense can't score. Because that day we did have the #1 defense in the NFL. And our offense could still only score 17 points.

Did our defense, the #1 defense in the NFL on that day" or #8 defense in the NFL" that day, depending on which defense ranking you go by, get an average amount of takeaways that day? League average is 1.5. Nope. They got 0. Because Matt Ryan didn't throw any picks. So once again, yards ranking has nothing to do with picks.

Did Atlanta's D get league average? Oh yeah and then some. They got 3 off of our rookie.

And even if you take 1 away at the end they still get 2, which is more than 1.5, which is the league average. It's even more than what their defense usually gets due to their schedule: 1.9.

Hmm....

So why is it that one a day when our defense is ranked # 8 in the NFL in total yards allowed per game, #1 in the NFL in yards per play, playing against a team that's ranked 32 in the NFL on offense in yards per play, the bad team gets 31 points and ranks first in yards per point and 3 interceptions while our #1 defense is ranked last in points per game?

That's a lot of logic to give an obvious answer, so I don't expect an answer.

OMFG!! Pretty glaring problem with your long winded post. Atlanta only had 58 total offensive plays on offense, not 93.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=311016001

So our defensive yards per play 5.6 not 3.49. Holy poo!! :rofl:

That looks even worse when you realize that 35 of those 58 plays were running plays!!

Yes. Our defense was awesome against Atlanta!! They "only" gave up points on five of Atlanta's 7 true possessions 4 of which were TDs and only one of which was a really short field. Against an "average" offense.

I will concede this. In the Atlanta game the turnovers hurt us in terms of winning the game. But our defense was really, really bad that day.

Awesome point PFFL!!!!! With an error like that I wouldn't want a response either!

You can't make this stuff up. :lol:

[WilliamsR]

Cam has two games with 3 INT's- GB and ATL. That leaves 3 INT's over six games......how much more improvement do you expect when you exclude these two games? See what happens when you start picking apart the stats at a game level versus a season average? Not minimizing the impact of them in the GB and ATL games, but to turn that into a pattern is untrue and wrong....yet you cling to all these like each game replicates the net result of the stats laid down beforehand. It doesn't work like that and you know it....

What doesn't work like that dude? I'm not nitpicking you think I actually did that before? I just applied my logic and teeray's logic to that one game just now. And it shows what I am saying is true. It has everything to do with offensive inefficiency and turnovers.

I didn't pick out a specific game. I picked out an average offense. Atlanta has an average offense. Pit our offense against an average defense and see what happens.

Atlanta has an average defense. So do the Saints. See what happens when they played the Jaguars, a top defense. And that's why I am right. Because it made no difference that we played a top defense against the Jaguars. We scored very few points but the difference was we played a worse ranked offense than us.

Same goes for GB. Our offense played against the 30th ranked defense. They could only get 21 points against the worst ranked defense. Offense to offense and turnovers. Compare that. That's who wins.

And we only beat the two teams ranked worse than us in offensive scoring efficiency: Jaguars(32nd) and Washington(27th). And the reason we beat Washington is because we put up 175 yards rushing on them and Cam didn't have to throw for 35 attempts.

But not even the top offense in the NFL, GB, #1 in scoring efficiency, could get more than what a top offense averages, 30 points even with 4 turnovers, against our defense. Think about that for a second. Top offenses average 30 ppg against the average defense in the NFL. Our defense is ranked slightly below average...and our offense gave them 4 turnovers and they could only get 30 points against our defense. What does that tell you about our defense?

When our offense gifts the #1 offense 4 turnovers, and our D can keep them all to 3 points or less, what does that say about our defense?

But even a freaking average offense, that's getting killed by our defense all day long, can drop 30 on our D, if they get the ball at their own 30 yard line so they get 7 easy points.

And the #10 ranked offense, Chicago...oh they can put 34 on our D alright. But the only reason they did....is because they got an even better gift: a Pick 6. Good for a guaranteed 7. Even with our D and special teams blowing it, they would have only had 27 if not for a pick 6. We would have won that game too. And only our O can be blamed for a pick 6.

We're the only ones who can't do that. When our D got our O a turnover in their end of the field. Our O blew it. Got nothing for it.

I can't ask our team not to giveaway more than 1.5 because I know that's average. I can ask Cam not to be ranked nearly last in interceptions. I can ask him not to be ranked nearly last in sacks. I can ask him not to be one of the worst ranked QB's in the league in the 4th quarter in comeback wins.

In fact that's ALL I really ask of Cam. Don't rank 68.0 and have a 50% or under completion ratio in the 4th quarter if you throw picks and are tied or down. Just don't do that part and we're good.

And if you can't do better than that under pressure, then don't throw a pick on our own end of the field so you put yourself in that position. Does that sound like too much to ask for?

Not to me.

And the one thing I ask of the fans is to stop blaming the defense. I promise you if we were freaking good in the 4th quarter and had we won our close games right now our D would be ranked in the top 10.

[ed bell]

Precisely! SO that makes our offense an inefficient offense. You just figured it out all on your own. See?

Why do I have insight? Because you don't carry it through to the end and you come out with a reversed and incorrect conclusion. See Atlanta example.

Selective highlighting....just like your thought process....shocker that you don't see the complete picture. I'm not surprised at all.

[ed bell]

You wanna find out where our defense stands against an average offense?

Watch an actual game instead of throwing selective stats from an incomplete season around?

[WilliamsR]

OMFG!! Pretty glaring problem with your long winded post. Atlanta only had 58 total offensive plays on offense, not 93.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=311016001

So our defensive yards per play 5.6 not 3.49. Holy poo!! :rofl:

That looks even worse when you realize that 35 of those 58 plays were running plays!!

Yes. Our defense was awesome against Atlanta!! They "only" gave up points on five of Atlanta's 7 true possessions 4 of which were TDs and only one of which was a really short field. Against an "average" offense.

I will concede this. In the Atlanta game the turnovers hurt us in terms of winning the game. But our defense was really, really bad that day.

Awesome point PFFL!!!!! With an error like that I wouldn't want a response either!

You can't make this stuff up. :lol:

Excuse me I added total plays with rushing plays by accident. just goes to show you I did it quick. That still tells you our defense was AVERAGE. So it actually fits perfectly! LMFAO. SO you just proved our defense is average. With your OWN numbers. Good job Teeray. I AGREE!!!

What does that say about our offense though? Why did our average defense look last in PPY against an average offense?

Why is that worse Teeray? Who the hell cares if they were run or pass. They are AVERAGE!

When our offense becomes average ....you can ask more from our defense. As long as our offense is ranked last in the league against an average offense there nothing to ask from our defense.

You understand?

I told you you keep proving yourself wrong with your own statements: 5.6 is exactly average. So our defense was average against an average offense. REALLY? But they are not ranked average in anything are they? They are ranked 18th, 29th, and 29th....

All thanks to our offense.

[WilliamsR]

Watch an actual game instead of throwing selective stats from an incomplete season around?

I do. I watch the same games you do. And I can see my offense blowing it in 7 of 8 games. Period.

That's what I see. With turnovers and 4th quarter play.