A scary stat for the offense...

[WilliamsR]

PFFL and TRD are not football fans or Panther fans. They are Matt Moore dickriders, this is there way of showing Matt they love him by making the fans of his former team pay! :lol: And belittling the historic season Cameron is having. Zod and the mods made a huge mistake even taking these dudes serious this past spring and defending their right to spew garbage under the guise "it isnt racism its logic!". It empowered their bullpoo, and now we're stuck with them here doing their best to tear down any positivity we have.

You are ignorant. How does that explain me saying I wanted Moore over Clausen? How does it explain me wanting VINCE YOUNG over CAM NEWTON? They are both fuging black. How does it explain me wanting Vince Young over Andrew Luck when people were still thinking we could get him? I wanted the black dude not the white QB superstar.

Logic says I am against rookie QB's, not black quarterbacks, because they are more prone to a team having a losing record. I wanted a young vet with some experience so we would win some games this year.

But if I had to play your stupid race card game, yes, I think on average a white QB is a much better passer, and it has less to do with the color of their skin, but more to do with the fact that they are less athletic, are more intelligent and less jock, and stick to one thing.

You see it doesn't matter if you are black or white when it comes to the QB position....FOOTBALL is a game of specialists at their positions. Any guy, even Ben Rothlesberger or Josh Freeman, that are big dual rushing QB's are going to be less accurate passers.

Wanna know why? Two reasons.

1. If I sit here all day and all I do is pass the fuging ball 24/7 I'm going to be a better passer than you, who also spends 25% of the time rushing. I specialize better in passing than you over the course of my career. I become an expert passer. My offense will also be built around this factor.

2. If you are a big QB, black or white, you're more prone to doing stupid things. And this also goes for white guys like Bret Farve too. You are not as afraid of taking a hit, so you sit there, take a hit and throw off your back foot, or try to pass on the run, being less accurate, or while getting hit making you throw a shitload of picks. Big dumb JOCK QB's who run, regardless or being white or black, aren't accurate passers. I'm not sure if Cam's a dumb jock though, but he's certainly a rusher.

So smaller QB's like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or older dudes like Drew Brees HAVE to become really good at getting rid of the ball, and being accurate. FEAR is a primary motivator. FEAR drives someone to do that. The fear of getting your lights knocked out.

But not so much fear where you are a total pussy and you crumble like Claussen.

So if you want to see a really good and accurate black quarterback at passing, look for a smaller dude, intelligent, who doesn't rush. The first black QB that comes out of college that does this has the best chances of being the first elite black Aaron Rodgers.

And the reason why that hasn't happened in the past 20 years, is not the fuging white man's fault. 50 years ago you could say it was race. But nobody's stopping smart, intelligent and athletic black guys who dedicate their lives to one thing, passing a football, from entering the NFL or college.

McNabb and Ben are like one and the same, regardless of the color of their skin. They are big dumb jocks and those guys are never going to be elite passers;)

Because believe it or not, SMARTS counts. And I'm not sure Clausen had either of these things. I think Cam has much more football sense than Clausen. But he falls under the athletic QB who rushes. So he's not specializing in passing. He has to give up rushing for life and start becoming afraid of getting hit...which is not going to happen in order to become an elite passer.

That's why Vick might have a better chance. He's starting to learn this now that his speed slowed down.

[DawgzLife]

But if I had to play your stupid race card game, yes, I think on average a white QB is a much better passer, and it has less to do with the color of their skin, but more to do with the fact that they are less athletic, are more intelligent and less jock, and stick to one thing.

I think you made a mistake buying into a premise, you said was false.

1. If I sit here all day and all I do is pass the fuging ball 24/7 I'm going to be a better passer than you, who also spends 25% of the time rushing. I specialize better in passing than you over the course of my career. I become an expert passer. My offense will also be built around this factor.

1. The design of the offense does matter, but passer accuarcy is not only an aquired skill set, some have it & some don't. Cam 'does' have 'It'.

2. If you are a big QB, black or white, you're more prone to doing stupid things. Big dumb JOCK QB's who run, regardless or being white or black, aren't accurate passers. I'm not sure if Cam's a dumb jock though, but he's certainly a rusher.

So smaller QB's like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or older dudes like Drew Brees HAVE to become really good at getting rid of the ball, and being accurate. FEAR is a primary motivator. FEAR drives someone to do that. The fear of getting your lights knocked out.

But not so much fear where you are a total pussy and you crumble like Claussen.

2. I don't think it has to do with size, but mental predisposition & skill set. Rothlesberger can run & Brees is accurate (skill set); some just feel they can run & help the team, so they get labeled scrambling QBs, while others know they can help the most by staying in the pocket. Tom Brady has great pocket mobility, but poor rushing ability. I certainly don't think 'fear' is the primary factor overall...Clausen is an example of FEAR (think scared running bunny who doen't have a clue where to go! ;)). Good example!

Cam has rushing ability, but he is not a running QB...running QBs tend to run right away, Cam is selctive & can sit in the pocket & make the big throws. He is certainly 'not' a dumb jock.

So if you want to see a really good and accurate black quarterback at passing, look for a smaller dude, intelligent, who doesn't rush. The first black QB that comes out of college that does this has the best chances of being the first elite black Aaron Rodgers.

Nope. Cam will be the first. Why? Because he is accurate & has a strong arm, not b/c he is or isn't scared or that he is or isn't black...I kind of think he is black tho...or has a great tan!

And the reason why that hasn't happened in the past 20 years, is not the fuging white man's fault. 50 years ago you could say it was race. But nobody's stopping smart, intelligent and athletic black guys who dedicate their lives to one thing, passing a football, from entering the NFL or college.

Yep. We need to get away from this racist crap. Cam is going to knock down even more barriers, but not b/c he is black, it's b/c the man can flat out play the game.

SMARTS counts..I think Cam has much more football sense than Clausen. But he falls under the athletic QB who rushes. So he's not specializing in passing. He has to give up rushing for life and start becoming afraid of getting hit...which is not going to happen in order to become an elite passer..

No. Cam need to play to HIS skill set, which includes both rushing, passing & leadership. He should not stop running, but should be smart about it. To become elite, he needs to stay alive & healthy.

That's why Vick might have a better chance. He's starting to learn this now that his speed slowed down.

Nope. As mentioned by you & me...Smarts matter...Vick is not that accurate 'consistently' & the big issue is that he is not a leader. An elite QB must be a leader...Cam is a leader!

[WilliamsR]

WilliamR, you are right that it is better to have less possessions with a higher rate of scoring success (paraphrase). The only way it would benefit us to score fast &/or often is if we had a D that could force a lot of turnovers.

I don't get the part about Cam & 4th quarter under pressure tho, he has performed well in those scenarios overall.

We do need to establish an effective running game tho, some ground & pound where we can run it, even when they know it's coming...I've not seen that out of this offense yet. We do have the players to make that happen tho.

I'm not overly concerned about Cam's INTs or his ability to get things done, but you are right about limiting possessions & running the ball effectively. Our D needs a lot of work & we need to get more possessions from them taking it away too.

Nice post!

We do have that type of defense though. We are tied for 8th in the only type of takeaway a defense can force! Forced Fumble Recoveries. We are better than Pittsburg's defense at forcing turnovers and better than half the defenses in the NFL.

How many of the other type we get is not so much up to the defense but more based on the opposing QB's interceptions per pass attempt ratio. Or the opponent's overall giveaway number.

People are under the wrong impression that our defense is bad at takeaways that a "beter defense" in yards allowed would also mean more takeaways. They don't. St Louis, 32nd ranked D kills us in takeaways as well as better defenses like Pittsburg. Why? They face interception machines.

And the 4th quarter argument comes from me breaking them down myself. Cam's completion ratio as well as QB rating drops to about 68.0 and 50% or UNDER when in comeback game situations. Our own defense has nothing to do with this.

It all comes from pressure. Most of that pressure comes from the media and stupid rookie labels as well as the fans and the expectations of winning. It's harder to win when you are expected to then when you are not. The pressure is much greater. Cam does know how to do this though. He did it in college. But the "greatest rookie ever" poo is getting to him. As well as NFL defense pressure in the 4th. That type of pressure is higher than anything he's faced in college.

He will probably never be an elite passer in the NFL as long as he's a dual rusher but he CAN be an ELITE QB regardless of his passing status. I just know he has little chance of ever becoming the first black Aaron Rodgers. But he does have the best chance of leading his team to a Perfect season. He has that type of ambition in him. The one thing about this dude, is that if he loses ONE game, it's like he failed for life. He's just gotta manage this better.

[King Taharqa]

Pantherfanforlife decides how far the goal posts get moved back depending on your complexion. Last year this time as we had the 32nd ranked offense...

One word: Underdog.

Maybe it's just me but one thing that always gets me emotional when it comes to sports, to athletes and certainly to the Panthers is when they accomplish a little more than just a win.

So when Matt Moore starts, its about more than just wins, its EMOTION. Put a black guy out there "all I care about is wins!". Years and years of empowering bullshit gets you fans like this, masters of doublespeak, say one thing, then lie outright the next.

And now here we are. The nobodys once again, being lead by another nobody. Mot of the fans don't even want him starting. And even more believe he won't even be here next year. He was passed over by an unproven rookie with a name this year, and has been passed over many, many times before in the past. Despite the fact that he won more games than lost as a starter on this team, he gets very little credit and is doubted by most.

Poor Matt! He's been passed over and taken advantage of! But dont worry Matt, Im gonna make those f**kers in Carolina pay! They will pay for getting rid of you! Im gonna put that Newton in his place for taking your job! You deserve to be the Panthers starter not him! Waaaaaah!!!! Waaaah!!!

Most around here already have labeled me as a Moore lover. Do I love him? No, I wouldn't go that far. But I do like him and I love the idea of him being another diamond in the rough.

So if you like a guy or relate to him, how he performs doesnt matter. You've got his back, you're willing to defend him when he plays as poorly as Matt did last year. Cameron Newton is putting up one of the best rookie seasons in memory but because you dont like him or cant relate to him in any capacity you thirst for his downfall. LOL.

And I really hope this guy comes out there and proves his doubters wrong. So do I support him with all my heart? You're GOD DAMN RIGHT I DO! Matt Moore fits this team and this team's history like a glove and because of that, this Sunday my heart's going to be 100% behind this guy and behind this team.

I'm excited! And if you are not, go screw a sheep!

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/47723-why-matt-moore-belongs-on-the-panthers-franchise.html

LMFAO!!! Did he prove his doubters wrong? Nope, he just made you and TRD look stupid. Matt let you down, but more importantly he let himself down when he lost his job to Cam Newton. He failed you PFFL, and you think staying here trying to convince us Cameron is the reason we're losing is gonna change that? I actually want you to stay because I want the other people on this board to know just how crazy you, TRD, Skew, and the other emos handle all of this. They need to see just how depressed and obsessive you guys are.

[Mage]

Cam Newton is a good football player.

[WilliamsR]

I think you made a mistake buying into a premise, you said was false.

1. The design of the offense does matter, but passer accuarcy is not only an aquired skill set, some have it & some don't. Cam 'does' have 'It'.

2. I don't think it has to do with size, but mental predisposition & skill set. Rothlesberger can run & Brees is accurate (skill set); some just feel they can run & help the team, so they get labeled scrambling QBs, while others know they can help the most by staying in the pocket. Tom Brady has great pocket mobility, but poor rushing ability. I certainly don't think 'fear' is the primary factor overall...Clausen is an example of FEAR (think scared running bunny who doen't have a clue where to go! ;)). Good example!

Cam has rushing ability, but he is not a running QB...running QBs tend to run right away, Cam is selctive & can sit in the pocket & make the big throws. He is certainly 'not' a dumb jock.

Nope. Cam will be the first. Why? Because he is accurate & has a strong arm, not b/c he is or isn't scared or that he is or isn't black...I kind of think he is black tho...or has a great tan!

Yep. We need to get away from this racist crap. Cam is going to knock down even more barriers, but not b/c he is black, it's b/c the man can flat out play the game.

No. Cam need to play to HIS skill set, which includes both rushing, passing & leadership. He should not stop running, but should be smart about it. To become elite, he needs to stay alive & healthy.

Nope. As mentioned by you & me...Smarts matter...Vick is not that accurate 'consistently' & the big issue is that he is not a leader. An elite QB must be a leader...Cam is a leader!

Dude I am not suggesting he should stop running, only if he wants to be a 67% consistent passer. We'll see if he ever becomes a consistent passer running this style offense. I say never.

I think it is impossible honestly. I do agree he has a great chance of becoming an elite QB, but he's not one yet, and he's not going to be an elite passer. Two very different things.

Vick is not "intelligent" I'll give you that. But fear can drive you to learn how to dissect NFL defenses. And Vick is pretty damn afraid this year. ;)

So you wanna make a bet? I bet you money that Cam Newton will never be a consistent 67% or higher passer in a dual rushing/passing style offensive system with a bad offensive line. It will never happen.

[teeray]

And the reason for that is holding penalties, offensive turnovers and sacks. Not defense because they are ranked 11th in time of possession.

So it's the offense's own damn fault they don't get enough possessions.

:lol: Overall time of possession has nothing to do with number of possessions :lol:

[DawgzLife]

We do have that type of defense though. We are tied for 8th in the only type of takeaway a defense can force! Forced Fumble Recoveries.

How many of the other type we get is not so much up to the defense but more based on the opposing QB's interceptions per pass attempt ratio. Or the opponent's overall giveaway number.

People are under the wrong impression that our defense is bad at takeaways that a "beter defense" in yards allowed would also mean more takeaways. They don't. St Louis, 32nd ranked D kills us in takeaways as well as better defenses like Pittsburg. Why? They face interception machines.

I don't understand this at all. You think it's only the offense's fault on INTs?! It is a D effort. DL push/pressure, coverage, LB pressure or zones, etc.

We may be 8th in fumbles, but we are 27th in INTs. We are the 3rd worst in the league in 3rd down percentage & middle of the pack in yards allowed.

We do not have a strong D in any way, IMO. We have some building blocks, but please explain how we are strong in D other than FF & FR.

[WilliamsR]

Pantherfanforlife decides how far the goal posts get moved back depending on your complexion. Last year this time as we had the 32nd ranked offense...

So when Matt Moore starts, its about more than just wins, its EMOTION. Put a black guy out there "all I care about is wins!". Years and years of empowering bullpoo gets you fans like this, masters of doublespeak, say one thing, then lie outright the next.

Poor Matt! He's been passed over and taken advantage of! But dont worry Matt, Im gonna make those f**kers in Carolina pay! They will pay for getting rid of you! Im gonna put that Newton in his place for taking your job! You deserve to be the Panthers starter not him! Waaaaaah!!!! Waaaah!!!

So if you like a guy or relate to him, how he performs doesnt matter. You've got his back, you're willing to defend him when he plays as poorly as Matt did last year. Cameron Newton is putting up one of the best rookie seasons in memory but because you dont like him or cant relate to him in any capacity you thirst for his downfall. LOL.

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/47723-why-matt-moore-belongs-on-the-panthers-franchise.html

LMFAO!!! Did he prove his doubters wrong? Nope, he just made you and TRD look stupid. Matt let you down, but more importantly he let himself down when he lost his job to Cam Newton. He failed you PFFL, and you think staying here trying to convince us Cameron is the reason we're losing is gonna change that? I actually want you to stay because I want the other people on this board to know just how crazy you, TRD, Skew, and the other emos handle all of this. They need to see just how depressed and obsessive you guys are.

No. Matt Moore was just a better QB than Clausen who also had a winning record with this team when he started last year. It was about that. Remember when all you dumb asses kept saying it didn't matter because the season was lost and not for playoffs when I kept pointing out that Matt had a winning record in 2009? Clausen sucked just as bad when we were out of the playoff race.

Matt Moore didn't fail me. The offensive line failed me. And most people think Clausen won the starting job? He was going through his concussion protocols like everyone else.

And all you said Matt Moore would be out of the NFL. Well he's not. He's starting in Miami with another poo offensive line.

Cam is the reason we are losing because he has a fuging 68.0 QB rating and a 50%-completion ratio in the 4th quarter when he needs to pass the ball more. Cam is the reason we are losing because when we get into the red zone he's not the best of passers, so Steve Smith only has 4 TD's despite having 918 while he has 7 rushing TD's.

That is why we are losing right now. Cam is the reason we are losing because when we get into the red zone he needs to let go of the ball faster, not get us holding penalties which get us out of scoring range.

That's why. NOT BECAUSE HE IS BLACK! You ignorant fool.

Matt Moore didn't make me look like a fool. He's starting this year when you said he wouldn't be. Just not in Carolina. Clausen made you ALL look like fools and you hate me for it. You all said Clausen is the future. Where the fug is Clausen now?

You can't freaking scout a QB for the life of you. You buy into hype not facts or what counts.

And again it's about emotion with Cam Newton too which is why again you all should read this:http://pantherstalk.com/index.php?news&nid=5_Carolina-Panthers-destiny-has-a-patriotic-connection-with-a-dynasty.

And so should Cam. We have the wrong type of emotion. Nobody gives a poo about you proving critics wrong! That's not going to get you wins. Proving you are the "greatest rookie who was criticized" when you are the #1 draft pick in the NFL isn't a very good and inspirational story or movement for a team to get behind. A 50+ million dollar contract doesn't scream "poor me". And obviously not an entire fan base. Cause half of Panther fans could give a rats ass about it if they are not winning.

[mav1234]

hmm, are the stats on ESPN *just* forced fumble recoveries? I thought they were fumble recoveries in general, including non forced.

[teeray]

And again it's about emotion with Cam Newton too which is why again you all should read this:http://pantherstalk.com/index.php?news&nid=5_Carolina-Panthers-destiny-has-a-patriotic-connection-with-a-dynasty.

Yes please read about our "dinasty" :lol:

[DawgzLife]

So you wanna make a bet? I bet you money that Cam Newton will never be a consistent 67% or higher passer in a dual rushing/passing style offensive system with a bad offensive line. It will never happen.

Ummm, Tom Brady has a career comp% of: 63.8%

1 of the most successful Qbs of alltime at under 64% & I'm going to bet on 67%?! Not a chance.

I will say he will be 1 of the top 10 QBs in regard to comp% & effeciency beginning next year. As a rookie, he is pressing a little too much, so this is a learning year.

Once he has a D that can create opportunities & limit the other O scoring (like a sieve), yes, Cam will be a top (elite) QB, IMO.

[DawgzLife]

hmm, are the stats on ESPN *just* forced fumble recoveries? I thought they were fumble recoveries in general, including non forced.

You are correct to point this out, b/c the NFL doesn't break those stats out. You would have to have an account on a site like profootballfocus to know if the D forced those.

[DawgzLife]

Cam is the reason we are losing because he has a fuging 68.0 QB rating and a 50%-completion ratio in the 4th quarter when he needs to pass the ball more. Cam is the reason we are losing because when we get into the red zone he's not the best of passers, so Steve Smith only has 4 TD's despite having 918 while he has 7 rushing TD's.

That is why we are losing right now. Cam is the reason we are losing because when we get into the red zone he needs to let go of the ball faster, not get us holding penalties which get us out of scoring range.

That's why. NOT BECAUSE HE IS BLACK! You ignorant fool.

Wow. I thought I was going to be part of a real & logical conversation about the Panthers...guess I should have read back a few pages first. Who exactly is too emotional?