A scary stat for the offense...

[Herb]

Solution to Carolina's problems: Have offense as good as Green Bay.

Would not be surprised at all if Cam puts up the kind of numbers Rodgers is now next season regarding TD's to picks.

[mav1234]

I think you are right, in that I just can't see our defense or special teams making huge improvements in the final 8 games.

Honestly I don't think we need *huge* improvements out of d/special teams to get some wins, we just need some. I personally think even if our defense was a little closer to "average" we'd have a couple more wins...

[mav1234]

Would not be surprised at all if Cam puts up the kind of numbers Rodgers is now next season regarding TD's to picks.

I would, and that is not meant as any slight towards Cam at all. What Rodgers is doing is crazy. he's got 26 TDs in 8 games (2 are rushing). He has a very real chance that he could break Brady's record.

[teeray]

I would, and that is not meant as any slight towards Cam at all. What Rodgers is doing is crazy. he's got 26 TDs in 8 games (2 are rushing). He has a very real chance that he could break Brady's record.

I have to say. Right now, it is Aaron Rodgers and then everyone else is a distant second. He has been by far the best QB in football this season.

[Marguide]

I have to say. Right now, it is Aaron Rodgers and then everyone else is a distant second. He has been by far the best QB in football this season.

What amazes me is how he can place his throws into such tight windows. He has a receiver corps that would be the envy of any other team, but keep in mind that defenses know that he will be throwing and he puts up ridiculous stats in spite of that.

If that team had a really good back, i.e. someone like J Stew or better, they would be unstoppable.

As a football fan watching a season like he is having, all you can do is sit back and enjoy the experience. I hate it that they beat us, but you have to respect what he does week after week after week.

[Razzy]

Bad D and ST don't usually put the offense in a good position.

[I am Hubby]

Bad D and ST don't usually put the offense in a good position.

I dig where you are coming from. Until our roster is on a par with the rest of the elite teams, we will continue to struggle.

[Marguide]

One more thought as long as we are talking about amazing seasons...

I really feel sorry for people like PFFL. Cam Newton is having not just the most incredible rookie season we have ever seen, he is having the most productive debut of any QB in history, superior to people like Otto Graham and other hall of famers.

As a football fan, if you can't savor this moment, there is something wrong with your perspective.

[WilliamsR]

We are 6th in the league in points per possession. If we were higher than 29th in the league in offensive possessions we would score plenty.

But our defense would have to get stops or turnovers in order for that to happen.

Oh yeah, and our defensive YPP has us ranked 29th so by PFFL's standard defense is still the main problem :lol:

Teeray you're a perfect example of why a hillbillie should never screw a sheep and let his child watch football. You should have watched soccer cause this game is just too much for you. That one is easy. The goal goes in or it doesn't.

Really like I have been trying, but I am at the point now where I don't think you can honestly follow it man. That's why you argue so much even in the face of just unreal amount of reason. I think you just don't have that ability. I'm really sorry for you and I'd like to apologize for all those other times I may have gotten angry at you. I think I finally realize now I've been arguing with someone that might be a little too young or a little....slow.

Helping Teeray learn logic. You see football, especially using football stats, does require some ability of stringing together more than one logical argument in your head. For example:

Part 1.

If the defense is ranked 11th in time of possession, and my offense is ranked 29th in possessions...this must mean my offense takes a long time with the ball.

So what you posted doesn't actually say anything about the defense to begin with if I only took into consideration the first stat I posted in the first place. If I also know that my offense is one of the worst in the league in penalties, I would know my reason of why they take such a long time with the ball, and why the have such few possessions.

And I would also know whose fault that is. And then I would understand that the stat you just posted, is not actually all that great for proving the defense is at fault, but rather you just argued against yourself with that one and in the same argument, unknowingly to yourself, or perhaps only others, you actually say things that prove me correct just about every time. And that's what makes arguing with you so pathetic.

But if you had slightly better logic, that would have been the LAST example to try to use to show how the defense is at fault because the only way you could, is if our defense was not ranked 11th in time possession. Or maybe you just chose to selectively ignore this part. And if you did that it goes back and proves what I said earlier. You're ignorant.

So yes. Our offense is atrocious in penalties and it is keeping itself from having even a league average amount of possessions because their drives take half an hour and the clock doesn't stop most of the time due to holding penalties. Now.....once you get that part down you can move on to part 2.

Part 2. Well whose fault that be yo? When you carry this entire string of logic through to its very end you would see that the reason the offense has so many penalties is because it also correlates to a quarterback who takes too long to throw the ball or trying to escape and that's what happens when offensive players try to hold back defenders from getting to him. They get called on penalties more often. Most of the times holds aren't mistakes. Players hold on purpose and know very well they are holding, on just about every play anyway. They just get caught when they have to do it for too long and it's too obvious. Most coaches teach players how to hold and try not to get caught.

And then you would also realize all of this makes even more sense when your quarterback is ranked pretty badly in sacks.

It confirms this logic you see? You understand? With me so far?

Football isn't "simple and plain". It's complex.

And the reason a quarterback has a lot of sacks is because he's not getting the ball out before the defender can sack him. And the fault on this, can only be placed on either one man, or one unit. An offensive line unit, an offensive lineman or a quarterback. None of which play for the defense.

But only an ignorant person or perhaps one who is selectively trying to influence his viewpoint, by ignoring other important stats that should be taken into consideration, would add up what you posted and have it somehow = defense.

Either that or someone who is actually very smart, and realizes a lot of other people don't have this much logic, and takes advantage of it by being a sarcastic little dumbass.

You're exactly the reason Steve Smith hates stats. Not because they are not useful. But because they are complicated and guys like you have no clue how to use them or better yet SKEW THEM. So they don't actually represent reality when you use them, because every time you use them, you use them to excuse an offense that's pretty bad at scoring points. Not to share with people what's really fuging happening.

And even after repeatedly being shown that defenses have very little to do with turnover margin, and there's no correlation between the ranking of a defense and their takeaways-which is why quite often bad defenses like St Louis Rams have more pics than the Steelers, while the Steelers have far less takeaways than us-you continue to use the terms as if no one explained it to you in the first place.

That is ignorance, or once again, you have an agenda to keep other people in ignorance. But people listen to you making statements such as those, for whatever reason. I think it's because denial is more comforting than actually facing problems and talking about it. And since we can't directly do anything about the problems of our team on the field, sometimes ignoring the problems make it seem like it works. And frankly considering the attitude towards me in this place lately, I think the best thing I can do....is let you keep talking, and let them keep listening.

Carry on.

But just in case you are not and you really are that ignorant or retarded, and if you want to cure it, what you really need to do is start here:

What is a football?

[Jangler]

I swear y'all argue about the stupidest not changing my life poo I have ever read.

oh yeah and tl;dr

[WilliamsR]

One more thought as long as we are talking about amazing seasons...

I really feel sorry for people like PFFL. Cam Newton is having not just the most incredible rookie season we have ever seen, he is having the most productive debut of any QB in history, superior to people like Otto Graham and other hall of famers.

As a football fan, if you can't savor this moment, there is something wrong with your perspective.

To you maybe. Where I'm sitting there's something wrong with yours. I wanna WIN! I don't watch the Panthers just for the QB. It was exciting the first 2 weeks. I wanna win. I want my team to beat the other team.

This is exactly why guys like you need to read this: http://pantherstalk.com/index.php?news&nid=5_Carolina-Panthers-destiny-has-a-patriotic-connection-with-a-dynasty.

Because what you are seeing now, is nothing compared to something like that. Nothing.

[jarhead]

Several time we have had penalties that took us fro 3rd and short to 3rd and long,Stop the penalties and turnovers and our offense is fine.

[teeray]

Teeray you're a perfect example of why a hillbillie should never screw a sheep and let his child watch football. You should have watched soccer cause this game is just too much for you. That one is easy. The goal goes in or it doesn't.

......

Wow. You get points for length. I will try to sum my point up in a concise manner like P55 did a few pages ago.

Football Outsiders DVOA rankings using advanced statistics for our team:

Offense: 6th

Defense: 31

Special Teams: 32

And I have tried to find anyone credible say that YPP is an exclusively offensive statistic. I can't. Most say something like this:

The Scoreability Index (YPP) is not purely an offensive yardstick. It is, instead, a great barometer of team success. It is a function of many team-wide factors, including general offensive strength, defense and special teams proficiency, turnover differential and Red Zone offense.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Quality_Standings.php

Or:

(Note: Scoreability counts ALL points, not just those generated by the offense. The scoreboard does not care how those points get there, only that they do. Well-coached teams score points as many ways as possible. Scoreabilty rewards teams for proficiency in all phases of the game; Bendability applies the same rules to defense.)

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/10/26/49ers.coaching/index.html#ixzz1dVIRshPK

So..... I am I don't really know what else to say that hasn't already been said.

Except you bring up Jake Delhomme a lot. A guy I also love and you always talk about that magical 2003 season as you should.

But what happened in 2004 when we started 1-7 losing several close games?? Did Jake suddenly forget how to close games?? Or in 2006 when 9 of his 11 int's came in the 4th quarter?? Was he just not clutch that year??

You trying to read anything into Cam not closing games after 8 games is just foolish. And all the other stats speak for themselves and you cannot dispute them.

Time to call it quits. I know you very badly want me to be wrong. I'm sorry that I am not. Go over to PanthersTalk. I am sure you would be considered really smart over there after reading that article you linked from it!! Enter the Jedi!! :lol:

[ed bell]

To you maybe. Where I'm sitting there's something wrong with yours. I wanna WIN! I don't watch the Panthers just for the QB. It was exciting the first 2 weeks. I wanna win. I want my team to beat the other team.

If you think folks don't care about winning, I don't know what to tell you. I'm sure Marguide does, but he is trying to point out that despite our record we are seeing an amazing rookie performance by our rookie QB. Cam is under a first year coaching staff, with a new offensive system and had truncated prep time due to the lockout. You don't acknowledge that, because you are too busy torturing statistics in the attempt to prove that Cam is failing to win games. While there have been struggles and Red Zone difficulties, that is part of the learning process for Cam and his coaches.

The defense is hurting big time from injuries to the top two leaders who were going to help compensate for the inexperience we were forced to field at DT when we lost Edwards. Net result there? We aren't getting the help from Defense needed to win these close games. They aren't responsible for the loses by themselves, but they most certainly played a significant role.

I can say that without screaming it from the rooftops and making the ridiculous claim that most people here just don't get it and it's up to me to show folks what's really going on.

You trying to read anything into Cam not closing games after 8 games is just foolish. And all the other stats speak for themselves and you cannot dispute them.

Nutshell right there.....to prove something you need an adequate sample size....the 2011 season to this point is not one.