Mike Mayock Talks Cam Newton

[fieryprophet]

I was more focused on the "staying out" part. Cam has never been a big party animal, doesn't spend his nights hanging in the clubs, has no posse, etc.

So why be more suspicious of him in this regard than any other prospect?

We've got to hand it to Cam in one regard: he has supreme confidence in himself, and the healthy ego to match. The key difference, however, is that he doesn't need to have a ground of hanger-ons and "yes" men surrounding him and reinforcing his self esteem. Most guys you see running around with a posse do so to try to sell the idea that they have swagger and that people "naturally" flock to them. Cam steps onto the field and forces people to accept that he is the best, but off of it, he really doesn't seem to want attention. His bye week goals were to sleep in, eat a bunch of cereal, and watch cartoons.

I hope he never changes, because if you start to see Cam succumbing to needing a bunch of fakers' approval and adulation, you know he's lost confidence in himself. I think most analysts fear was that Cam on the field has all the swagger and flash that a lot of prima-donna players claim for themselves; they just didn't realize how different his off-field persona was from that norm.

[teeray]

KT probably knows the answer to this question. ;)

But I still have a hard time understanding where this new narrative of "how is he going to handle success" bullpoo comes from. Anyone who has spent 5 minutes with this kid will tell you he has an unrivaled passion for the game of football and achieving greatness.

I just don't get it. There isn't a shred of evidence that says this guy is anymore susceptible to the trappings of fame and fortune than any other QB that comes into the league. Why is this such a concern for Cam Newton?

I'm more worried about these Southern California rich kids maintaining their drive to succeed than Cam Newton.

[rayzor]

it's about as close as it gets to him admitting he was wrong, i suppose.

pretty weak, but whatever.

yeah, he's pretty good at what he does and may be one of the best, but his opinion still should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Udogg]

KT probably knows the answer to this question. ;)

But I still have a hard time understanding where this new narrative of "how is he going to handle success" bullpoo comes from. Anyone who has spent 5 minutes with this kid will tell you he has an unrivaled passion for the game of football and achieving greatness.

I just don't get it. There isn't a shred of evidence that says this guy is anymore susceptible to the trappings of fame and fortune than any other QB that comes into the league. Why is this such a concern for Cam Newton?

I'm more worried about these Southern California rich kids maintaining their drive to succeed than Cam Newton.

It's obvious. Happens in all walks of life. I notice small things every day but if you say it you are "playing the race card". Let's just say some people consciously or sub consciously think once certain people get money they get grocery bags full of money and make it rain while drinking sizurp.

[Dpantherman]

KT probably knows the answer to this question. ;)

But I still have a hard time understanding where this new narrative of "how is he going to handle success" bullpoo comes from. Anyone who has spent 5 minutes with this kid will tell you he has an unrivaled passion for the game of football and achieving greatness.

I just don't get it. There isn't a shred of evidence that says this guy is anymore susceptible to the trappings of fame and fortune than any other QB that comes into the league. Why is this such a concern for Cam Newton?

I'm more worried about these Southern California rich kids maintaining their drive to succeed than Cam Newton.

I think its a combination of a number of things:

1) The media LOVES to blow things out of proportion and create talking points/ratings

2) Things get leaked from 'anonymous' sources now. Anyone can say anything behind a 'mask' (keyboard, etc) and it explodes. Look what happened to Warren Sapp, yea he made some mistakes, but the folks took those 'character issues' and ran with them. Not realizing that maybe this kid can play, and maybe he isn't that bad after all.

3) Stereotype-- look I'm not getting into the race (although we'd be ignorant to not acknowledge it). I believe will all my heart that it still matters, but in no way to the same degree. The stigma of being a 'running QB' taints a lot of guys. Some guys with the label don't even get a shot because of it. Trent Dilfer has been beating this drum for weeks now, and I agree w/ him.

[Dpantherman]

tl;dr ....DP you don't know what you be talkin' bout. (grammar for JOAT)

[fieryprophet]

It's obvious. Happens in all walks of life. I notice small things every day but if you say it you are "playing the race card". Let's just say some people consciously or sub consciously think once certain people get money they get grocery bags full of money and make it rain while drinking sizurp.

As opposed to certain people getting money and throwing massive boozefest frat parties with porn stars and blow?

Ryan Mallet got skewered this draft as well, and one can't discount the effect that Cam's dad had, especially since he admitted his improprieties. It's unfortunate how much Cam had to suffer because of his father's actions, but that's the way the media works.

[Woodie]

I hope Luck does well, but something that irks me is that the kid does have some very clear flaws that don't get mentioned due to draftniks not wanting to upset some sort of hypewagon:

1.) His arm strength is good, but not elite. This is what Simms was addressing that everyone seemed to think meant that Luck couldn't throw it deep, even though he can. It's not that Luck can't throw deep, it's that he can't throw deep with speed. The ball typically floats.

2.) His offensive line is elite, but he still tends to bail on the pocket even when the pressure isn't there. Everyone remarks about his scrambling and ability to throw on the run, but frankly, we shouldn't see this as often as we do. His pocket presence still needs work.

3.) He doesn't read defenses anywhere near as advertised. I've watched a lot of his footage, and there are a lot of wide open players catching his passes, and a lot of instances where he locks onto his first read. His pick-six against USC was a perfect example of where he locked onto his read and telegraphed the throw with his eyes. People confuse the pro-style scheme he operates as meaning he can diagnoses defenses, when the reality is that he plays terrible defensive teams and the scheme puts his best players into good physical matchups.

Someone needs to upset the Luck apple cart a little bit more, because the kid is being set up to fail. There's no way he's going to be able to immediately produce on Peyton Manning's level, yet everyone is acting like the Colts can just plug him in and return to their previous form, which is utterly ludicrous and just places unnecessary pressure on the kid.

Well, I've seen several of Luck's games, not just footage, and his hype truely is warranted. The kid has everything you could want in a QB. Anyway, here's some counterpoints to your issues:

1. His arm strength is not Cam or Vick elite, but it is plenty to make every throw he'll need to in the NFL. It's funny you mentioned Simms, because Steve Young was asked about what Simms said and basically laughed him off. He said he's seen almost every game Luck has played the last two years and there is absolutely no question he has more than enough arm. And from what I've seen, Steve is spot on. And I think you are mistaking touch with floating. When he's throwing the ball up, he's actually placing it in a spot where only his receiver can run under it to make the catch. But I've also seen him make plenty of downfield throws with a lot of zip. He just does what he needs to to put his receiver in the best position to make the catch.

2. Yes, his offensive line is elite, but saying he bails in the face of pressure tells me that you haven't actually watched many full games of his. While he doesn't get the constant pressure that some QB's have to deal with because his line is so good, he does do a very good job of standing in the pocket and letting the play develop when there is pressure. But he also has great feel back there and is very good at moving around to buy time. His pocket presence is actually a huge strength of his.

3. Sorry, but this is another instance of you showing you haven't watched many of his games. During pretty much every game I see, at some point the anouncers will break down exactly what he is doing, and show in replays just how well he goes through his progressions and is able to recognize where the ball should go. They'll also show how he sets defenses up and recognizes what the defense is doing and audibles to a better play to counter the defence.

I just find it funny that so many here are so insecure that they need to try and minimize just how good Luck is. The reality is that he is as advertised, but that in no way takes away from Cam or means that we missed out. In fact, I see those two being the Brady/Manning of their generation...six of one half dozen of the other. Whoever gets Luck is going to be a very happy team, just like we're very happy with Cam.

Now Luck still has to come in and show it at the NFL level, but that goes for every college prospect. However, based on everything he brings to the table, both on and off the field, I'd be very surprised if he didn't become a very good starter. Just how good depends on a lot of factors such as what kind of talent he is surrounded with and injuries. But he should be good.

[Marguide]

I just find it funny that so many here are so insecure that they need to try and minimize just how good Luck is. The reality is that he is as advertised, but that in no way takes away from Cam or means that we missed out. In fact, I see those two being the Brady/Manning of their generation...six of one half dozen of the other. Whoever gets Luck is going to be a very happy team, just like we're very happy with Cam.

I don't think anyone on here doubts that Luck will be good. The point is, the hype on him has reached ridiculous proportions, and it is not fair to him or anyone else.

I listen to a lot of ESPN radio, and last week, you couldn't go an hour without someone talking about how great Luck will be in the NFL. For any college kid, that qualifies as hype.

He is now going to face unrealistic expectations before he sets foot on an NFL field. It is almost the reverse of what Cam faced.

The criticism Cam received wasn't fair, and neither is the over-hyping of Andrew. The media is what should be criticized, not either of these two young men.

[Grammer]

Well, I've seen several of Luck's games, not just footage, and his hype truely is warranted. The kid has everything you could want in a QB. Anyway, here's some counterpoints to your issues:

1. His arm strength is not Cam or Vick elite, but it is plenty to make every throw he'll need to in the NFL. It's funny you mentioned Simms, because Steve Young was asked about what Simms said and basically laughed him off. He said he's seen almost every game Luck has played the last two years and there is absolutely no question he has more than enough arm. And from what I've seen, Steve is spot on. And I think you are mistaking touch with floating. When he's throwing the ball up, he's actually placing it in a spot where only his receiver can run under it to make the catch. But I've also seen him make plenty of downfield throws with a lot of zip. He just does what he needs to to put his receiver in the best position to make the catch.

2. Yes, his offensive line is elite, but saying he bails in the face of pressure tells me that you haven't actually watched many full games of his. While he doesn't get the constant pressure that some QB's have to deal with because his line is so good, he does do a very good job of standing in the pocket and letting the play develop when there is pressure. But he also has great feel back there and is very good at moving around to buy time. His pocket presence is actually a huge strength of his.

3. Sorry, but this is another instance of you showing you haven't watched many of his games. During pretty much every game I see, at some point the anouncers will break down exactly what he is doing, and show in replays just how well he goes through his progressions and is able to recognize where the ball should go. They'll also show how he sets defenses up and recognizes what the defense is doing and audibles to a better play to counter the defence.

I just find it funny that so many here are so insecure that they need to try and minimize just how good Luck is. The reality is that he is as advertised, but that in no way takes away from Cam or means that we missed out. In fact, I see those two being the Brady/Manning of their generation...six of one half dozen of the other. Whoever gets Luck is going to be a very happy team, just like we're very happy with Cam.

Now Luck still has to come in and show it at the NFL level, but that goes for every college prospect. However, based on everything he brings to the table, both on and off the field, I'd be very surprised if he didn't become a very good starter. Just how good depends on a lot of factors such as what kind of talent he is surrounded with and injuries. But he should be good.

but dood he dissed the panthers so obviously he will be doomed to suck

dont bring ur logic in here :jc::jc::jc::jc::jc:

[fieryprophet]

1. I'm quite sure he will be able to make NFL quality throws at the next level. However, 50 yards downfield, on a laser? No. He'll rarely have to, however. And floating is not touch. If he has to throw with such finesse at the NFl level cornerbacks will be dancing for joy, because unlike the Pac-12, most teams have cornerbacks that can actually cover and recover on slow throws. And he does have a few slowballs a game.

2. I absolutely disagree. His pocket presence is average, at best. He often slides sideways rather than stepping up, and any pressure up the middle usually sends him running. He has great ability to set his feet even when he's out of position, but it is not the same as working from a muddy pocket.

3. The announcers typically get their assessments of what is going on completely wrong, doesn't matter who they are breaking down. I know what I've seen, and I've watched a lot of Andrew Luck. He's ahead of the vats majority of college QB's, but putting him anywhere near the level of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady is ludicrous. He may grow into that, but I simply don't see anything that would be the bare minimum of achievement for a serviceable NFL backup. For one thing, he's rarely faced with competent defenses, and about the only thing he manages to distinguish between is man/zone coverage. That is not high-level NFL quarterbacking, merely great college quarterbacking.

I just find it funny that so many here are so insecure that they need to try and minimize just how good Luck is. The reality is that he is as advertised, but that in no way takes away from Cam or means that we missed out. In fact, I see those two being the Brady/Manning of their generation...six of one half dozen of the other. Whoever gets Luck is going to be a very happy team, just like we're very happy with Cam.

Don't play the "minimizing" angle on Luck. I call it exactly as I see it, and right now, I see hype. Hype based on a LOT of good potential, but hype nonetheless. I take the opinion that every single prospect has a more than 50% chance of failing at the next level, no matter who they are. So don't pull that bullpoo.

What has happened with Luck is that a very good college QB, with around 5-10% better skillset than most high level college QBs, has aroused a lot of scouting and fan hype just because that difference looks so much better compared to the typically poor quarterbacking skills of most college QBs. But at the NFL level, even the bums would dominate at the college level if they were sent back down, because they've had to adapt to a faster game with much smaller windows.

I will be completely honest: the more people say that he is a "can't-miss" prospect, the more I want to find a prop bet that let's me bet he'll be a flop. Not because of anything he's done, but because I long ago learned to dismiss groupthink, particularly when it filters down to the masses. Everyone said Cam would struggle, couldn't work from a pocket, and would destroy the franchise. When's the last time a "can't-miss" prospect actually dominated? Frankly, I don't even see Peyton Manning has having truly fulfilled his potential, considering his only Super Bowl came against a overachieving Bears team.

[Woodie]

it's about as close as it gets to him admitting he was wrong, i suppose.

pretty weak, but whatever.

yeah, he's pretty good at what he does and may be one of the best, but his opinion still should be taken with a grain of salt.

Actually, I don't see it as an admission in any way that he was wrong. In fact, it's just the opposite. Mayock has been very consistent on Cam. He has always said he doesn't question Cam's physical ability, but he just isn't sold that Cam will put in whatever it takes to meet his great potential. So now, while he is saying that he is very impressed by everything Cam has done (and I'm reading that he's talking as much about the work that he's put in as much as his performance), he wants to see it continue over the long haul.

[mav1234]

He is now going to face unrealistic expectations before he sets foot on an NFL field. It is almost the reverse of what Cam faced.

amusingly enough, people are going to expect him to do better than Cam now and because Cam has done so well, it is highly improbable Luck will live up to that hype considering where he is likely to get drafted.

[Woodie]

I don't think anyone on here doubts that Luck will be good. The point is, the hype on him has reached ridiculous proportions, and it is not fair to him or anyone else.

I listen to a lot of ESPN radio, and last week, you couldn't go an hour without someone talking about how great Luck will be in the NFL. For any college kid, that qualifies as hype.

He is now going to face unrealistic expectations before he sets foot on an NFL field. It is almost the reverse of what Cam faced.

The criticism Cam received wasn't fair, and neither is the over-hyping of Andrew. The media is what should be criticized, not either of these two young men.

Now I'll agree with this. The expectations on him are so great that there is no way anyone could live up to it. Even as well as Cam is playing, he's not living up to the unreasonable expectations some have for Luck. And while I think he will have a good rookie year, people expecting Peyton Manning will be disappointed.

And I do understand some of this is backlash to hearing about him so much. But the funny thing is that I know people elsewhere who say the same thing about Cam. They say you can't hardly watch any football show without them talking about the greatness of Cam. So I think a lot of it is perspective. And my issue isn't with those that are just sick of hearing about him, but those that are trying to downplay how good he is simply because of that, thinking that he's stealing some of Cam's thunder, resentful of him spurning us last year (which I don't think had anything to do with the Panthers), or whatever.

Luck is a great college football player that should be a great pro, and I think we are fortunate to have someone that can be just as great on our team. But Luck truly has it all, so everyone is all gaga over him. After all, it's extremely rare for a college kid to have all the tools so buttoned up. The ironic thing is that if Auburn allowed Cam to do what we are having him do, I think we would have heard similar things about him. He just came from an offense that was considered gimmicky and required him to run half the time. So there were so many unknowns about Cam.