Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.

[Pantherball]

That wasn't me, my friend. I am the one trying to refute the town idiot's numbers.

Cam Newton is the town idiot?

[CRA]

you are wasting your time arguing Cam is the reason we aren't winning games.

we are wasting oru team arguing with you.

Look at the D and ST......you will find your answers right there. Each and every week.....

[RealisticFan]

:out:

Wrong! You are mixing numbers and are using something different than what we were just talking about. You are using his total 4th quarter rating, 89, including garbage time when the game is lost or when we are up. We were talking about comeback wins or game winning drives. His QB rating when tied or down in the 4th quarter and trying to win the game is 60.0 NOT 89.

His Garbage time rating is 102.0 in the 4th quarter. That's when we can no longer win the game if we score. At this point we're losing by 8 or more.

But why is he an 89.6 in the first 3 quarters, 60.0 in a tied or close game in the 4th quarter before the game is out of reach and 102 after the game is lost? What do you attribute that to?

Why out of 14 offensive possession in the 4th quarter he only succeeded 1 time?

So talk about that. Or if you don't want to talk about it at least do yourself a favor and acknowledge it!

Little Jimmy Clausen, is that you?

No, Jimmy, no, you cannot play QB again.

Now give it up, get off the internet and go to your room.

Silly Jimmy:frown2:

:rofl::nono:

:jc:

[Marguide]

Yes I do. I get that Cam Newton is good in the first 3. I do look at that. I also notice he crumbles in the 4th. And the numbers are from ESPN but you're not going to find the breakdown I did without paying someone money to get it, or getting some sort of insider service because I took the time and crunched everything game by game. Search for advanced statistics and you may get lucky but most of what you'll find in public domain will be about Brady or Manning. No one's crunched numbers on Cam just yet.

But that alone is not an indication of a HOF QB. That is an indication of a good QB. There are many good QB's but what actually separates good QB's from great QB's are those statistics I mentioned as well as winning close games and getting good at winning your share of comeback wins , which also separates winners from losers.

It's unreasonable to assume that he would be leading the league if he did that because he's not even average in that category. Cam's not that great statistically outside of yardage compared to other QB's right now. He's average. But he's just plain awful in that one so he could simply be average in that department and without having to do the "impossible". Like Dalton for example which beats him in every QB category except rushing and yards. And Dalton's average too.

And btw, I'm not bashing him. I'm just pointing out the numbers. It's not bashing. The numbers are bashing him. He's bashing himself.

These advanced stats you conjured up must be the same ones you use to show Dalton is outperforming Newton. "Cause it's not rating, it's not TD's, it's not yards. Dalton is a fine young QB, but he cannot hold Newton's jock when comparing performance on the field.

[panthers55]

The problem with this is that at one point Derek Anderson would be considered a top 5 QB? You have to take more than stats into it. I know you guys hate watching football games and love fantasy football and he's been great for that, but the game is more than stats.

Derek Anderson was an elite QB, got replaced by Brady Quinn, who is now 3rd string behind The Golden Calf of Bristol and Kyle Orton.

#Perspective

What you are doing here is mixing things up all over the place and considering it logic. If Derek Anderson finished in the top 5 of quarterbacks in a year then he is a top 5 quarterback. He finished 9th in yards in 2007 but 15-20th in most other categories. You would know that if you pay attention to the facts.

Each season is a separate season with different guys shining or struggling. For example is Rivers a top 5 quarterback or not? In past years he was but this year he isn't. And this whole idea that watching a guy play and forming an opinion that is more important than facts and stats is ridiculous. The facts are the facts. What you can argue is the interpretation of the facts but the numbers themselves are irrefutable.

[teeray]

Pantherball you really are stretching reality with this pithy argument. And frankly it is all you and guys like TRD have left.

If you think what you are saying is reality and that he crumbles with the game on the line, you are literally too stupid to debate.

If the over analyzing a rookie QB and cherry picking statistics is the best you can do then you have already lost.

Cam deserves everything that has come his way in terms of praise and I would take him 10/10 times right now over any QB in the NFL because Cam is elite and is still trying to figure things out. Imagine, it takes most QBs actually about three years of game experience before they truly feel comfortable. Cam is only half a season in :eek:. Wait until his head stops spinning.

As for Dalton. I only wish we could have played the Broncos, Buffalo, Cleveland, Seattle, San Francisco, Jacksonville, and Indy. We would be 5-2 also. That is why trying to compare W-L is for simple minded people who can't figure things out for themselves so they need something easy that they can comprehend.

[HoFBound90]

He is right around the #5. Stafford and Rivers could be in the conversation as well.

The fact that cam has not got more attention is embarrassing. The rookie is putting up numbers better than 90% (estimation because I haven't done the math on every single statistic) of the veteran qbs in the league. On top of that he has shown heart and leadership beyonfd the majority of veteran starting qbs. But all we hear about is tim teboew, and even though he is a terrible qb and any smart person knew he would be, america loves a good ol fashioned white hope, religion loving guy.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

good thing we have that awesome 4th quarter defense to cover up all of cam's dumbass rookie mistakes

[HoFBound90]

ya people who are blaming cam for the 4th qtr really know nothing about football or are trolls.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

Pantherball you really are stretching reality with this pithy argument. And frankly it is all you and guys like TRD have left.

If you think what you are saying is reality and that he crumbles with the game on the line, you are literally too stupid to debate.

If the over analyzing a rookie QB and cherry picking statistics is the best you can do then you have already lost.

Cam deserves everything that has come his way in terms of praise and I would take him 10/10 times right now over any QB in the NFL because Cam is elite and is still trying to figure things out. Imagine, it takes most QBs actually about three years of game experience before they truly feel comfortable. Cam is only half a season in :eek:. Wait until his head stops spinning.

As for Dalton. I only wish we could have played the Broncos, Buffalo, Cleveland, Seattle, San Francisco, Jacksonville, and Indy. We would be 5-2 also. That is why trying to compare W-L is for simple minded people who can't figure things out for themselves so they need something easy that they can comprehend.

QBs don't play like Cam until they're approaching 30. I've always thought a qbs best years were 28-34.

[the butch]

ya people who are blaming cam for the 4th qtr really know nothing about football or are trolls.

props for lupe

[BBQ&Beer]

Pantherball you really are stretching reality with this pithy argument. And frankly it is all you and guys like TRD have left.

Sadly no. At least not imo. Too butthurt the guys they wanted didn't get picked & too sure Cam would be a bust.

I'm guessing they were gearing up to rip Cam that first game &.... damn... Cam was a beast. Then they were sure it wouldn't happen again &... WTF?... so now they are pointing at the W/L record & (lol!) "not having game winning drives in our losses like true greats" as evidence of his being a bust.

When the wins come, people like that will point to the playoffs. Playoffs come? The Super Bowl. Super Bowl? "pfffft! He only won one."

Granted if we get multiple SBs they'll finally remember the team & insist they carried him.

[SmootsDaddy89]

pantherball types like a drunk motivational speaker who keeps putting emphasis on the wrong words.

[Pantherball]

I'm going to hit on these simply b/c I don't give a poo to read the rest of your post.

1. Doesn't tell the entire story about how well cam has played. QBR isn't factoring in his escape ability or his rushing TD's. Factoring in yards and rushing TD's cam's total QBR jumps to 99.

2. He's over 60%. His receivers at times haven't been that gracious to him in that department either. Either way, you can't argue this statistic when he's over the 60 threshold.

3. Winning percentage isn't a QB stat. This isn't baseball and cam's not a pitcher.

4. He sits currently 2nd in the league in passing yards. I fail to see how you can even argue that. Considering that stat isn't even after you factor in his total yards.

5. This hits on point #1. Dude has 18 total TD's and 9 Ints and 0 int's in the past 2 games.

6. 4th and 14, 4th and 14, 4th and 14. This was a big boy play that cam splooged all over. Gaming winning drive against the jags came in the 4th. Do we even need to mention the second half of the redskins game? Even last week's potential game winning drive was in the 4th on a "comeback" where things outside of this clutch gene I hear about or cam has any control over. Unless cam blocks for himself, refs his own games, and kicks field goals too. If that's the case the panthers are severely under paying this kid. His play already versus what other surrounding QB's are making; it's evident. Cam's base salary this year is $375,000.

This is what makes you stupid. The fact you're already pinning the entire team's success on him in as little as 8 weeks is simple proof this guy is busting nuts on his entrance into the league. It's not cam's game that is contributing to the majority of the losses.

1. No but it does tell me why we can't win any of our close games. Because this drops to garbage in the 4th quarter when tied or down. Escape ability: 24th in sacks. Yeah, maybe it was so in the first 2 games but it's gone downhill. Things have changed. And receivers? He's throwing to Steve Smith! As it stands he's 13th. Not top 5.

2. So are 18 other guys including Andy Dalton, the other rookie who is ranked higher. So he's 18th in this category, not in the top 5.

3. Perhaps not directly, but it does matter and last time I checked it's what matters most and what gets you benched the most quickly when it goes bad. Certainly not top 5.

4. I didn't argue it but I just might after your comments earlier. He's great here but keep in mind he's currently 2nd due to an artificial increase from other QB's having a bye week. He's 5th in yards per game and he's going to drop back down come next week. I find it ironical that you are saying his QB rating is due to his receivers not being good to him but say nothing about the fact he's also throwing to the leading receiver in this category, Steve Smith, #1 in the NFL this year in yards with 918 of them and #1 in yards per attempt(20.0 is more than twice Cam's average), who has bailed him out of some pretty bad throws and turned them into gold and huge yardage for him. People say Cam makes Smith look good. A crock of poo! This is not the first time Smith has made one of our QB's look good as long as they can put the ball up. Who also happens to have an uncharacteristic low TD number compared to his yards....hmm....might have something to do with your next point.

5. If you include rushing TD's you should include fumbles and call it turn overs, so he's 18 for 11. Because those do go on a rusher's stat card. And he has had 2 fumbles in his past game. However, 9 interception still puts him at 29th in the league. Also, Steve Smith, #1 receiver in the NFL midway through a season is only good for 4 TD's or is there more to this story? Just another dude who calls himself a Panther fan that doesn't credit on of our proven, truly elite, playmakers. Smith has made Cam look good in yards and also in rushing TD's at the expense of his stat sheet. He does the work, Cam gets the score and Smith backs his rookie up. Also his 9 interceptions puts him at 29th in the league. Which means he's not accurate enough to throw for as often as he does.

6. Clutch play, clutch QB. clutch play, clutch drives. clutch play, 4th quarter. clutch play, clutch win. Consistency vs inconsistency. There isn't a single NFL QB alive that has not had a clutch play in his career. Clausen has clutch plays. One play does not make you clutch when you are 60.0 overall in the 4th quarter when trying to post a comeback win or comeback drive.

So let's recap his passer ratings:

QB rating: 13th

Yards: 2nd(He's still 5th in yards per game so this is an artificial increase until next week. He's been dropping and he's going to drop back down after our bye week)

Completion percentage: 18th

TD's: 13th

Sacks 24th (Let's talk about this for a second: He's NOT escaping. What's happening is he's holding on to the ball too long because he's also looking to run which also puts this offense last in holding penalties)

Interceptions: 29th

He's average or nearly last in every passing statistical category except yards or TD if you include his rushing TD's. He's ranked 1st in QB rushing statistics! So what does that really mean?

In plain English: He's shown he's an average passer and top rusher for a QB. So much for a pass first QB.

Now maybe in some people's eyes having a 1st in rushing and average to last in passing statistics means a top 5 QB, but to me when you combine all of these things with a 1/14 or 7% success ratio in 4th quarter comeback or winning drives and a 2-6 record which is a direct result of that, it says otherwise.

And I'm going to respond to the rest of it because it was a direct insult and there was no need for that. What makes you stupid, is that you're buying into hype far too early and buying into a lot of hype instead of holding back and seeing if things are what they appear to be. And don't know poo about how to rate a QB. What makes you stupid is that once again you follow the crowd who fails to see how many other players on this team are doing their best trying to help Cam succeed playing his style. What makes you stupid is failing to see how many veteran players are sacrificing their roles and their positions including our receivers like Naanee and running backs like Dwill and Stewart blocking for him just to help Cam play his game and are also making Cam look really good. What makes you stupid is that you fail to see how a guy ranked 29th in the league in interceptions and turnovers is making our defense look bad! What makes you stupid is that you believe everything is on Cam's shoulders when in fact it's just the offense. If it is then, I am correct and we have a coaching issue. He's not being asked to do anything different than all the other QB's in this league including rookies like Andy Dalton, who is doing it much better or Blaine Gabbert so please spare me. He's just better at it than one and not as good as the other. We are however asking our veteran players to do things differently to help out Cam Newton.

So please do me a favor, and don't call me stupid.