Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.

[Pantherball]

I'd say all in all, Cam may not be statistically Top 5 in the NFL right now when it comes to Rating or Completion %, but anyone who has watched him for even just a couple of games can see why an argument is being made why he is a top 5 talent already. Overhyped? I'd say not hyped enough.

And anyone who has watched him play can see he's a terrific scrambler, a good passer, makes play with his feet but so far none of those things lead to winning consistently. They also had to sit through this painful part that you did a good job spinning: He drove, sometimes other times we were just 3 and out, including yesterday, but failed to score any points in 6 of 7 of those games which cost us the game. That's very shabby.

And as far as clutch call it what you will so you tell me.

What does it mean to you when your QB's rating goes from a career rating of 87.1, as you pointed out to a 60.0 QB rating average in the 4th quarter in those situations? What does it mean when it goes from a 93.6 average in the first 3 quarters to a 60.0 QB rating in the 4th in those same games and he fails to get the points?

Because to me it means Cam Newton plays ok to good in the first 3 quarters and bad enough to never win a game in the 4th in those situations unless our defense gets the points for us.

Most people do consider winning drives clutch. Almost everyone considers come back wins late in the 4th clutch and credit goes to the QB, especially because most of those drives are typically passes.

[Khaki Lackey]

Anyone who's not drinking the Newton Kool Aid by this point is either a Falcon fan or needs to be sterilized.

I figure our Cam trolls here are Oregon fans.

[Pantherball]

I hope you are just trolling, otherwise I'm not sure you understand that football is a team sport. I don't think it's very fair to compare a seasoned vet with above average ability to a rookie with superior ability. You have to take into account differences in the offenses, defenses, and special teams play of each team, not just the numbers of an individual player. Experience is something that takes time to build. Just as Cam will struggle at times as to be expected from a rookie, the defense will struggle with youth and depth in making mistakes. All it takes is for one person to be out of place to give up a 3rd down keeping them on the field for a fresh set of downs.

Patience is what lacks around these forums. Hasn't anyone ever heard of good things come to those who wait? :crazy:

You're way off the mark man. You came in late in this conversation. I'm not comparing vets with Cam, they are and trying to say he's a top 5. So if you're going to make a statement as such he should be rated based on the same criteria vets and other rookies get graded by and the criteria picked to rank Cam on, hasn't led to winning consistently. And before you make statements that put my ability to understand football is a team sport and the Huddle around here, you should look around.

When we win it's Cam. When we lose it's everyone else's fault but, even though he's made the most costly mistakes. That's basically the general sentiment. You are right about one thing though: everyone that tries to point this out is generally labeled a troll.

However out of all the players on this team, Cam's impact on our losing or winning is by far the greatest, and most consistent, because he happens to be the QB, and we're a passing team. That's their job and it's the most important position.

[bigcatdaddy]

He outscored GB in garbage time when the game was lost, from a 5 point deficit in a 10-5 game in a monsoon on a team who can't score points when we get the ball midfield, and when we're up against the Redskins.

So he did it right twice and did it wrong 6 times. And I'm missing perspective?

An easier way of saying all that nonsense: Cam Newton's failed to score any points on 6 of 7 game winning or comeback drives. His only game winning drive or comeback win this year was against the Jacksonville Jaguars in a monsoon starting at the 45 yard line. This team's record is 1-7 in those situation because of this.

So Cam's failed to score on those late game drives? Have you even watched any of the games? Against GB the D gave up the play to Nelson that sealed the game, against New Orleans the D gave up a score with a minute to go and we were driving and Cam made a great throw for a first down past midfield and it was called back for holding and game over and the game yesterday Cam took us down the field and ran for a 1st down to the 2 yard line and it's called back for holding and Mare misses a chip shot and game over. But is all Cam's fault and he can't perform under pressure,:rolleyes: The only game you can put on Cam and say he didn't perform under pressure was the Atlanta game. Cam has given us a chance and had us in every game except Atlanta at the end whether it's a defensive mishap or a penalty that stops an ending drive, it has just been some bad luck.

[bigcatdaddy]

You're way off the mark man. You came in late in this conversation. I'm not comparing vets with Cam, they are and trying to say he's a top 5. So if you're going to make a statement as such he should be rated based on the same criteria vets and other rookies get graded by and the criteria picked to rank Cam on, hasn't led to winning consistently. And before you make statements that put my ability to understand football is a team sport and the Huddle around here, you should look around.

When we win it's Cam. When we lose it's everyone else's fault but, even though he's made the most costly mistakes. That's basically the general sentiment. You are right about one thing though: everyone that tries to point this out is generally labeled a troll.

However out of all the players on this team, Cam's impact on our losing or winning is by far the greatest, and most consistent, because he happens to be the QB, and we're a passing team. That's their job and it's the most important position.

Why don't you get off Cam's back, the problem is not the offense it's ranked 5th in the league while our D is 4th worst in points given up. Our 24 ppg. should be enough to win but it's not we basically have to try and win in a shootout because our D can't stop anybody. No one has said Cam is perfect but he is playing unreal for a rookie that is inaccurate, can't stand in the pocket and read defenses, and make good throws.

[CRA]

Lol you just contradicted yourself in the same post. So it matters that Brees played like a winner and did it, but it doesn't matter that Cam plummeted and couldn't do it?

And that TD was a result of a third quarter drive that spilled over in the 4th quarter. There was 12:32 left to play and our offense had 2 more tries. So basically you excuse Cam Newton from not being able to get us a comeback win or or tie(only needed 3 points to tie), but blame the defense for not stopping Drew Brees and the Saints for 12:32 in the 4th quarter.

Which one makes more sense? That I expect my offense to score something in the 4th quarter with 12:32 left to play in a 3 point game, or that you expect defenses to stop Drew Brees and the Saints from scoring any points in the 4th quarter with 12:32 to play?

Which one happens more often in the REAL world? Can I ask you a question: how many NFL teams have prevented the Saints from scoring points in the 4th quarter this year?

Brees had the opportunity......Cam didn't. Opportunity was for the Carolina defense to make a stop.

point was you counted that game as an opportunity for Cam to have a game winning drive. Opportunity was only there for Brees.

Saints took the lead w/ 50 seconds left in the game . In the 2nd half prior to Brees comeback drive leaving only 50 seconds on the clock.....the offense only had 1 drive they didn't score on and it wasn't a 3 and out.

[Marguide]

No no no. Cam's not over rated. He's over-hyped. He's creditted with things he simply should not be yet because he has not accomplished them or rating him on choice criteria that makes him look good.

No one here is rating Cam Newton on things that actually matter:

1. QB rating

2. Completion %

3. Wining record

4. Yards

5. TD's/Int Ratio

6. Clutch(i.e. 4th quarter, comeback wins, etc)

etc.

Here you go again.

1) QB rating 87.1

2) Comp % 60.6

3) Wins 2-6

4) Yards 2,393

5) TD/Int 11 to 9 plus 7 rushing TD's

6) Clutch(i.e. 4th quarter, comeback wins, etc) don't know your definition but his 4th qtr rating is 84.4 and it jumps to 89 when we are down by 7 points or less.

7) My addition, QB's that have produced more TD's than Cam: 3 (Rodgers, Brees, and Stafford)

Okay, now what else do you want to talk about? How he performs when it is below 60 degrees or when there is a wind out of the northwest?

No one is saying he is perfect or has no room to improve. All I know is there is no single player in the NFL that I would trade him for at this moment, all factors being considered. What else can you ask for?

[Pantherball]

So Cam's failed to score on those late game drives? Have you even watched any of the games? Against GB the D gave up the play to Nelson that sealed the game, against New Orleans the D gave up a score with a minute to go and we were driving and Cam made a great throw for a first down past midfield and it was called back for holding and game over and the game yesterday Cam took us down the field and ran for a 1st down to the 2 yard line and it's called back for holding and Mare misses a chip shot and game over. But is all Cam's fault and he can't perform under pressure,:rolleyes: The only game you can put on Cam and say he didn't perform under pressure was the Atlanta game. Cam has given us a chance and had us in every game except Atlanta at the end whether it's a defensive mishap or a penalty that stops an ending drive, it has just been some bad luck.

Yes dude, have you? And I'm not saying he can't but he hasn't done it yet. Bad luck my ass. Bad luck doesn't happen 14 times in a row.

He has had 14 offensive possessions to try to put the game away so far this year with the game tied or losing by 7 points or less in the 4th quarter.

14 tries and he's succeeded 1 time. And the 1 time in Jacksonville when starting at the 45 yard line after a good special team return. Defense has nothing to do with this at this point. Because no matter what the defense does, you CAN'T WIN without getting those points.

So when we are in a tied or behind game in the 4th quarter Cam Newton has a 7% chance of getting the game winning points. He is 0.0% when having to go full field.

You are fine with that? Then you are fan of losing.

[frash.exe]

[bold] nothing nothing zero nothing [/bold]

[CRA]

since Cam has LITERALLY put this team on his back every week....now people think perfection is what he should be doing if worth a damn to get a win. Retarded logic.

Perfection isn't going to happen....even with a great rookie QB. It rarely happens with HOF caliber QBs. Cam isn't getting help from the O and ST. That is why we are losing. Get improved play from those units and the wins will come.

we potentially have the worst defense AND special teams in the NFL. Cam isn't the reason we are losing. You won't get near perfect games from the QB. Not when asking them to do so much. That is what is required....or meeting just a flat out horrible team.

[Pantherball]

Here you go again.

1) QB rating 87.1

2) Comp % 60.6

3) Wins 2-6

4) Yards 2,393

5) TD/Int 11 to 9 plus 7 rushing TD's

6) Clutch(i.e. 4th quarter, comeback wins, etc) don't know your definition but his 4th qtr rating is 84.4 and it jumps to 89 when we are down by 7 points or less.

Okay, now what else do you want to talk about? How he performs when it is below 60 degrees or when there is a wind out of the northwest?

No one is saying he is perfect or has no room to improve. All I know is there is no single player in the NFL that I would trade him for at this moment, all factors being considered. What else can you ask for?

Wrong! You are mixing numbers and are using something different than what we were just talking about. You are using his total 4th quarter rating, 89, including garbage time when the game is lost or when we are up. We were talking about comeback wins or game winning drives. His QB rating when tied or down in the 4th quarter and trying to win the game is 60.0 NOT 89.

His Garbage time rating is 102.0 in the 4th quarter. That's when we can no longer win the game if we score. At this point we're losing by 8 or more.

But why is he an 89.6 in the first 3 quarters, 60.0 in a tied or close game in the 4th quarter before the game is out of reach and 102 after the game is lost? What do you attribute that to?

Why out of 14 offensive possession in the 4th quarter he only succeeded 1 time?

So talk about that. Or if you don't want to talk about it at least do yourself a favor and acknowledge it!

[Shaqil915]

Yes dude, have you? And I'm not saying he can't but he hasn't done it yet. Bad luck my ass. Bad luck doesn't happen 14 times in a row.

He has had 14 offensive possessions to try to put the game away so far this year with the game tied or losing by 7 points or less in the 4th quarter.

14 tries and he's succeeded 1 time. And the 1 time in Jacksonville when starting at the 45 yard line after a good special team return. Defense has nothing to do with this at this point. Because no matter what the defense does, you CAN'T WIN without getting those points.

So when we are in a tied or behind game in the 4th quarter Cam Newton has a 7% chance of getting the game winning points. He is 0.0% when having to go full field.

You are fine with that? Then you are fan of losing.

I don't know what's more sad. The fact that people actually try to argue with you and get trolled or the amount of time and energy you actually put into your posts to troll people.

Is it really worth it?

[CRA]

Wrong! You are mixing numbers and are using something different than what we were just talking about. You are using his total 4th quarter rating, 89, including garbage time when the game is lost or when we are up. We were talking about comeback wins or game winning drives. His QB rating when tied or down in the 4th quarter and trying to win the game is 60.0 NOT 89.

His Garbage time rating is 102.0 in the 4th quarter. That's when we can no longer win the game if we score. At this point we're losing by 8 or more.

But why is he an 89.6 in the first 3 quarters, 60.0 in a tied or close game in the 4th quarter before the game is out of reach and 102 after the game is lost? What do you attribute that to?

Why out of 14 offensive possession in the 4th quarter he only succeeded 1 time?

So talk about that. Or if you don't want to talk about it at least do yourself a favor and acknowledge it!

where are your stats from

[Stroupe-a-loop]

Wrong! You are mixing numbers and are using something different than what we were just talking about. You are using his total 4th quarter rating, 89, including garbage time when the game is lost or when we are up. We were talking about comeback wins or game winning drives. His QB rating when tied or down in the 4th quarter and trying to win the game is 60.0 NOT 89.

His Garbage time rating is 102.0 in the 4th quarter. That's when we can no longer win the game if we score. At this point we're losing by 8 or more.

But why is he an 89.6 in the first 3 quarters, 60.0 in a tied or close game in the 4th quarter before the game is out of reach and 102 after the game is lost? What do you attribute that to?

Why out of 14 offensive possession in the 4th quarter he only succeeded 1 time?

So talk about that. Or if you don't want to talk about it at least do yourself a favor and acknowledge it!

So the drive in the Saints game with 40 seconds left definitely counts, but the drive in the Greenbay game to make it a 3 point game with the possibility of an onside kick and nearly the same amount of time left doesn't count.

You just keep spinning these stats all you want. Just make sure to use the cutoffs to make it as bad as possible.

Cam could play better in some spots, but he has been incredible for a rookie and you really have to look for someone else to play better if you want to win a lot right now. I don't think he is going to become 04 Peyton Manning this year.