Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.

[CRA]

hmmm, we're #5 in total first downs, #2 in rushing first downs, #8 in passing first downs, tied for 6-8th in 3rd down conversions, 9th in 3rd down conversion %

and #2 in the league in penalties and penalized yardage behind only oakland

cam has had 500 yards and 5 tds called back this season for things he had nothing to do with

Redzone. No QB has gotten into the redzone more than Cam.

His redzone / TD conversion percentage ain't good enough for me to have him in the top 5. Gotta turn more of those into TDs. Not a top 5 until he gets better down there.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

i expect him to struggle a little bit with a compressed field, but in reality he's done a lot better than i ever expected

[JawnyBlaze]

His redzone / TD conversion percentage ain't good enough for me to have him in the top 5. Gotta turn more of those into TDs. Not a top 5 until he gets better down there.

That has a lot to do with the last sentence in the post before yours. Just two easy examples off the top of my head are yesterday's phantom holding on Smitty and the phantom PI on Shockey against the Bears. Combine with the legitimate penalties like the numerous false starts in the redzone by Bell and Gross, things are just working against Cam in the redzone that are outside of his control. He definitely has room for improvement in this area, but redzone performance is something that will improve with experience.

[dpm0409]

How do I give pie to people because I want this man here to have a piece of my pie.:o

Gotta have a certain number of posts first I believe and I def. agree on his post being Pie worthy. Handed out a slice myself :thumbsup:

[Pantherball]

essentially all there is to your posting.

No no no. Cam's not over rated. He's over-hyped. He's creditted with things he simply should not be yet because he has not accomplished them or rating him on choice criteria that makes him look good.

No one here is rating Cam Newton on things that actually matter:

1. QB rating

2. Completion %

3. Wining record

4. Yards

5. TD's/Int Ratio

6. Clutch(i.e. 4th quarter, comeback wins, etc)

etc.

This is what QB's in the NFL get primarily rated by, rookies and vets alike, and everyone may not agree on the exact order. This is what this entire forum would be talking about if we were winning. As it stands everyone is "rating" Cam Newton based on criteria that makes him look good:

1. Swag

2. Yards

3. Popularity

4. QB rushing ability.

5. Size

That is honestly the reality right now in the media and here. So who is being "selective"? Who's drinking the juice? This is yet another case of my being realistic while a bunch of people are overly optimistic like they were with Clausen, and think I'm hating. I'm not. Cam Newton's certainly changing the way we rate QB's, and he's excelling as a rookie in some categories, but so far he hasn't proven this new "rating" scheme translates to actual wins on the field. The only thing that gets you top 5 in is spotlight, TV coverage, and winning the hearts and minds(brainwashing) of fans. Meanwhile even rookie QB's that are excelling or at least have passing grades in all areas of important QB criteria, that have been around and used for generations, are winning. Cam's only excelling in 1 of them: yards. And if you could put a number on leadership, you could say he's been a good leader on offense, but his leadership has failed him and this team in the 4th quarter, which is when it matters most and has caused us to lose a bunch of games. In every other category he's either ok, or bad.

We need to win bad because losing is making too many people lose their football common sense. And anyone else that tries to have a realistic discussion about Cam Newton is labeled a hater because Cam Newton doesn't look good in some of those.

[Camdemonium]

so Hoge was an idiot a couple weeks ago...now smart?

Cam is a GREAT rookie. I personally have never seen a rookie QB this good from a individual stand point.

Sky is the limit.

As of right now....you can't put him ahead of someone like Phillip Rivers. A slow start by Rivers doesn't make his body of work in the NFL void.

You are so luck you still get to post here :)

The NFL is about what you are doing now. Peyton Manning is historically a top 3 quarterback. Right now he is not in the top 32. Right now statistically Newton is a top 5 quarterback. If you want to add some intelligence to your posts and have people actual listen to you at least consider adding facts like his lack of 4th quarter comebacks compared to other top 10 quarterbacks, etc. Otherwise you have nothing.

The problem with this is that at one point Derek Anderson would be considered a top 5 QB? You have to take more than stats into it. I know you guys hate watching football games and love fantasy football and he's been great for that, but the game is more than stats.

Derek Anderson was an elite QB, got replaced by Brady Quinn, who is now 3rd string behind The Golden Calf of Bristol and Kyle Orton.

#Perspective

[Stroupe-a-loop]

So who is being "selective"?

. . . You? I mean have you seen the ridiculous cherry picked stats you have trotted out to call the guy a choker?

[Riverboat Ron]

What's scary is that Newton isn't even close to his potential. Imagine when we get Beason back and add a few more parts over the next few years. The more video I watched on Newton before the draft, the more I liked what he could bring to the Panthers. He's improved so much in such a short time not only due to his acceptance of teaching and hard work, but to his rocket of an arm, natural release and improving accuracy. To top it off he's exactly what you want as a leader of your offense, he'll soon be wearing a "C" on his right shoulder. :)

[rayzor]

i love those random bolded words.

[CRA]

No no no. Cam's not over rated. He's over-hyped. He's creditted with things he simply should not be yet because he has not accomplished them or rating him on choice criteria that makes him look good.

No one here is rating Cam Newton on things that actually matter:

1. QB rating

2. Completion %

3. Wining record

4. Yards

5. TD's/Int Ratio

6. Clutch(i.e. 4th quarter, comeback wins, etc)

etc.

This is what QB's in the NFL get primarily rated by, rookies and vets alike, and everyone may not agree on the exact order. This is what this entire forum would be talking about if we were winning. As it stands everyone is "rating" Cam Newton based on criteria that makes him look good:

1. Swag

2. Yards

3. Popularity

4. QB rushing ability.

5. Size

That is honestly the reality right now in the media and here. So who is being "selective"? Who's drinking the juice? This is yet another case of my being realistic while a bunch of people are overly optimistic like they were with Clausen, and think I'm hating. I'm not. Cam Newton's certainly changing the way we rate QB's, and he's excelling as a rookie in some categories, but so far he hasn't proven this new "rating" scheme translates to actual wins on the field. The only thing that gets you top 5 in is spotlight, TV coverage, and winning the hearts and minds(brainwashing) of fans. Meanwhile even rookie QB's that are excelling or at least have passing grades in all areas of important QB criteria, that have been around and used for generations, are winning. Cam's only excelling in 1 of them: yards. And if you could put a number on leadership, you could say he's been a good leader on offense, but his leadership has failed him and this team in the 4th quarter, which is when it matters most and has caused us to lose a bunch of games. In every other category he's either ok, or bad.

We need to win bad because losing is making too many people lose their football common sense. And anyone else that tries to have a realistic discussion about Cam Newton is labeled a hater because Cam Newton doesn't look good in some of those.

eh, I think people are jumping the gun but I disagree with your ranks.

For example...

comp % and wins. Bradford was better in those 2 categories at this point in the season last year.....and he was NOT better. B/c your total eval of important vs. less important Bradford would have been "better".

wins - too much emphasis usually on this when grading a QB....team sport. Too many outside factors/players influence the end result.

comp % - Cam has a very good comp % considering the throws he is making. Compare him to Bradford again last year, he dink and dunked all over the field. Cam airs it out more than any QB in the entire NFL. Got to look at more than the numbers. Numbers aren't always legitimately an apples to apples comparison

also, you are dimissing his rushing ablity....that would be like ignoring what Matt Forte does in the receiving game. it matters.

Cam is not a top 5 QB....but your list of how to tell what is what if too flawed.

[Pantherball]

. . . You? I mean have you seen the ridiculous cherry picked stats you have trotted out to call the guy a choker?

Who is cherry picking a stat? 4th quarter comebacks? You don't think that's important when we have lost 6 out of our 7 games when we were down by 7 or less in the 4th quarter?

How delusional can you get?

That's not cherry picking. That's reality that you don't want to face. This offense has NOT closed games all year. Period. Cam Newton's leadership has gone away in the 4th quarter. His playing level drops when the pressure is on.

Again: R E A L I T Y! Face it.

[CRA]

You are so luck you still get to post here :)

well, I guess it is good for me you don't have a pair and backed out of your bet.

[Pantherball]

eh, I think people are jumping the gun but I disagree with your ranks.

For example...

comp % and wins. Bradford was better in those 2 categories at this point in the season last year.....and he was NOT better. B/c your total eval of important vs. less important Bradford would have been "better".

wins - too much emphasis usually on this when grading a QB....team sport. Too many outside factors/players influence the end result.

comp % - Cam has a very good comp % considering the throws he is making. Compare him to Bradford again last year, he dink and dunked all over the field. Cam airs it out more than any QB in the entire NFL. Got to look at more than the numbers. Numbers aren't always legitimately an apples to apples comparison

also, you are dimissing his rushing ablity....that would be like ignoring what Matt Forte does in the receiving game. it matters.

You continue to prove my point: Your goal is to dismiss the criteria because he doesn't live up to them and you are using 1 rookie example that he compares favorably to which bears nothing. Compare him to all NFL QB's or rookies using those statistics.

I'm not dismissing his rushing stats. They're important but they are not one of the top 5 categories a QB is primarily rated on.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

Who is cherry picking a stat? 4th quarter comebacks? You don't think that's important when we have lost 6 out of our 7 games when we were down by 7 or less in the 4th quarter?

How delusional can you get?

That's not cherry picking. That's reality that you don't want to face. This offense has NOT closed games all year. Period. Cam Newton's leadership has gone away in the 4th quarter. His playing level drops when the pressure is on.

Again: R E A L I T Y! Face it.

Look man, if you want to say he is not a top 5 or 10 quarterback because he isn't constantly leading fourth quarter comebacks, that's fine. Quite reasonable. But if you want to say he is a choker because he isn't pulling off the legendary 4th quarter magic of Elway in his prime during his first 8 starts, you are seriously a moron. There's a reason that leading a game winning drive is such a big deal and that's because it's hard. And like I've said, I don't think it has a ton to do with his leadership or the fact that the emotional pressure is too severe, it mostly has to do with the fact that he struggles in the redzone like most young quarterbacks. Even great ones.