Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.

[The Faceless]

Figured this poo thread is as good a place as any...how can I go about embedding youtube vids in my posts? I'm about to be up in this with some death metal spammage.

[carpanfan96]

It's [*yt*] code [*/yt*] with out the asterisks. Can we get a mod to approve this for gif bombing, this has gone on long enough. lol

[The Faceless]

[teeray]

It is not the defense's responsibility to get field position. It's the special teams. Teams don't go for it on 4th down on every play. They usually punt on the 4th. A top 10 defense doesn't get you any better field position than a 32nd ranked defense. A top ranked special teams unit might.

Because they have an efficient offense, not because they don't have a top 10 defense. Jaguars, Cleveland, Cowboys have top 10 offenses and the Eagles are ranked 11th. Yet they all have losing records. Why?

Because they all have inefficient offenses, last in the NFL, just like us. But you are right about one thing though, the Eagles and Panthers, as well as the Cowboys, have a lot more in common than you think.

Because you are only looking at turnovers, not turnover margin. Both Atlanta and Tampa have a positive turnover margin. Both Pittsburg and San Diego have a top 10 defenses and negative turnover margins. By your own admission you just listed 2 teams with more turn overs than us and a worse negative turnover margin with top 10 defenses.

Tampa bay has a positive turnover margin and have a 29th ranked defense. So does Atlanta(18th ranked). Because there is no correlation between a positive turnover margin and field position and a top 10 defense. None. Tampa has a 29th ranked defense and have positive turn over margin. So how is it that Tampa's 29th ranked defense overcomes their offenses turnovers and has a positive turnover margin while Pitsburg's 2nd best defense has the worst turnover margin in the NFL? Ever ask yourself that? No?

Because there is also no correlation between a top 10 defense and winning. There is a correlation between an inefficient offense, a negative turnover margin and losing. There are only two teams in the NFL that have an inefficient offense, and negative turnover margin with a winning record. Steelers and Chargers. So why is it that teams with negative turnover margins and inefficient offenses like Pittsburg and the San Diego have winning records while teams like the Eagles, Cowboys, and Panthers don't?

This is complete and utter nonsense. :lol:

Firstly, defense absolutely plays a part in field position. Even more so than special teams. If you get a three and out or a turnover chances are you will have pretty good field position. If you let them move to mid field before they punt or allow them to score you are going to have pooty field position. That is pretty basic stuff.

Secondly, what you are saying is that the teams with more turnovers and a winning record actually have defenses that either also turn the ball over or have overall good defenses and therefore that is why they win games. Isn't that my entire point??

Turnover margin isn't just a reflection on the offense. If the defense created more turnovers like the Falcons and Tampa Bay we would have a winning record.

Again that is my entire point. I am not sure what you were trying to prove there :nonod:

[The_Mango55]

It is not the defense's responsibility to get field position. It's the special teams. Teams don't go for it on 4th down on every play. They usually punt on the 4th. A top 10 defense doesn't get you any better field position than a 32nd ranked defense. A top ranked special teams unit might.

Wha? You realize teams have to punt the ball from the point where they are stopped, correct? If you're stopped on your own 20 you're not likely to pin your opponent inside the 10 yard line.

Because they have an efficient offense, not because they don't have a top 10 defense. Jaguars, Cleveland, Cowboys have top 10 offenses and the Eagles are ranked 11th. Yet they all have losing records. Why?

Oh now I see why your argument looks so completely retarded, you must be getting your stats from the wrong place. Jaguars and Browns have two of the WORST offenses in the NFL, in fact Jacksonville is dead last.

Because you are only looking at turnovers, not turnover margin. Both Atlanta and Tampa have a positive turnover margin. Both Pittsburg and San Diego have a top 10 defenses and negative turnover margins. By your own admission you just listed 2 teams with more turn overs than us and a worse negative turnover margin with top 10 defenses.

Because their defense gets turnovers. How can you be dumb enough to not realize this.

Tampa bay has a positive turnover margin and have a 29th ranked defense. So does Atlanta(18th ranked). Because there is no correlation between a positive turnover margin and field position and a top 10 defense. None. Tampa has a 29th ranked defense and have positive turn over margin. So how is it that Tampa's 29th ranked defense overcomes their offenses turnovers and has a positive turnover margin while Pitsburg's 2nd best defense has the worst turnover margin in the NFL? Ever ask yourself that? No?

That's easy, some teams like to gamble, play a "bend not break" defense and try to get interceptions. Other teams like to play smash mouth "don't even bend" defense. Panthers play the not as popular "snap like a twig" defense.

Because there is also no correlation between a top 10 defense and winning. There is a correlation between an inefficient offense, a negative turnover margin and losing. There are only two teams in the NFL that have an inefficient offense, and negative turnover margin with a winning record. Steelers and Chargers. So why is it that teams with negative turnover margins and inefficient offenses like Pittsburg and the San Diego have winning records while teams like the Eagles, Cowboys, and Panthers don't?

I'll let you think about that(Hint: QB)...

The chargers have a winning record because they have played a bunch of bad teams so far. Rivers is a great QB but not this year. The Steelers have a winning record because they are just good. They have a good defense and a good offense.

I can't tell what your overall argument is, it seems like you're trying to say that defense isn't important but that would be the most absolutely retarded staement anyone has ever made about football. But it's all I see in this post.

[bauss]

Anyone have a link tothe kurt warner segment??

nevermind found it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d823b8e28/Warner-s-top-5-QBs

[mav1234]

It is not the defense's responsibility to get field position. It's the special teams. Teams don't go for it on 4th down on every play. They usually punt on the 4th. A top 10 defense doesn't get you any better field position than a 32nd ranked defense. A top ranked special teams unit might.

1) A good defense often will pin opponents deep or prevent flipping the field, which usually leads to shorter fields for the offense.

2) Even all that aside, when did Cam Newton start playing on special teams? How is it his fault at all?

Most all of us have said that it's not just the defense that needs to improve, but special teams, too. That's not to say the offense is perfect - nobody is saying it is - but the idea that it is the main problem on this team is beyond ridiculous.

also did you just say the jags and browns have top 10 offenses?

[teeray]

Important defensive statistics in which we rank at or near the bottom:

Interceptions: 26

Rushing yards per attempt against: 24

Rushing TDs given up: 32

Rushing yards against: 29

Rushing yards per game: 29

Opponents rushing attempts against our defense: 31

First downs given up: 26

First downs given up by run: 31

Defensive third down percentage: 31

Defensive penalty yards: 26

Number of defensive touchdowns: 0 (1 of only 10 teams this season not to have a defensive TD)

So tell me how that is on the offense again??

[Pantherball]

Important defensive statistics in which we rank at or near the bottom:

Interceptions: 26

Rushing yards per attempt against: 24

Rushing TDs given up: 32

Rushing yards against: 29

Rushing yards per game: 29

Opponents rushing attempts against our defense: 31

First downs given up: 26

First downs given up by run: 31

Defensive third down percentage: 31

Defensive penalty yards: 26

Number of defensive touchdowns: 0 (1 of only 10 teams this season not to have a defensive TD)

So tell me how that is on the offense again??

Because we were in 7 of 8 games tied or down in the 4th quarter, had 14 game winning drives opportunities, and have a 7% efficiency ratio?

I know what our rushing statistics are defensively, but our defense is ranked 17th in total yards. Because we have a top 10 defense in passing passing offense in a passing league.

So we are bad at the rush, and great at the pass. Which is to our advantage. It would be worse if it was the other way around. Teeray I think it's time you learned a lesson in how to read and use rankings correctly and logically. Cause you have no idea what you are doing.

[Pantherball]

1) A good defense often will pin opponents deep or prevent flipping the field, which usually leads to shorter fields for the offense.

2) Even all that aside, when did Cam Newton start playing on special teams? How is it his fault at all?

Most all of us have said that it's not just the defense that needs to improve, but special teams, too. That's not to say the offense is perfect - nobody is saying it is - but the idea that it is the main problem on this team is beyond ridiculous.

also did you just say the jags and browns have top 10 offenses?

Who said it was Cam Newton's fault that our offense isn't getting good field position. It is Cam Newton's fault why other offenses are getting great field position giving them great field position against our defense.

Why do so many people have logically backwards statements? I can't prove to you that this offense is the main problem on this team. I can prove to you that this offense is the main problem when it comes to winning us the game, and that the one person who's had more to do with that than anyone else, is Cam Newton, our rookie QB. In fact I already have, more than once.

[Pantherball]

This is complete and utter nonsense. :lol:

Firstly, defense absolutely plays a part in field position. Even more so than special teams. If you get a three and out or a turnover chances are you will have pretty good field position. If you let them move to mid field before they punt or allow them to score you are going to have pooty field position. That is pretty basic stuff.

Secondly, what you are saying is that the teams with more turnovers and a winning record actually have defenses that either also turn the ball over or have overall good defenses and therefore that is why they win games. Isn't that my entire point??

Turnover margin isn't just a reflection on the offense. If the defense created more turnovers like the Falcons and Tampa Bay we would have a winning record.

Again that is my entire point. I am not sure what you were trying to prove there :nonod:

Really so the other team's kicker has NOTHING to do with it? Interesting.

And if it's pretty basic stuff, why don't you get basic stuff like in a tied or game down by 7 or less it's the offenses responsibility to put the game away? Because a defense can't win the game unless they score for the offense.

You get basic stuff, so why do you continue to ignore this?

And the other part is not only verbally incorrect, but wrong. Just plain false. And like I said. I'm going to prove it to you.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

probably because we have a rookie qb you inbred

[Pantherball]

Wha? You realize teams have to punt the ball from the point where they are stopped, correct? If you're stopped on your own 20 you're not likely to pin your opponent inside the 10 yard line.

Oh now I see why your argument looks so completely retarded, you must be getting your stats from the wrong place. Jaguars and Browns have two of the WORST offenses in the NFL, in fact Jacksonville is dead last.

Because their defense gets turnovers. How can you be dumb enough to not realize this.

That's easy, some teams like to gamble, play a "bend not break" defense and try to get interceptions. Other teams like to play smash mouth "don't even bend" defense. Panthers play the not as popular "snap like a twig" defense.

The chargers have a winning record because they have played a bunch of bad teams so far. Rivers is a great QB but not this year. The Steelers have a winning record because they are just good. They have a good defense and a good offense.

I can't tell what your overall argument is, it seems like you're trying to say that defense isn't important but that would be the most absolutely retarded staement anyone has ever made about football. But it's all I see in this post.

Obviously I meant defenses. It was an honest mistake, and you should have picked that up if you weren't so ready to call me an dumb because Jaguars, Cleveland, Cowboys have top 10 defenses and the Eagles are ranked 11th.

And no my argument is not that defenses are not important, my argument is I am now fully convinced neither you, nor teeray, and perhaps not even mav actually understand the relationship between turnovers, offenses, defenses rankings, how to read them and when they point to a bad defense or a bad offense.

But I am going to explain some things if you stop calling me an idiot or dumb and you just try being a little bit more nice. I answered some of those question in some of teeray's post because you guys have the same points.

[Pantherball]

probably because we have a rookie qb you inbred

Why are you telling me this? I already know that's the reason why we are losing. So take your misplaced trash talk to who it belongs or if I were you, I would just never post again if that's how you talk.