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Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.


micnificent28

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Yeah I remember the 2003 season and Cardiac Cats moniker. I also remember that being the high water mark of that regime before it thoroughly crashed and burned a few years later.

Why because we got used to going up first in games on the back of a ST's kicker, winning by big scores on the back of a running game and when we found ourselves in a grinder, where we had to come back from behind, we panicked as early as the 2nd quarter. We not only forgot how to do that, but we also forgot who were were and what got us there that year and started asking a QB to do something he had not done all year.

And it's pretty typical of the problem with this franchise. That was the only year we were expected to win. We had the home field advantage. We have never been very good at winning when we have everyone behind us. We have never been good at handling the fame and winning the expected game.

Cam Newton is supposed to be fixing that, but that moniker has continued this year. We were expected to win the Vikings games at home against a rookie with less playing experience than ours. We couldn't handle it. We almost blew the Jaguars game and I feel the rain was a blessing in disguise for us.

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Way to argue a losing playoff record. It's still a losing playoff record. It's still underperfoming.

Same story. Excusing losing. This is becoming so typical. This is what I'm hearing around here: "I don't mind losing."

If we had 35 winning seasons and we only won 1 Superbowl you would be happy?

Exactly what losing playoff record did I make mention of? I simply said 1 Superbowl win in 11 winning seasons is still a Superbowl win so it's something to be proud of. If you are referring to Manning's record, you made mention of that, no where did I say anything about it. Reading comprehension is key.

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This is complete and utter bullsh*t and you constantly repeat it.

So lets talk about this. I agree with you that our offense has turned the ball over too much. Lets get that out of the way first. We are in agreement on that.

However where I disagree with you is when you say that our offense has been the reason our defense has struggled.

If you look at all those games in the vast majority of those games we have had 1 turnover or less. In the Atlanta game only one turnover had any negative effect on our defense (please note I am not saying it did not have any effect on the outcome of the game. Just how it pertains to our defense)

So I will concede the Green Bay and Minnesota games. Our offense put us in some tough situations in those games (although they also put us in situations to win both games)

Since we are talking about how turnovers have negatively effected our defense I will remove the Washington and Jaguars game since we had no turnovers (although it is important to note that we forced three turnovers in the Washington game. Had none of our own and still gave up 20 points :eek:)

So that leaves us with New Orleans (1 turnover), Arizona (1 turnover), Atlanta (1 turnover as it pertains to the defense), and Chicago (1 turnover)

Okay so now lets look at how many points those teams scored:

Arizona: 28

Chicago: 34

New Orleans: 30

Atlanta: 31

That is an average of @31 (30.75 to be exact) points per game.

You can make no compelling argument that the defense and special teams played well enough to win those games. None.

You cannot try to give the defense credit for keeping us in the game heading into the 4th quarter without giving even more credit to our offense for keeping pace.

You cannot make a compelling argument that 1 turnover makes it okay to give up 31 point a game.

And that is why I have a big issue with this whole argument. Our defense and special teams has not been good enough to win even on the days where our offense has been good enough to win.

You talk about pressure situations as a measuring gauge for our offense but our defense also at times need to rise to the occasion. When we give up short fields it shouldn't be an automatic touchdown. Hold them to field goals every once in a while and we start winning games.

Those are the facts. Simple and plain :cam:. There are only two games that you could make the case that our offense put our defense in incredibly tough situations.

I will get back to this argument later cause I wanna pull up some real facts and it's going to take me some time. But all I wanna say to this argument...in Atlanta we threw a pick at the top of the 4th quarter in a tied game. We crumbled as a team after.

Against the Bears we had a pick 6. The other team scored 6 points directly against our offense, not defense. We lost the game by 5.

Against the Saints we had a pick on the 2nd play of the game in our own territory giving away the lead early. Our coach gave 3 free points away. We lost the game by 3.

And Arizona...defense let us down there, sure, but it ended with 9 tries from beginning at the 17 yard line, in the red-zone, just like the Vikings. How often do offenses strike out when you have 9 tries from the 17 yard line?

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Way to argue a losing playoff record. It's still a losing playoff record. It's still underperfoming.

Same story. Excusing losing. This is becoming so typical. This is what I'm hearing around here: "I don't mind losing."

If we had 35 winning seasons and we only won 1 Superbowl you would be happy?

There are 13 out of 32 teams that have never won a Superbowl and 7 of those 19 teams that have won Superbowls have only one it once so yeah I would have to say I would be okay with 1 Superbowl.

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I will get back to this argument later cause I wanna pull up some real facts and it's going to take me some time. But all I wanna say to this argument...in Atlanta we threw a pick at the top of the 4th quarter in a tied game. We crumbled as a team after.

Against the Bears we had a pick 6. The other team scored 6 points directly against our offense, not defense. We lost the game by 5.

Against the Saints we had a pick on the 2nd play of the game in our own territory giving away the lead early. Our coach gave 3 free points away. We lost the game by 3.

And Arizona...defense let us down there, sure, but it ended with 9 tries from beginning at the 17 yard line, in the red-zone, just like the Vikings. How often do offenses strike out when you have 9 tries from the 17 yard line?

But you are missing on the larger point. You can make a far better argument that our offense put us in position to win those games in the 4th quarter than anything our defense and special teams did.

You like to focus on the fourth quarter a lot but I would contend that if the other units of our team had played better than we wouldn't have had to rely on trying to comeback or close the game out in the fourth quarter. You can't just ignore those facts. In those games we should have been running the clock out and taking a knee.

You cannot make a compelling argument that it is okay we gave up as many points as we did because of one turnover. It can't be done.

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I will get back to this argument later cause I wanna pull up some real facts and it's going to take me some time. But all I wanna say to this argument...in Atlanta we threw a pick at the top of the 4th quarter in a tied game. We crumbled as a team after.

Against the Bears we had a pick 6. The other team scored 6 points directly against our offense, not defense. We lost the game by 5.

Against the Saints we had a pick on the 2nd play of the game in our own territory giving away the lead early. Our coach gave 3 free points away. We lost the game by 3.

And Arizona...defense let us down there, sure, but it ended with 9 tries from beginning at the 17 yard line, in the red-zone, just like the Vikings. How often do offenses strike out when you have 9 tries from the 17 yard line?

You're ignoring his point. A pick 6 doesn't excuse giving up 30+ points if you're saying our defense isn't the issue.

The defense sucks and everyone knows it except you.

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Exactly what losing playoff record did I make mention of? I simply said 1 Superbowl win in 11 winning seasons is still a Superbowl win so it's something to be proud of. If you are referring to Manning's record, you made mention of that, no where did I say anything about it. Reading comprehension is key.

Yes but again, it's without taking context into consideration.

1 Superbowl in 11 years is good for anyone, except teams that have played 17 playoff games and have a losing playoff record.

I have the number 5 offense in the league in yards per game....yeah, how many points per game do they have?

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You're ignoring his point. A pick 6 doesn't excuse giving up 30+ points if you're saying our defense isn't the issue.

The defense sucks and everyone knows it except you.

So does our offense and everyone is missing this except me. Our offense SUCKS. It cannot score the points in the 4th quarter to win the close game even though it gets a lot of yards and far too many tries. There I said it. That sucks. Badly.

It can't do better than 1 out of 14 tries to win a game and that's ONLY thanks to our ST and DEFENSE getting them half field position and closing out the game for them. They can't close out a 4th quarter game. That SUCKS. They have a 7% efficiency in game winning drives when tied or down by less than a score...and we needed to do this 7 times. That SUCKS.

Begin to realize this, and we will be one step closer to agreeing.

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I will get back to this argument later cause I wanna pull up some real facts and it's going to take me some time. But all I wanna say to this argument...in Atlanta we threw a pick at the top of the 4th quarter in a tied game. We crumbled as a team after.

Against the Bears we had a pick 6. The other team scored 6 points directly against our offense, not defense. We lost the game by 5.Against the Saints we had a pick on the 2nd play of the game in our own territory giving away the lead early. Our coach gave 3 free points away. We lost the game by 3.

And Arizona...defense let us down there, sure, but it ended with 9 tries from beginning at the 17 yard line, in the red-zone, just like the Vikings. How often do offenses strike out when you have 9 tries from the 17 yard line?

We also kicked to Hester and he returned one for a TD and returned a kickoff 73 yards plus we let Forte run for 205 yards. Is all that Cam's fault?

Then let's talk about the Saints game where, like you said Rivera called a timeout and gave the Saints 3 points plus with the lead our defense lets Brees and Saints go 89 yards on 13 plays and eat up 6:16. That leaves our offense 50 seconds to get into scoring range and we get to the 50 and time runs out.

Mental errors have also cost us games, don't forget the ROOKIE head coach.

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There are 13 out of 32 teams that have never won a Superbowl and 7 of those 19 teams that have won Superbowls have only one it once so yeah I would have to say I would be okay with 1 Superbowl.

Again...out of context, or partial context. Comparing that only to losers. When you only look good against losers you are what? Mediocre!

So once again I ask you, are you ok with being mediocre? Are you fine with that?

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So does our offense and everyone is missing this except me. Our offense SUCKS. It cannot score the points in the 4th quarter to win the close game even though it gets a lot of yards and far too many tries. There I said it. That sucks. Badly.

It can't do better than 1 out of 14 tries to win a game and that's ONLY thanks to our ST and DEFENSE getting them half field position and closing out the game for them. They can't close out a 4th quarter game. That SUCKS. They have a 7% efficiency in game winning drives when tied or down by less than a score...and we needed to do this 7 times. That SUCKS.

Begin to realize this, and we will be one step closer to agreeing.

Haha, no last year our offense sucked. We have a fun exciting offense to watch this year. You sir are a complete moron/idiot.:thumbsup::D

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We also kicked to Hester and he returned one for a TD and returned a kickoff 73 yards plus we let Forte run for 205 yards. Is all that Cam's fault?

Then let's talk about the Saints game where, like you said Rivera called a timeout and gave the Saints 3 points plus with the lead our defense lets Brees and Saints go 89 yards on 13 plays and eat up 6:16. That leaves our offense 50 seconds to get into scoring range and we get to the 50 and time runs out.

Mental errors have also cost us games, don't forget the ROOKIE head coach.

Of course not. Is that defense's fault? It's ST and honestly, we already know whose fault that was as far as decision. He admitted to it. Rivera said it was on him.

Do you guys notice how I don't have a problem with giving Cam credit earned? What's earned is earned. He deserves all the credit in the world, for what he actually accomplishes. He also deserves all the blame in the world for what's directly on him.

BE FAIR!

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Again...out of context, or partial context. Comparing that only to losers. When you only look good against losers you are what? Mediocre!

So once again I ask you, are you ok with being mediocre? Are you fine with that?

There is nothing mediocre about winning a Superbowl, and yes if winning a Superbowl is mediocre I am fine with that.

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