Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.

[Pantherball]

We have what 4 winning seasons? I would take 11 winning seasons even without the Superbowl. Acting like only winning one Superbowl in 11 years isn't something to be proud of is ridiculous

Expectations. Context. This is what the problem is right now with out team too. We don't know what to expect based on our performance. We have one of the top offenses in scoring, and one of the best rookies to ever come out of college but we we still believe we should have minimum expectations.

One Superbowl appearance out of 11 when you barely make the playoffs 3 times = Good. We we 1/3 making the Superbowl once we hit the playoffs with Jake.

One Superbowl win out of 11 season when you make the playoffs 11 times = Bad(underachievers). Below average. There are at most 33 teams that you have to go through to get there. You should be there on average 3 out of 11.

. That's average. But Colts also got to skip the wildcard week a couple of times so they probably should have made it 4 times. They were only there twice. And they 1 out 2. Average. That is in line. Their playoff record says they should have been there 4 times and won 2 Superbowls. They have a losing playoff record. They are 9-10 with Peyton. Average in the NFL is still .500.

One out of 7 games where you are tied down one score or less = Bad. When you have twice as many chances first(1 out of 14 posessions) to put the game away you should be around 50% even if you are down. So at worse we should be .500 right now. Just to be in line with being average. We are underachieving based on our performance. We need to be MUCH better than 7% at putting a one score game away in the 4th quarter.

I'd shoot myself in the head if we had 11 winning seasons and only made it to the Superbowl twice. You would be happy with

Like Rivera says, it's about managing expectations. Just because we have a rookie QB, doesn't mean we should now all of a sudden by fine with 1 win, when in all reality we were in a position to at least be .500. It doesn't mean we should be lowering our expectations for comparison's sake and be content with it. Are we shooting for great, good, average or mediocre at best? Because we aren't even doing good enough to reach mediocre right now.

We have a miserable winning record for what we have been this year. Our offenses ppg is miserable for what they have been offensively this year.

PS: Our last coach set our expectations to make the Superbowl 1 time out of 3 playoff appearances and he lost his job basically because the third time we could not do any better and because we were mediocre. So CLEARLY my team's expectations are better than mediocre. We want to be better than .500.

[Pantherball]

Even the criticism of Newton is kind of amazing. AREN'T YOU GUYS AFRAID THAT HE WILL ONLY BE PEYTON MANNING AND NOT TOM BRADY!?!?!

You are smoking crack. To answer your question yes, I would not like to have Peyton's manning 8-9 playoff and Superbowl record. Tom Brady sure. 3 Superbowl rings. Would you be happy if he was Dan Marino? Because right now he's on track for that. Breaking record like a madman, but not getting us the results.

[CLTPanther]

One of you mods put this thread out of its misery

[bigcatdaddy]

You are smoking crack. To answer your question yes, I would not like to have Peyton's manning 9-8 playoff and Superbowl record. Tom Brady sure. 3 Superbowl rings. Would you be happy if he was Dan Marino? Because right now he's on track for that. Breaking record like a madman, but not getting us the results.

Wow you get even more absurd everytime you post. You wouldn't want Manning's playoff and Superbowl record? I will take one Superbowl ring, and as you can see from this season the Colts have nothing without Manning, he is the team. You are trying to put a team game squarely on the QB and what he does, you do it with Cam and you are doing it with Manning. It's a team game and many factors contribute to why Manning has just one superbowl and why Cam hasn't lead 4th quarter "comebacks" yet. I will take Payton and Cam on my teams any day and you can have Eli and Andy Dalton that is not even close.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

That's why the one thing I liked about Cam is that he mentions Brady more than Manning.

lol the one thing he likes about Cam is that he name drops Tom Brady in interviews.

What a toolbox. I agree, lock this poo.

[The_Mango55]

HEY GUYS HE'S PLAYED 8 GAMES AND STILL HASN'T MADE THE PLAYOFFS

DAN MARINO HERE WE COME

Right, Aaron Rodgers was terrible in one score games his first year as a starter, and it didn't seem to effect his career much. And he had been in the league a few years in the league before he had to start.

He still is terrible in close games. But it's not nearly as important as PF4L thinks.

[Pantherball]

Wow you get even more absurd everytime you post. You wouldn't want Manning's playoff and Superbowl record? I will take one Superbowl ring, and as you can see from this season the Colts have nothing without Manning, he is the team. You are trying to put a team game squarely on the QB and what he does, you do it with Cam and you are doing it with Manning. It's a team game and many factors contribute to why Manning has just one superbowl and why Cam hasn't lead 4th quarter "comebacks" yet. I will take Payton and Cam on my teams any day and you can have Eli and Andy Dalton that is not even close.

My dislexia got the best of me there. He's 8-9 not 9-8 so no I would not.

Because again. Based on their playoff appearance they should have been in 4 Superbowls and won 2.

That is considered average in the NFL. So no I don't want to have a winning record in the regular season, a losing record in the playoffs, and an underachieving Superbowl appearance record.

But people still love mediocrity I see.

[Pantherball]

HEY GUYS HE'S PLAYED 8 GAMES AND STILL HASN'T MADE THE PLAYOFFS

DAN MARINO HERE WE COME

He still is terrible in close games. But it's not nearly as important as PF4L thinks.

I love 10 year old Panthers fans. Maybe you were too young to remember...but we were once called the Cardiac Cats. We're still the Cardiac Cats this year.

And for the Cardiac Cats, winning close games is EVERYTHING!

[chef17]

Most QBs don't even lead their team to the playoffs 11 times so by doing that is already above average, not below.

[chef17]

I love 10 year old Panthers fans. Maybe you were too young to remember...but we were once called the Cardiac Cats. We're still the Cardiac Cats this year.

And for the Cardiac Cats, winning close games is EVERYTHING!

If winning close games is everything them please explain how we are the Cardiac Cats when we lost most close games.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Yeah I remember the 2003 season and Cardiac Cats moniker. I also remember that being the high water mark of that regime before it thoroughly crashed and burned a few years later.

[Pantherball]

Most QBs don't even lead their team to the playoffs 11 times so by doing that is already above average, not below.

Way to argue a losing playoff record. It's still a losing playoff record. It's still underperfoming.

Same story. Excusing losing. This is becoming so typical. This is what I'm hearing around here: "I don't mind losing."

If we had 35 winning seasons and we only won 1 Superbowl you would be happy?

[bigcatdaddy]

I love 10 year old Panthers fans. Maybe you were too young to remember...but we were once called the Cardiac Cats. We're still the Cardiac Cats this year.

And for the Cardiac Cats, winning close games is EVERYTHING!

But we have been in every game with our tough schedule, playing a ROOKIE quarterback, with one of the worst defenses in the league, and the worst special teams in the league. Would I like to win more games? Hell yes but you have to look at what we are playing with the D lost 3 starters up the middle and we are ranked 28th in the league in points allowed. You throw in we have the Worst special teams in the league and it's amazing that we are even in any of these games and it's because of how good the offense has been.

[teeray]

3.Why are we really down in every game in the 4th quarter? Should the defense have more takeaways? Absolutely. They should. But the reason we have a negative turn-over margin is because our offense is giving up more turn-overs than they can make up for them. The reason we are down is an offensive issue first. Should we try to have a top 2-3 defense. Of course. Can the defense get better? Of course, and they will when we get some of our top guys back, but the D has not had an issue giving our team more offensive positions than the other and put them in a position to be in a tie game or down by one score in the 4th. And they gave the offense 2 possessions PER 4th quarter while maintaining a one score game/U]. That is a WIN for the defense in the NFL. The offense blew it. Not the defense. Why does his 4th quarter QB rating drop to 60.0 or under in comeback wins or game winning drives?

This is complete and utter bullsh*t and you constantly repeat it.

Arizona game: There was an interception at midfield in the third quarter. Final opponents point total: 28

Green Bay: 4 turnovers. You have a pretty strong case for this game.

Jacksonville: 0 turnovers Monsoon game, by far our defenses only good game. opponents point total: 10

Chicago: 1 turnover Cam Newton threw a pick six in the 1st quarter. Final opponents point total: 34

New Orleans: 1 turnover. Cam threw a pick that gave a pretty short field to our defense. Final opponents point total: 30

Atlanta: Cam threw 3 picks. However, 2 of them were at the end of each respective half and had no bearing on our defense. Final opponent point total: 31

Washington: 0 tunovers defense caused three turnovers Final opponent point total: 20

Minnesota: Two fumbles gave up short field. You have a pretty good case for this game. Our defense actually played pretty well in this game. final opponent point total: 24

So lets talk about this. I agree with you that our offense has turned the ball over too much. Lets get that out of the way first. We are in agreement on that.

However where I disagree with you is when you say that our offense has been the reason our defense has struggled.

If you look at all those games in the vast majority of those games we have had 1 turnover or less. In the Atlanta game only one turnover had any negative effect on our defense (please note I am not saying it did not have any effect on the outcome of the game. Just how it pertains to our defense)

So I will concede the Green Bay and Minnesota games. Our offense put us in some tough situations in those games (although they also put us in situations to win both games)

Since we are talking about how turnovers have negatively effected our defense I will remove the Washington and Jaguars game since we had no turnovers (although it is important to note that we forced three turnovers in the Washington game. Had none of our own and still gave up 20 points :eek:)

So that leaves us with New Orleans (1 turnover), Arizona (1 turnover), Atlanta (1 turnover as it pertains to the defense), and Chicago (1 turnover)

Okay so now lets look at how many points those teams scored:

Arizona: 28

Chicago: 34

New Orleans: 30

Atlanta: 31

That is an average of @31 (30.75 to be exact) points per game.

You can make no compelling argument that the defense and special teams played well enough to win those games. None.

You cannot try to give the defense credit for keeping us in the game heading into the 4th quarter without giving even more credit to our offense for keeping pace.

You cannot make a compelling argument that 1 turnover makes it okay to give up 31 point a game.

And that is why I have a big issue with this whole argument. Our defense and special teams has not been good enough to win even on the days where our offense has been good enough to win.

You talk about pressure situations as a measuring gauge for our offense but our defense also at times need to rise to the occasion. When we give up short fields it shouldn't be an automatic touchdown. Hold them to field goals every once in a while and we start winning games.

Those are the facts. Simple and plain :cam:. There are only two games that you could make the case that our offense put our defense in incredibly tough situations.